Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Wednesday, 2014-11-19

Tavmjong================ Board Meeting ================Nov 19 12:00
TavmjongAgenda: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Board_MeetingsNov 19 12:00
TavmjongFirst order of business: congrats to JonCruz on his new job!Nov 19 12:00
johan_e:) gratzNov 19 12:01
TavmjongHope he'll still have time for Inkscape.Nov 19 12:01
TavmjongWho is here?Nov 19 12:02
JonCruzThanks!Nov 19 12:02
JonCruzTavmjong: actually more time now, since I won't have to do prototypes or demos for potential employers. And more importantly I won't have proprietary practices getting in the wayNov 19 12:03
TavmjongJonCruz, Excellent!!!Nov 19 12:03
Tavmjongbryce, pingNov 19 12:04
Tavmjongdoctormon, pingNov 19 12:04
bryceTavmjong, yepNov 19 12:04
Tavmjongtedg, pingNov 19 12:04
TavmjongScislaC, pingNov 19 12:04
ScislaCPONG! I'm pseudo-hereNov 19 12:04
Tavmjongbryce, I see you have reordered the minutes.Nov 19 12:04
tedgHowdy folksNov 19 12:05
bryceTavmjong, yeah we didn't get to the RH hackfest last meeting so thought it'd be fair to give it first order this timeNov 19 12:05
Tavmjongbryce, I don't think Red Hat visits needs to much discussion. Item 1 is pretty settled.Nov 19 12:05
bryceTavmjong, okNov 19 12:05
TavmjongItem 2 can be decided later after the LGM hackfest is in better shape. I think it would only be a couple of people tacking a sidetrip to Boston to the LGM trip.Nov 19 12:06
TavmjongI do think the FSA needs to get done. It's been on the agenda for a couple of years now.Nov 19 12:07
bryceitem #2 being the FSA?Nov 19 12:07
johan_eI've also lost track TavmjongNov 19 12:08
Tavmjongbryce, No, item #2 was the Krzysztof visit. Sorry...Nov 19 12:08
bryceTavmjong, ahNov 19 12:08
Tavmjongitem #1 was Martin attending the Fedora designers meeting.Nov 19 12:09
TavmjongOK, I'll switch to topics. Topic 2: FSA.Nov 19 12:10
JonCruzTavmjong: as a side note for follow-up on item 2, if it were to cross into gtk-wayland that lands it the direct path of my "professional" work.Nov 19 12:10
TavmjongJonCruz, Can Inkscape work with Wayland without work on our side?Nov 19 12:12
bryceTavmjong, in theory it should be usable under XWaylandNov 19 12:12
Tavmjongbryce, But wouldn't that be slower than using Wayland directly?Nov 19 12:13
JonCruzGood question. I'll ping KK about it. Gtk directly on Wayland should just magically work without the Inkscape team doing anything.Nov 19 12:13
tedgIt should also work with a GTK/Cairo backend, no?Nov 19 12:13
bryceTavmjong, what Jon is referring to is if there's work needed to get it running natively under Wayland, we might be able to tackle that work as part of our day jobNov 19 12:13
JonCruztedg: is that a thing?Nov 19 12:13
tedgJonCruz, YesNov 19 12:13
ScislaCI'm sure the same canvas-flickering that plagues GTK3 builds will hit regular waylandNov 19 12:13
tedgThe tricker part will be with EGL, but not sure how much of a concern that is.Nov 19 12:13
JonCruzheh. that's a bryce questionNov 19 12:13
tedgThe flickering actually should be a bit better.Nov 19 12:13
JonCruzbut... as to "Topic 2" ?Nov 19 12:14
bryceJonCruz, except probably wayland/gtk is gtk3, and thus the aforementioned gtk issuesNov 19 12:14
ScislaCtedg: as in flashier? ;)Nov 19 12:14
TavmjongNote to self: Get JonCruz to give a short talk/demonstration of Wayland at LGM.Nov 19 12:15
bryceanyway, while very interesting, inkscape+wayland is probably veering offroad a bit for this meeting ;-)Nov 19 12:15
ScislaCAnyway, FSA was brought up right before waylandNov 19 12:15
doctormonhereNov 19 12:15
JonCruzah, he's responding. We can tackle Topic 2 now :-)Nov 19 12:15
TavmjongDoes anybody object to the Proposed addition to the FSA? If not, I can ping Karen. They are waiting on us.Nov 19 12:16
tedgI agree with bryce that I think social pressure is good. But I understand the desire for policy here. +0Nov 19 12:17
TavmjongSocial pressure is working in 6/7 cases. (We have six here now!)Nov 19 12:17
karen_sorry was over in #inkscapeNov 19 12:18
karen_thanks su_vNov 19 12:18
su_vywNov 19 12:18
ScislaChi karen_Nov 19 12:18
karen_hi ScislaC!Nov 19 12:18
