Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Wednesday, 2014-10-08

Tavmjongmizmo: Hello, welcome to #inkscape-devel!Oct 08 11:54
mizmohey :)Oct 08 11:55
LiamWbblOct 08 11:57
Tavmjongdoctormon: pingOct 08 12:00
*bryceh_ wavesOct 08 12:01
TavmjongHi bryceh_Oct 08 12:02
Tavmjongmizmo: We've been discussing having two hacking sessions, one in concert with LGM as originally planned and a smaller one at Red Hat, focused on GTK an UX issues.Oct 08 12:04
bryceh_I've posted a first cut at a draft of a patch to the hackathon pageOct 08 12:05
bryceh_http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2015Oct 08 12:05
bryceh_er, s/patch/pitch/Oct 08 12:05
bryceh_damn muscle memory ;-)Oct 08 12:05
TavmjongI think the opportunity to interact with Red Hat's GTK experts is too good to pass up but we would probably get a larger turnout at LGM.Oct 08 12:05
bryceh_Tavmjong, agreed, but sounds like you're still waiting on answers from some peopleOct 08 12:06
bryceh_maybe a second followup email would jar them into a response?Oct 08 12:06
TavmjongJon has already been jarred, he is interested.Oct 08 12:06
bryceh_make sure to mention that if we do it, that their travel costs would be reimbursedOct 08 12:06
*mizmo looksOct 08 12:07
Tavmjonggood pointOct 08 12:07
bryceh_ScislaC, meeting pingOct 08 12:07
ScislaCI'm here... just poking at stuff :)Oct 08 12:07
bryceh_karenesq, meeting pingOct 08 12:08
mizmoso for our event in January, we already had to submit our budget and we got approval, but since we didn't have a firm answer from you guys we didn't have anything for you in the budgetOct 08 12:08
mizmohowever,Oct 08 12:08
mizmothere is definitely interest at RH to support Inkscape, so we dont have to be tied in with the january eventOct 08 12:08
bryceh_mizmo, ahOct 08 12:08
mizmoi thoguht it would be a good opportnity for you to work with some UX designers who use inkscape heavily in their daily work, but its okay if another time works betterOct 08 12:08
mizmoi think at this point, from my pov in getting budget for the january thing - the train's already left the stationOct 08 12:09
mizmoso we could do this as a different eventOct 08 12:09
mizmoi might have to look into funding it differentlyOct 08 12:09
mizmoi dont fully understand what kind of funding you're looking for though. certainly we can provide the facility and our corporate rate for local hotels, and of course our gtk guys are open to working with you wheneverOct 08 12:09
bryceh_bummer, well okay...  maybe it's better we stay focused on getting the LGM one to be successful first, then try a stab later at other kindsOct 08 12:10
TavmjongIt might be better if it were a bit later...Oct 08 12:10
ScislaCmizmo: is the design meeting an annual event?Oct 08 12:11
TavmjongWhile any funding would be helpful, I don't think we should let that be a barrier to having a small hacking session at Red Hat (three or four people). Getting the GTK help would be worth a lot to us.Oct 08 12:12
mizmoScislaC, it's not, it's a one-off thingOct 08 12:14
mizmo(Sorry for disappearing for a sec i had a call)Oct 08 12:14
bryceh_Tavmjong, from what I'm hearing so far, I'm not confident we'd actually get that help... sounds like this is more designersOct 08 12:14
mizmobryceh_, no no mclasen already committed to giving you guys one on one GTK help, he's the upstream maintainer for GTKOct 08 12:14
mizmobryceh_, he is located in the same office i'm proposing you hack atOct 08 12:15
mizmobryceh_, he also mentioned having other members of his team come and help, he mentioned owen taylor joiningOct 08 12:15
mizmobryceh_, he also said he'd be open to travelling down to boston or cambridge or wherever if you were looking at alternative venues thereOct 08 12:16
