Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2018-10-05

Tavmjong=============== Board Meeting in Twenty Minutes ================Oct 05 09:40
TavmjongI may be a few minutes late...Oct 05 09:40
Mcsame (time to get home)Oct 05 09:41
*Mc sets mode -r on #inkscape-develOct 05 09:41
*Mc disables the antispamOct 05 09:41
*ryangorley sneaks in the back to listen inOct 05 10:02
ryangorleyDid I miss the board meeting?Oct 05 10:05
McnopeOct 05 10:08
Mctedg: Tavmjong: bryce: doctormon: meeting time :)Oct 05 10:09
McScisalc and crogers are not here yetOct 05 10:09
doctormonMorningOct 05 10:11
brycehiOct 05 10:12
brycelet's go ahead and get started, maybe they'll come lateOct 05 10:12
McTavmjong should arrive soonOct 05 10:12
bryce= Board Meeting =Oct 05 10:13
bryce== Agenda ==Oct 05 10:13
bryce* Past hackfests: recap.Oct 05 10:13
bryce** [http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2018_Kiel Kiel]Oct 05 10:13
bryce* Future meetings/hackfests.Oct 05 10:13
bryce** [http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/17x/ SCALE] - March 7th-10th,Oct 05 10:13
bryce   2019 (Pasadena, California)Oct 05 10:13
bryce** [http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2019/ LGM 2019] - May 30th-June 3rdOct 05 10:13
bryce   (Saarbrucken, Germany) Proposed. (About two hours by train fromOct 05 10:13
bryce   Paris.)Oct 05 10:13
bryce* InfrastructureOct 05 10:13
bryce** http://chat.inkscape.org/Oct 05 10:13
bryce* Merchandise salesOct 05 10:13
bryce** SpreadshirtOct 05 10:13
bryce** Evaluate self-serve merchandise sales - spreadshirt, cafepress,Oct 05 10:13
bryce   Golden Ribbon, Think Penguin or similar [Mc]Oct 05 10:13
bryce* Action ItemsOct 05 10:13
bryce* Other BusinessOct 05 10:13
bryce Oct 05 10:14
bryceanything missing?Oct 05 10:14
doctormonSeems goodOct 05 10:15
bryce== Kiel Hackfest recap ==Oct 05 10:15
doctormonMaren isn't here to recap. Are there any specific questions needed answering?Oct 05 10:15
brycefrom everyone's trip reports that I've read, seems like the event went very well.  Any observations / lessons learned / follow up tasks worth mentioning?Oct 05 10:16
McwellOct 05 10:16
*Tavmjong wavesOct 05 10:16
Mcbug triaging and migration roadmap and 1.0 releaseOct 05 10:17
bryceheya TavOct 05 10:17
bryceMc, yes definitelyOct 05 10:17
McI think that's the main followup tasks :pOct 05 10:17
brycemigration you're referring to lp->gitlab for bugs, right?Oct 05 10:17
McyesOct 05 10:18
TavmjongThe Kiel hackfest was great and we had a great host!Oct 05 10:18
bryceare there things to discuss on bug triaging separately from the migration?Oct 05 10:19
Mcdepends how we proceed, there is no consensus about how to do itOct 05 10:20
doctormonThe bug strat for the 1.0 release.Oct 05 10:20
brycealright I've added these items to Other Business for this meeting, we'll start tracking those going forward until resolved.Oct 05 10:20
bryceanything else on Kiel?Oct 05 10:21
brycethanks for getting the video put togetherOct 05 10:21
brycedo we have tedg  or ScislaC ?Oct 05 10:21
Mc(I was recently thinking a nice way might be to try to crowdsource the migration, with things like merch for people doing like n migrated bugs)Oct 05 10:22
Mc("migrate" meaning "check it reproduces on trunk, if yes, refill on gitlab")Oct 05 10:22
McScislaC joined like 6 mins ago so he should be aroundOct 05 10:23
bryceyeah, a checklist to follow might be goodOct 05 10:23
doctormonThat's an interesting idea for sure.Oct 05 10:23
ScislaCI'm here. If you're wondering about SCALE stuff, we literally just started pushing things forward at the conference level, so I have no updates today, I expect to within the next couple weeks.Oct 05 10:24
Mc(stickers for n=10, tshirt for n=30, something like that)Oct 05 10:24
bryce== Future Meetings / Hackfests ==Oct 05 10:25
McI hope I can make it at SCALE :)Oct 05 10:25