Tavmjongkaren_ We are discussing the FSA now.Nov 19 12:18
johan_ehi karen_Nov 19 12:18
karen_I'm so glad my travels are over for the year, sorry to miss so many meetings!Nov 19 12:18
karen_hi johan_e!Nov 19 12:18
karen_cool TavmjongNov 19 12:18
Tavmjongkaren_, Agenda: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Board_MeetingsNov 19 12:18
JonCruzkaren_: that's ok. You made more than I didNov 19 12:18
bryceTavmjong, social pressure appears to be working out for #7 too, but not much I can say publically atm.Nov 19 12:19
brycekaren_, we've missed you!Nov 19 12:19
karen_:DNov 19 12:19
Tavmjongbryce, I still think the addition is useful. It makes it more explicit what is expected of a board member and it better to have a policy in place before it is really needed.Nov 19 12:21
karen_Tavmjong, is there a draft?Nov 19 12:22
Tavmjongkaren_, In the agenda there is a "Proposed addition".Nov 19 12:22
johan_e"Proposed addition: If a board member misses three or more votes in a  row where multiple votes within one calendar month are counted as one  vote, their board position is vacated.(The multiple votes within one calendar month are counted as one vote  is to avoid a situation where a board member can be removed if they are  not available for a few of weeks during which multiple votes take  place.)"Nov 19 12:23
Tavmjongkaren_, It's been essentially decided that requiring board members to attend regular IRC meetings was a bit too much.Nov 19 12:23
doctormon(or if 5 votes happen on one day ;-))Nov 19 12:23
karen_hmmmNov 19 12:24
bryceTavmjong, the phrasing I might quibble over but I've no issues with adding that as policy.Nov 19 12:24
karen_its definitely a good idea to have a provision like this - it's been helpful to other projects I've been involved withNov 19 12:24
karen_maybe it would be better to say "except if those multiple votes  are all within a period of n days"Nov 19 12:25
karen_I think counting them as one is confusingNov 19 12:25
Tavmjongbryce, I would be happy to have someone re-write it.Nov 19 12:25
karen_especially to make it as long as a monthNov 19 12:25
bryceTavmjong, I've rewritten it in my head several times but it never comes out clearer than what you've written.Nov 19 12:26
ScislaCWell, is anyone against the notion of it?Nov 19 12:26
ScislaCI think it's a good idea.Nov 19 12:27
Tavmjongbryce, Yeah, I spent a bit of effort but couldn't do better. Maybe karen_ can!Nov 19 12:27
bryceother than that is there anything else going into or being changed in the FSA ?Nov 19 12:27
doctormonIt's logically consistent as it is.Nov 19 12:27
Tavmjongbryce, The 10% cut to SFC.Nov 19 12:27
bryceif not, I guess the next step would be to craft an actual full draft of the thing, and arrange a vote on the mailing listNov 19 12:28
bryceTavmjong, ok.  that bit we already voted on a while back.Nov 19 12:28
Tavmjongkaren_, Can you give us a full draft to vote on (with an edited version of the proposed addition)?Nov 19 12:29
johan_ekaren_: the month period was a somewhat arbitrary choice I think, but it gives some slack (vacations, etc).Nov 19 12:30
karen_ok am working on a draftNov 19 12:30
Tavmjongkaren_, Thanks!Nov 19 12:30
TavmjongMove on to Topic 3: LGM Hackfest?Nov 19 12:31
TavmjongI think The Pitch looks good. Any comments?Nov 19 12:32
brycekaren_, so we've made a little forward progress on the hackfest but there's one or two action items we were blocking on for your inputNov 19 12:32
karen_how about something like: If a board member misses three or more consecutive votes, their board position will be terminated.  For purposes of this provision, votes that are within 7 days shall not be counted as separate votes (the "Grace Period"). Further, Grace Period shall be extended up to 30 days upon prior written notice of unavailability by the board member to the rest of the boardNov 19 12:33
karen_I would run it by tony, our GC anywayNov 19 12:33
karen_oh ok, bryceNov 19 12:33
brycekaren_,  Can we use Inkscape's existing paypal account or should we set up a separate one for fundraising ?  We're operating on the assumption we can use the existing one, and use the 'item_id' field to differentiate hackfest-tagged donations vs. "ordinary" donations.Nov 19 12:34