TavmjongIt would be really useful, for example, for Krzysztof to be able to bang heads with the GTK guys. We are having Canvas redraw issues that are exposed by the Mac OSX build.Oct 08 12:17
ScislaCTavmjong: and gtk3 buildsOct 08 12:17
bryceh_I'm just worried it sounds like we're going to end up footing the bill ourselves here, and it's gonna drain the coffersOct 08 12:18
bryceh_if we can do it as part of the LGM hackfest I think that'd be better, since we'll have fundraising organized so support that (knock on wood).Oct 08 12:19
*ScislaC nodsOct 08 12:19
TavmjongIt would be worth to send three people to spend a couple of days there.Oct 08 12:19
mizmoif i can understand the financial needs a bit better i can see if red hat can helpOct 08 12:20
TavmjongMaybe we can have the hackfest at LGM and the follow up that by having two or three people head down to Red Hat.Oct 08 12:20
Tavmjongs/the/then/Oct 08 12:20
ScislaCIf KK could physically participate without thinking it might conflict with something (which means it likely will), I'd be more inclined to support it.Oct 08 12:20
mizmoi can also ask matthias if hed be willing to go to LGMOct 08 12:21
mizmoi think that is more difficult for him thoughOct 08 12:21
doctormonpingOct 08 12:24
ScislaCare you pinging everyone?Oct 08 12:24
bryceh_mizmo, the financial needs are principally the travel costs for attendees.  Except for me I don't think anyone else has employers that would cover it.Oct 08 12:25
TavmjongI agree that getting KK there would be important.Oct 08 12:25
TavmjongWe do have some funds and if people see that we are using them productively, they might be inclined to donate more.Oct 08 12:27
doctormonScislaC: It's the new google API for ping, it's alerts everyone and noone.Oct 08 12:27
ScislaC:)Oct 08 12:27
doctormonbryceh_: I'm my own employer, I'm covering it ;-)Oct 08 12:28
bryceh_Tavmjong, conspicuous consumption?  ;-)Oct 08 12:28
ScislaCdoctormon: ask your boss for a raiseOct 08 12:28
bryceh_Tavmjong, admittedly yes that would give a good case study to make for future hackfest pitches... if it ends up being successfulOct 08 12:28
doctormonIt's also a matter of raising morale too. Even for people who are not quite active atm, being able to join us phsyically could spur reinvolvement.Oct 08 12:28
TavmjongWe saw that at the last LGM.Oct 08 12:29
doctormonThe small session at last LGM was quite productive but also very energising. The suggestion from LGM organisers to do more events for inkscape was what brought this hackfest idea to the fore for us.Oct 08 12:29
TavmjongWe do need to work on building community.Oct 08 12:30
ScislaCI think that once 0.91 is out, it will somewhat stoke the fire... after that it's having things happen "regularly" which will help build it up.Oct 08 12:30
karenesqoh! I had this in my calendar for 3:30Oct 08 12:30
TavmjongPeople seem to think we are as big a group as Gimp or Blender.Oct 08 12:30
karenesqsorry, I'm not sure why. Reading now.Oct 08 12:30
bryceh_doctormon, Tavmjong along those lines, could you look at what I wrote for the pitch on http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2015 and include some mention of those past experiences maybe?Oct 08 12:31
ScislaCTavmjong: Gimp isn't that big of a group from my understanding... Blender on the other hand...Oct 08 12:31
bryceh_it's not the size of the project that matters, it's the quality of the community ;-)Oct 08 12:32
doctormonScislaC: Agreed and fully on board with making regulairty our thing.Oct 08 12:32
mizmobryceh_, forgive me, i'm not sure where everyone is coming from? avg ticket price / number of attendees or just a ballpark / gut estimate on total $?Oct 08 12:33
bryceh_humOct 08 12:34
ScislaCmizmo: most of our devs are overseas... Tavmjong what are ticket prices like for you to the states?Oct 08 12:34