bryceScislaC, thanks.  But sounds like a takeaway is that the conference is definitely on, and dates are locked in?Oct 05 10:25
bryceLooking at action items from last monthOct 05 10:26
ScislaCYes, that much is locked in. It is happening and dates are 3/7-3/10.Oct 05 10:26
bryceTav, did you get a chance to set up the SCALE hackfest wiki page?Oct 05 10:26
TavmjongYes.Oct 05 10:27
brycecoolOct 05 10:27
Mchttp://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2019_SCALEOct 05 10:27
bryceaha thanksOct 05 10:27
TavmjongIf the hackfest is before SCALE I can probably attend (I'm planning on taking my youngest to visit her grandparents in Minnesota during that time).Oct 05 10:28
bryceScislaC, do you know if ted's had a chance to look into meeting options and AirBNB?Oct 05 10:29
McMoini: hi!Oct 05 10:29
MoiniHi Mc !Oct 05 10:29
tedgSorry, late.Oct 05 10:29
*tedg wavesOct 05 10:29
bryceheya tedg thanks for comingOct 05 10:29
tedgAh, so I'm even the topic ;-)Oct 05 10:30
brycetedg, we were just chatting over SCALE hackfest ideasOct 05 10:30
tedgI've been talking with the Innovate Pasadena folks about getting a space. They're reaching out to their contacts.Oct 05 10:30
tedgThey've got some good possible locations, we just need to talk with them more.Oct 05 10:30
brycetedg, that's great.  Do you have a plan B idea?Oct 05 10:30
TavmjongJTa has mentioned he's in Pasadena I think.Oct 05 10:30
tedgI found a couple of AirBNB's but they were pretty expensive.Oct 05 10:31
tedgTavmjong: yes, we've chatted a bit back and forth.Oct 05 10:31
tedgAbsolute worst case there's also a WeWork nearby, but I'm not sure if that'll be affordable.Oct 05 10:31
tedgBut we're realistically only talking about three days of needing space, so it might work out.Oct 05 10:32
tedgSCALE is Thurs - Sunday.Oct 05 10:32
Mcso hackfest could be Mon-WedOct 05 10:32
tedgSo, I guess the summary is that I've got a few things in the air, nothing concrete yet, but I'm optimistic it is feasible.Oct 05 10:32
TavmjongMon-Wed would be good!Oct 05 10:33
JTayup, I'm a socal guyOct 05 10:33
JTaya, tedg pinged me about helping out with the SCALE hackfestOct 05 10:34
ryangorleyMon-Wed would be good for me to attend as well. I'm planning to present at SCALE again (if they'll have me)Oct 05 10:35
bryceJTa, that's awesome, thanks!  Would you be willing to help fillin some of the fields in http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2019_SCALE like nearby amenities and hotels?Oct 05 10:35
tedgThey're going to do another Libre Graphics Track probably on Friday. So it'd be good for people to submit talks.Oct 05 10:35
JTaYup...I'm in the middle of the busy fall season for live events so I'm a bit busy even though I lurk here...Oct 05 10:36
ScislaCAre we talking the Mon-Wed before or after or either?Oct 05 10:37
tedgI was thinking before.Oct 05 10:38
brycemy kid's spring break is last week of March; shame SCALE isn't like 2 weeks later, they could get an amusement park visit out of itOct 05 10:38
TavmjongGreater chance I can show up if before.Oct 05 10:38
ScislaCIf it's before I could probably get a room at the venue tues-wed (no guarantees on internet before Wed though). I can check with Ilan to see what's available and when if it's of interest.Oct 05 10:39
tedgIf bryce comes we have to go to JPL ;-)Oct 05 10:39
ScislaC+1 on that!Oct 05 10:39
ScislaC:POct 05 10:40
bryceI'll have to dig up my caltech cardOct 05 10:40
brycewonder if they still let us host visitorsOct 05 10:40
bryceok, let's pencil in the days prior to the event, although guessing it'll depend on venue availabilityOct 05 10:40
tedgI'll hide in your backpack.Oct 05 10:41
ScislaCI'll also ping Ilan about conference registration for interested hackfest folks.Oct 05 10:41
ryangorleyScislaC: Do you think we can get a booth again this year?Oct 05 10:41
bryceted, keep conversing with them so we can get this nailed down, it'd be nice if people could start arranging flights by year's endOct 05 10:41