Tavmjongkaren_, Looks good to me.Nov 19 12:34
brycekaren_, the implication being that you guys would be able to help us tally the two amountsNov 19 12:34
karen_I think we can use the the existing one, let me check with bradleyNov 19 12:35
tedgkaren_, I think that is better, thanks!Nov 19 12:35
bryceso, if I read that right...  this gives everyone 3 weeks by default, then pops them off?Nov 19 12:36
bryceor 6 weeks if they give written notice.  Am I interpreting this correctly?Nov 19 12:36
johan_eactually, I read it as 2weeks+1day worst case periodNov 19 12:37
tedgI read it like bryce :-)Nov 19 12:37
karen_haha now I have to reread what i wrote:)Nov 19 12:37
johan_eday1: voteNov 19 12:38
johan_eday8: voteNov 19 12:38
johan_eday 15:  vote =kickNov 19 12:38
karen_yes 3 weeks by default if there are votes every weekNov 19 12:38
johan_ewhat is not defined is what it means to "miss a vote", when is that determined?Nov 19 12:38
TavmjongWe don't vote that often (11 votes in the 2014). But perhaps it should be 14 days instead of 7. I don't mind being conservative here.Nov 19 12:39
karen_oh I see what you are saying johan_eNov 19 12:39
karen_yeah that's a good point tooNov 19 12:39
johan_ethis basically requires a maximum vote duration somehow, right?Nov 19 12:39
bryceyeah, I think we can afford to be a little looser.  The problem we're trying to solve is more a longer term one.Nov 19 12:39
johan_ei agree, 3 weeks is very shortNov 19 12:40
bryceI'm not super worried if someone goes missing for a few weeks.  Life happens, I understand.  It's more the chronic long term absentees that we're trying to handle.Nov 19 12:40
karen_miss a vote = not vote within the required time for action or 7 days whichever is longer?Nov 19 12:40
brycekaren_, that sounds good, yesNov 19 12:40
karen_well unless the required time to act is like a year :)Nov 19 12:41
Tavmjongkaren_, +1Nov 19 12:41
karen_this is why developers make good contract lawyers :)Nov 19 12:41
brycehehNov 19 12:42
karen_I was always surprised how easy it was for me to pick up contract drafting relative to my nonprogrammer law school peersNov 19 12:42
karen_If no required time for action is stated then 2 weeks?Nov 19 12:43
ScislaC That sounds reasonable to me.Nov 19 12:44
brycekaren_, sounds goodNov 19 12:44
TavmjongSounds good to me too.Nov 19 12:44
karen_bryce: wait inkscape isn't using its own paypal link, right?Nov 19 12:44
brycekaren_, we're using the one that feeds into sfcNov 19 12:45
bryce(same one we've always used.)Nov 19 12:45
karen_ok so long as we're not talkign about the old defunct inkscape oneNov 19 12:46
karen_I think I gave Bradley a heart attack :DNov 19 12:46
ScislaC:DNov 19 12:46
doctormonkaren_: Where are the payment logs kept for our account?Nov 19 12:47
brycedoctormon, I have access to themNov 19 12:47
karen_this is more in hte realm of bookkeeping doctormon, but we provide projects access to their accounting records in svn on conservancy's systemNov 19 12:47
karen_right, bryce has access :)Nov 19 12:47
doctormonI'd like to see a measure of the accounts publicly accessible. Are they possible to script?Nov 19 12:48
brycedoctormon, I posted some summaries to the list a few months back if you want to get a flavor.  I haven't checked more recently but expect finances are about the same modulo a few bucks.Nov 19 12:48
brycedoctormon, yes they're scriptable and I have scriptage.  Would be happy to work with you on improving the transparency for the data.Nov 19 12:49
doctormon(may require a vote, I'll leave that to the board)Nov 19 12:49
doctormonThanks bryceNov 19 12:49
tedgAh, I have access too, just needed to find them :-)Nov 19 12:49
brycedoctormon, just more items for our respective todo lists...Nov 19 12:50
doctormonTodo for the moon!Nov 19 12:50
JonCruztodo: pick a todo manager package  ;-)Nov 19 12:50
brycekaren_, anyway so the question is, if we tag donations with product_id or item_id or whatever it is  to "hackfest", can that data be sussed out on your end to give us a tally of how much $$ we have for the hackfest?Nov 19 12:51
bryceJonCruz, we're writing one!  (but it's on the todo list...)Nov 19 12:51