TavmjongFor GTK session: guessing: three or four people, two from europe, two from USOct 08 12:34
Tavmjongtickets from Paris  roughly $800Oct 08 12:35
ScislaCTavmjong: each way?Oct 08 12:35
bryceh_I think we're somewhere in the $1000-2000 range per person, times 3-4 people so I'd guess we'd be looking at ~5kOct 08 12:35
mizmookOct 08 12:36
mizmoi can poke around with that # and see whats possibleOct 08 12:36
TavmjongScislaC; round tripOct 08 12:36
ScislaCniceOct 08 12:36
mizmo<= no promises or anything but i will tryOct 08 12:36
bryceh_thanks mizmo Oct 08 12:36
Tavmjongmizmo, understood, thanksOct 08 12:36
bryceh_Tavmjong, would you be willing to split out a new page for us for the RedHat hackfest, from http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2015 ?Oct 08 12:37
Tavmjongdoctormo can take the bus...Oct 08 12:37
Tavmjongbryceh_ YesOct 08 12:37
bryceh_and include the Gtk issues (thanks for assembling that)Oct 08 12:37
doctormonTavmjong: If it comes to it, I'll take my bike, give you the bus fare for the plane ;-)Oct 08 12:38
karenesqthat's great mizmoOct 08 12:38
TavmjongLiamW did most of the work on the GTK issues page, thanks LiamWOct 08 12:38
mizmodoctormon, you can take the red hat bus from alewife heheOct 08 12:38
TavmjongMaybe we should talk about LGM hackfest. Has there been any response from the LGM organizers?Oct 08 12:39
karenesqone tip for the hackfest page we probably should delete the reference to drunk hacking and instead say something about the chance to socialize, hang out and network with each otherOct 08 12:39
karenesq:)Oct 08 12:39
Tavmjongs/drunk hacking/community building/Oct 08 12:40
bryceh_karenesq, I almost put "Settle some of our differences over some beers" in the pitch but opted to leave it out ;-)Oct 08 12:40
karenesqhahaOct 08 12:40
TavmjongWe had about eight inkscapers at the past LGM. I imagine we could get a somewhat larger group this time as we are starting earlier.Oct 08 12:41
bryceh_doctormon, ditto Tav's question.  Any word back from LGM recently?Oct 08 12:42
bryceh_Tavmjong, want to pick a target number?  12?Oct 08 12:43
TavmjongSounds good.Oct 08 12:43
bryceh_so budget of $9-18k very, very roughlyOct 08 12:46
TavmjongWe offered $500 per person last year which limited the range of who could/would come.Oct 08 12:47
*bryceh_ nodsOct 08 12:47
TavmjongGoing to Toronto will be more expensive for Europeans who, except for Martin, were the attendees at the last LGM.Oct 08 12:48
TavmjongI think we could use a tiered system like we did for GSoC Mentor's meeting this year.Oct 08 12:49
Tavmjong$500 for anybody involved in Inkscape, higher for our top contributors.Oct 08 12:49
Tavmjongs/contributors/developers/Oct 08 12:50
bryceh_Tavmjong, that's a good idea.Oct 08 12:50
bryceh_ok, other topics....Oct 08 12:54
bryceh_ScislaC, karenesq, doctormon?Oct 08 12:55
doctormonhiOct 08 12:55
karenesqwell with mizmo here, I was hopign to do a bit of fundraising brainstormingOct 08 12:55
karenesqhow do we connect with users? How do we figure out what companies or institutions are using InkscapeOct 08 12:55
karenesq?Oct 08 12:55
doctormonbryceh_: No outstanding questions to LGM I believe.Oct 08 12:55
karenesqand how do we translate that into a compelling call for help :)Oct 08 12:55
mizmoeg maybe if we had some kind of form letter folks could give to their employerOct 08 12:56
mizmoi save you this much $$ per year in adobe whatever license fees. would you support my work for this company by contributing some percentage of that back to the inkscape projectOct 08 12:57
mizmo^^ something along those linesOct 08 12:57
mizmoif there was an easy way to arrange for the contribution it might workOct 08 12:57
bryceh_mizmo, that's an interesting idea, I bet that would play wellOct 08 12:57