karen_bryce, bkuhn says that he can create a button for youNov 19 12:52
brycekaren_, ok greatNov 19 12:52
bryceTavmjong, ok what's next to discuss?  mockup?Nov 19 12:53
TavmjongThe Pitch: final approval.Nov 19 12:54
TavmjongIt looks good to me (http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2015)Nov 19 12:55
karen_bkuhn just needs text for the button - a long string and a short stringNov 19 12:55
karen_the current text for example, is "Inkscape Donation via Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc." and "INKSCAPE"Nov 19 12:55
tedgpitch + 1Nov 19 12:56
*karen_ is reading the pitchNov 19 12:56
tedgOr $pitch += 1Nov 19 12:56
bryceguessing it could simply be "Inkscape Hackfest 2015 Donation via Software Freedom Conservancy, Inc." and "INKSCAPE-HACKFEST-2015"Nov 19 12:57
bryceor maybe leave out the year if we want, not sureNov 19 12:57
karen_I would add text saying who users are and why inkscape is a good public work - ie gives access to people who can't afford proprietary toolsNov 19 12:57
johan_ekaren_: oh Karen, how disappointing.  Calling Inkscape the poor-man solution. shame!Nov 19 12:58
johan_e:PNov 19 12:58
karen_hahaNov 19 12:58
karen_I like the $5 level, but maybe say instead "if you would buy an inkscape developer a beverage!"Nov 19 12:59
bryceyeah that's probably betterNov 19 13:00
karen_also do you guys have a team picture from another meetup or anything?Nov 19 13:00
bryceI've got one from the first LGM but I think there's only 3 of us picturedNov 19 13:01
bryceand that was years and years agoNov 19 13:01
karen_I'm just looking for something visualNov 19 13:01
bryceanyone have photos from last LGM?Nov 19 13:01
karen_I'm always surprised at how much that helpsNov 19 13:01
johan_e*anything better than the lame libreoffice picture please!* ;)Nov 19 13:01
karen_it also doesn't have to be peopleNov 19 13:01
su_vCedric blogged IIRC about the LGM meeting (?)Nov 19 13:01
karen_maybe a screenshot of something cool that was done after the last time you got together in person?Nov 19 13:01
johan_e(i have a picture of Tav and Kzrysz in a themepark ride?)Nov 19 13:01
Tavmjongjohan_e, Hmm, probably not my best side.Nov 19 13:02
ScislaCHas any code that affected user-visible features really been hacked on in person before?Nov 19 13:05
bryceScislaC, I think all code is hacked on in personNov 19 13:05
ScislaCbryce: at in-person meetings of Inkscape developers? Is that more clear?Nov 19 13:06
su_vInkscape meeting - http://afgral.org/2014/04/lgm-2014-leipzig-jour-3/Nov 19 13:07
JonCruzAny third-party pics from the mentors' summit?Nov 19 13:07
*karen_ is kicking herself not getting pics from the mentor summitNov 19 13:08
karen_next year we will make an effort to take picsNov 19 13:08
karen_remind me :DNov 19 13:08
johan_eKrzysz took a picture of me and Tav at some pointNov 19 13:08
bryceyeah http://afgral.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/P1070201.jpg would work.  I recognize doctormo; who are the others?Nov 19 13:09
doctormonTav next to meNov 19 13:09
doctormonIs that ryanlerch gesticulating?Nov 19 13:10
ScislaCTav is to the right of doctormo?Nov 19 13:10
ryanlerchdoctormon, ?Nov 19 13:10
ScislaCryanlerch see the picture aboveNov 19 13:10
ryanlerchoh, yeah that is me waving my hands around!Nov 19 13:11
ScislaC:)Nov 19 13:11
johan_emust have been something really massive!Nov 19 13:11
doctormonInkscape codebaseNov 19 13:11
karen_thats'' a great pictureNov 19 13:11
karen_you should put tat on the pageNov 19 13:11
ryanlerchthe vector i drew was this bigNov 19 13:11
karen_also, reminds me that inkscape may want to participate in the outreach program to expand its diversity :DNov 19 13:12
johan_ethe guy on your right is preparing to get up in outrageNov 19 13:12
johan_e"mine is biggER!"Nov 19 13:12
doctormonI'm trying to get out of the way of it's sizeNov 19 13:12
doctormonjohan_e: That's meNov 19 13:12
johan_eah!Nov 19 13:12
johan_ehi!Nov 19 13:12
ryanlerchjohan_e, that's doctormonNov 19 13:12
johan_e:)Nov 19 13:12
JonCruzscribus peeps, right?Nov 19 13:12
doctormonkaren_: It's a sore spot for many Free Software projects.Nov 19 13:12