mizmoi know i've broached the subject before, here, but it wasn't clear where to submit the money to and howOct 08 12:57
mizmoin the past red hat has given funding to LGM as a result of that style of asking for fundingOct 08 12:58
mizmobut it would be even better to be able to give it directly to you folksOct 08 12:58
mizmosince connecting the line is more clearOct 08 12:58
doctormonMo had a good idea last year of asking Red Hat (to start with) for equiverlent or % of money that they would have spent on Adobe.Oct 08 12:58
mizmoyep, i think i explained this badly, but the response i got was $ for LGMOct 08 12:59
doctormonCertainly a good way to quantify the support a compny large or small is giving to their foss friends.Oct 08 12:59
ScislaCbryceh_: I think that's reasonable for fundingOct 08 12:59
*bryceh_ notes down mizmo's ideaOct 08 13:01
bryceh_ScislaC, Tavmjong so maybe something like this?Oct 08 13:01
bryceh_* Up to $2000 each for Inkscape developers who have contributed for 3+ years and > 200 commitsOct 08 13:02
bryceh_* Up to $1500 each for Inkscape developers who have contributed for 2+ years and > 100 commitsOct 08 13:02
bryceh_* Up to $1000 each for Inkscape developers who have contributed for 1+ year and > 50 commitsOct 08 13:02
bryceh_* Up to $500 each for any Inkscape contributor listed in AUTHORS file with at least 10 commits by Jan 1, 2015Oct 08 13:02
ScislaCI have started a (very incomplete)  list of who uses Inkscape, but some of them like educational institutions and small businesses I'm really not inclined to ask for money http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/UsedByOct 08 13:02
bryceh_ScislaC, niceOct 08 13:02
ScislaCI think some of it would be case by caseOct 08 13:02
bryceh_ScislaC, I think the use we have in mind is so we can say, "Look, here's some of the important/cool stuff Inkscape is being used for."Oct 08 13:03
mizmocrowd source kind of funding might be good too. just have a button, make it very easy to click on from inkscape.org, for individual usersOct 08 13:03
mizmohonestly even with Red Hat contributing i'd be happy to throw $50-100 in the potOct 08 13:03
mizmoas an individualOct 08 13:03
bryceh_we discussed last week setting up either something on indiegogo or our own paypal donation pageOct 08 13:04
doctormonI'm compiling a graph, it's very interestingOct 08 13:04
bryceh_anyone have thoughts one way or the other?Oct 08 13:04
karenesqwe definitely should track educational institutions to make the personal appeal more compellingOct 08 13:04
mizmothere is a ton of good will amongst inkscape users towards you guysOct 08 13:04
doctormonbryceh_: Do commits to inkscape-web or docs count towards that?Oct 08 13:04
bryceh_doctormon, I should think so!Oct 08 13:04
ScislaCOne example is Punished Props, surprise they makes props... the owner recommends Inkscape in every design tutorial video he puts up. No way I want to ask him given all of the free advertising. Apparently we're big in the prop and cosplay communities because of people like him.Oct 08 13:04
karenesqIf someone wanted to maintain it you could also do a ruler if the money comes into a regular paypal accountOct 08 13:05
mizmodoctormon and i used inkscape in a girl scouts program, i use it in educational outreach programs as well. i'm using it right now for a girls STEM camp we're planning at Red Hat early next yearOct 08 13:05
karenesqwe could let you know the balance on a regular basisOct 08 13:05
ScislaCbryceh_: I think that funding proposal looks goodOct 08 13:05
mizmowe're going to be teaching girls how to use inkscapeOct 08 13:05
bryceh_doctormon, translations too, although I *think* those are counted as regular commitsOct 08 13:05
karenesqmizmo, that's great!Oct 08 13:05