JonCruzkaren_: and I'm about to rally people to author a counter to that Barbie bookNov 19 13:13
bryceJonCruz, yay!Nov 19 13:13
tedgJonCruz, http://caseyfiesler.com/2014/11/18/barbie-remixed-i-really-can-be-a-computer-engineer/Nov 19 13:13
ryanlerchJonCruz, have you seen this -- https://computer-engineer-barbie.herokuapp.com/Nov 19 13:13
karen_yeah I saw that hilariousNov 19 13:13
tedgYeah, she wrote that too.Nov 19 13:13
ryanlerchits user submitted, so some NSFWNov 19 13:13
bryceryanlerch, niceNov 19 13:14
JonCruz2hmmmNov 19 13:15
karen_anyway it's a good picture if you think it suits, just to give people a sense of what would be happeningNov 19 13:15
doctormonWe can always add bryce, tedg etc in using gimp :-PNov 19 13:17
brycefeh who needs gimpNov 19 13:17
johan_ekaren_: it's a good point. we have to remember that when we are at our own hackfest, that we have to take a nice pictureNov 19 13:18
tedgHeh, I don't think I help increase diversity in any picture :-)Nov 19 13:18
brycenot a bad idea to show some proposed feature we plan to work on.  I suppose that'll require coming up with an agenda...  so maybe we can add the graphic later.Nov 19 13:18
bryceTavmjong, we're over the hour, maybe one more short topic and call it a day?Nov 19 13:19
TavmjongDonation page?Nov 19 13:20
TavmjongIs there a mock-up yet?Nov 19 13:20
johan_ebryce: +1Nov 19 13:21
bryceScislaC, ^Nov 19 13:21
ScislaCTerrible mock I've been updating as we've gone on. https://www.dropbox.com/s/dvshnhd5algn2cb/mock1.svg?dl=0 (you might need to download)Nov 19 13:24
bryceTavmjong, maybe also do new action items if anyNov 19 13:24
ScislaCAgain, the design aspect was stopped when it was thought to look for community designers to submit ideas.Nov 19 13:25
doctormonScislaC: Do I need to show you the inkscape website? ;-)Nov 19 13:25
karen_also Bradley sent info for the paypal buttonNov 19 13:25
doctormonWith have a mockups category for svg files like the one on dropbox ScislaC. I use it all the time now.Nov 19 13:26
ScislaCdoctormon: I could easily go grab headers/footers and all of that, this was loosely thrown together.Nov 19 13:26
bryceScislaC, cool thanks for doing this!Nov 19 13:26
doctormonScislaC: https://inkscape.org/en/gallery/item/2180/Nov 19 13:27
ScislaCdoctormon: Firefox seems to lose it's mind because of jquery on our website. I always have to stop the script it seems.Nov 19 13:28
bryceone thing I notice now is that the "we need funding" plea doesn't jump outNov 19 13:28
karen_ok all I have to go, but I'll stay idle here so I can look at the logNov 19 13:28
JonCruz2ScislaC: you da person!Nov 19 13:28
johan_ekaren_: thanks for joiningNov 19 13:28
ScislaCthanks karen_Nov 19 13:28
karen_mock up looks good :)Nov 19 13:29
TavmjongWe'll need to get permission to use picture.Nov 19 13:29
bryceTavmjong, good pointNov 19 13:29
johan_eI think we've edited the first line of the pitch into an unreadable, grammatically incorrect, monster!Nov 19 13:29
TavmjongI need to go to.Nov 19 13:30
ScislaCTavmjong: indeed, I just wanted some visual placeholder... I can draw stick figures of everyone. :)Nov 19 13:30
brycedoctormon, perhaps for next week you could identify a place in the menu for this page to live?Nov 19 13:30
Tavmjongbryce, Can you post minutes? I tried last time and couldn't preserve the line feeds.Nov 19 13:30
bryceTavmjong, sureNov 19 13:31
TavmjongScislaC, I can't wait to see your stick figure characterization of everyone!Nov 19 13:31
TavmjongGood night y'all.Nov 19 13:32
ScislaCg'night Tavmjong!Nov 19 13:32
doctormonScislaC: We have a serious problem on the website at the momnent, an infine loop in the menu adjust + sub menus appearing in the main menu. Nasty stuff.Nov 19 13:32
johan_elater TavmjongNov 19 13:32
doctormonbryce: I'd like to put the campaign on the front page as well as in the community menu.Nov 19 13:32
ScislaCdoctormon: given that the menus funk out when I kill the script, that sounds about right. :)Nov 19 13:32
doctormonScislaC: They were funk'd before the script ran, the script loops because of the excessive funk ;-)Nov 19 13:33
bryce============ End of Board Meeting ============Nov 19 13:33

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