mizmoScislaC, instead of asking him for money, asking him for a testimonial / quote you can useOct 08 13:05
karenesqmizmo, pictures of kids using Inkscape would be great for using in materialsOct 08 13:06
ScislaCmizmo: I like the idea! Thanks for the suggestion!Oct 08 13:06
bryceh_mizmo, nice!Oct 08 13:06
mizmoim of course being a designer totally biased towards my own designs, but you could do something like this 'your life on fedora' section here - http://fedoraproject.org/en/using/Oct 08 13:06
TavmjongMaybe on our homepage, a place where people can enter how/where they are using Inkscape?Oct 08 13:06
mizmowhere you ask the folks with interesting usages for a headshot and do a little interviewOct 08 13:06
bryceh_mizmo, my 3 yr old daughter loves playing with the star tool with meOct 08 13:06
mizmoi'd be willing to help out with that tooOct 08 13:06
mizmointerviewing fokls. if you know who to talk toOct 08 13:06
mizmoi can see if the woman in charge of the STEM camp we're doing here would be willing to do an interview about itOct 08 13:07
karenesqScislaC, when we do the fundraising campaign we could ask people to do certain things, like asking Punished Props if they'd do something "cool" if people donate a certain amountOct 08 13:07
mizmoand id be happy to do one tooOct 08 13:07
karenesqoh great!Oct 08 13:07
mizmokarenesq, i do have pictures of kids using it, but i dont have photo release forms so we cant use them :(Oct 08 13:07
doctormonTavmjong: The website could support a CRM piece attached to people. Create a sort of business data addition that people can fill in.Oct 08 13:07
mizmobut i can see if we can do photo release forms for this thing coming up next yearOct 08 13:07
karenesqso those small business and other users can contribute by offering goals. I've been impressed with what TAI is doing with their fundingn campaignOct 08 13:08
doctormonmizmo: Which group are you doing this with this year? GG?Oct 08 13:08
karenesqah mizmo that's too bad, but maybe next time?Oct 08 13:08
bryceh_karenesq, TAI?Oct 08 13:08
karenesqTAI = The Ada Initiative, sorry!Oct 08 13:08
bryceh_aha!Oct 08 13:08
karenesqThey're having a massively successful fundraising campaign right nowOct 08 13:08
bryceh_good!Oct 08 13:09
karenesqbtw all this reminds me we haven't gotten the fiscal sponsorship agreement signed upOct 08 13:09
bryceh_karenesq, having goals is not a bad idea.  we could be more explicit about the # of folks it allows us to send.Oct 08 13:09
mizmodoctormon, theres a non profit called flyingbridges (flyingbirdges.org i think) organizing it, it's called the all girls STEM challenge or something like thatOct 08 13:10
karenesqright bryceh_! but also, say that if we reach a certain amount, we'll implement some feature... or somebody using inkscape will make something that people will care about...Oct 08 13:10
mizmokarenesq, one of the things i think that helps TAI's campaigns too is all the high quality photos they use in their appealsOct 08 13:10
karenesqmizmo: definitelyOct 08 13:10
Tavmjongkarenesq, we are planning on discussing the fsa at GSoC Mentor's meeting (three board members will be there)Oct 08 13:11
mizmoone thing that would be a huge boon to individual inkscape users that might be a nice 'reward' for meeting a funding goal is high quality screencasts of how to use some of the newer features that aren't so well documentedOct 08 13:11
karenesqoh right! I'll be there too :) We should set a time to meet upOct 08 13:11
karenesqmaybe sunday afternoon?Oct 08 13:11
mizmoi rely on folks like ryanlerch and andyfitz who keep up with devel builds to grok how the newest features workOct 08 13:11
bryceh_sounds doableOct 08 13:12
karenesqTavmjong, or we can meet up during a meal tooOct 08 13:12
*bryceh_ jots notes about goalsOct 08 13:13
ryanlerchi have done similar screencasts in the past trying to cover the new featuresOct 08 13:13
Tavmjongkarenesq, Doesn't matter to me.Oct 08 13:13
karenesqok Tavmjong, why don't we meet for lunch on sunday :)Oct 08 13:13
karenesqthat's really the perfect kind of "reward"Oct 08 13:14
Tavmjongryanlerch, What features of 0.91 are you must excited about? What should we be promoting when we release it (finallly)?Oct 08 13:14
karenesqbut you can also get users to get their people to care by producing somethign within their own communitiesOct 08 13:15
Tavmjongkarenesq, Sunday lunch sounds fine.Oct 08 13:15
mizmoi gotta run for a sec, i may be back (need to cahse someone down before they leave the office)Oct 08 13:15
ScislaCA wild ryanlerch appears...Oct 08 13:15
mizmobut ive had poor luck so i will probably be right back lolOct 08 13:15
karenesqcool mizmo, it's been really awesome having your inputOct 08 13:15
karenesqperhaps we should move the meeting to wednesday as a regular matter just in case mizmo can participate in future :)Oct 08 13:16
ryanlerchTavmjong, it's hard to choose (or realise at this point, as i have been using +devel for so long now)Oct 08 13:16
ryanlerchhere is my list that i blogged about -- http://inkscapetutorials.wordpress.com/category/0-91-new-features/Oct 08 13:16
Tavmjongkarenesq: That works for me.Oct 08 13:16
ScislaCthat can work for me tooOct 08 13:16
Tavmjongryanlerch, Great blog. Maybe we should link to that on our home page?Oct 08 13:17
ryanlerchTavmjong, it was previously...Oct 08 13:18
ryanlerchon the old siteOct 08 13:18
su_vstill is, http://inkscape.org/en/learn/tutorials/  (External Tutorials)Oct 08 13:20
bryceh_karenesq, I think that would be ok.  Can anyone not do Wednesdays regularly?Oct 08 13:21
doctormonOK, bryceh_We keep saying that blender is bigger, now I have a graph to show it: http://inkscape.org/en/gallery/item/944/Oct 08 13:21
Tavmjongryanlerch: Here's another question, what bugs do you really want to see squashed before release?Oct 08 13:21
doctormonWednesdays is ok for meOct 08 13:21
karenesqI guess this may be a good time to say that all next week, I'll be at LinuxCon EU, so will miss the meetng :)Oct 08 13:21
mizmoi can do this next week too if neededOct 08 13:21
bryceh_doctormon, kewlOct 08 13:21
mizmoi do need to go now though, cuz the person im looking for is available heheOct 08 13:22
doctormonTavmjong: Maybe we should just copy and paste it into the website ;-)Oct 08 13:22
Tavmjongmizmo: Thanks for your input!Oct 08 13:22
bryceh_doctormon, how do you calculate community size?Oct 08 13:22
doctormonSee legends. Number of committers in the last 12 months.Oct 08 13:23
karenesqnice mizmo thanks for coming!Oct 08 13:23
doctormonAlways great to see you online mizmoOct 08 13:23
ryanlerchTavmjong, can i get back to you on that? it needs some thought.Oct 08 13:23
Tavmjongryanlerch: Sure!Oct 08 13:23
bryceh_thanks all.  I'll get the irc log up shortly.  Meantime no one be shy about updating http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2015Oct 08 13:24
ScislaCthank you mizmo!Oct 08 13:24
karenesqI actually have to go now tooOct 08 13:25
bryceh_thanks karenesq Oct 08 13:25
ScislaCthank you karenesqOct 08 13:25
karenesqbut this is great stuff!Oct 08 13:25
karenesq:)Oct 08 13:25
karenesqI'll idle so I can catch up laterOct 08 13:25
TavmjongI need to go too. See you all.Oct 08 13:32
bryceh_yep I need to get back to work.  more later.  cya.Oct 08 13:33
doctormonThanks Tav, have a good eveningOct 08 13:33
doctormonbye bryceh_, back tot he grind stone for me too.Oct 08 13:33
ScislaCthank TavmjongOct 08 13:33
ScislaCthanks evenOct 08 13:33
ScislaCthanks bryceh_ and doctormonOct 08 13:34

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