tedgbryce: +1, yup. I'd really like to get it nailed down before the CFP for SCALE closes for folks.Oct 05 10:42
bryceyeah that's a good thoughtOct 05 10:42
tedgThought really, if you're somewhat interested, submit. You can cancel if needed.Oct 05 10:42
ScislaCryangorley: we'll have a booth, I'm going to try for double (two booths) since us Libre Graphics folks rep multiple projects and the booth was a little crowded last year.Oct 05 10:43
ryangorleyScislaC: AwesomeOct 05 10:43
Mcryangorley: (btw, did you put the banner sources up somewhere ?)Oct 05 10:43
bryceI think we probably need to try to have a plan ready to vote on by next meeting, else I think we'll get behind the curve with holidays and whatnotOct 05 10:43
doctormonI wonder if they let MIT people into JPL.Oct 05 10:43
ryangorleyMc: Haha, fail from me on that one. I finally got the website up to put the source up.Oct 05 10:44
ScislaCbryce: agreedOct 05 10:44
brycehi ryangorley Oct 05 10:44
*ryangorley waves :)Oct 05 10:44
Mcbryce: how are our finances wrt number of hackfests per year ?Oct 05 10:44
tedgdoctormon: Perhaps, but not people with sweaters for their teapots ;-)Oct 05 10:44
doctormonGosh darn it!Oct 05 10:45
Mc(in/out, not "amount in bank")Oct 05 10:45
bryceMc, that's a good question, I haven't looked at the books in a while, not sureOct 05 10:46
bryceI meant to get feedback for ryangorley on how fundraising went.  I'll try to do that today so the info will be available for tomorrow's meeting.Oct 05 10:47
ryangorleyThanks bryceOct 05 10:47
bryceACTION: Review hackfest fundraising in/out progress [bryce]Oct 05 10:47
brycewouldn't it be great if this hackfest could focus entirely on post-1.0 planning :-DOct 05 10:48
Mchaha not happening :pOct 05 10:48
bryceyeah...Oct 05 10:48
brycealright, well anything else on hackfests to discuss?Oct 05 10:49
doctormonAny hackfest next year other than SCALE?Oct 05 10:49
brycetedg, ScislaC I'll carry your action items forward; maybe plan on sending an email to the board within the next week on status?Oct 05 10:49
tedgSounds good.Oct 05 10:50
TavmjongLGMOct 05 10:50
bryceMay 30th-June 3rdOct 05 10:50
brycehmm, they're going to be kind of closeOct 05 10:50
TavmjongSaarbrucken is pretty centrally located in Europe. Most (all?) the people in Kiel would probably attend.Oct 05 10:51
doctormonMaybe roll both events into one Hackfest?Oct 05 10:51
doctormonSpring 2019 event season :-DOct 05 10:52
brycehahOct 05 10:52
bryceyeah US squad and Euro squadOct 05 10:52
McFrom my raft release plan, scale would be after the beginning of the bug hunt and lgm would be release ateOct 05 10:52
Mcdate*Oct 05 10:52
Mcdraft*Oct 05 10:52
TavmjongWe can have a Ryder's cup of hacking.Oct 05 10:52
brycewell, if we're concerned about finances, it might actually make sense to have people focus on the one closest ot them geographicallyOct 05 10:52
bryceMc, ok coolOct 05 10:53
brycebeing able to announce 1.0 at LGM would be niceOct 05 10:53
Mcthat's the plan :)Oct 05 10:53
doctormonSo focus hackfests on deep freeze bug hacking?Oct 05 10:53
Mcif hackfest at LGM it would be on post-1.0Oct 05 10:54
brycehonestly even March is probably going to be a bit late for bug hackingOct 05 10:54
McI was thinking of a 3month-long bug hunt (March-May) with the month of june to prep everything for releaseOct 05 10:55
bryceby then the list should hopefully be winnowed down pretty small.  By then maybe should be down to spit and polish type stuffOct 05 10:55
Mcanyway we can go back to the topicOct 05 10:57
bryceyeah, maybe we could trade some emailsOct 05 10:57
bryce== Infrastructure ==Oct 05 10:57
bryceTavmjong, looks like you added http://chat.inkscape.org/ to the agenda, did you have some thinking to share?Oct 05 10:58
TavmjongThere has been some discussion about the new chat server. Some worries that it will "split" the community.Oct 05 10:58
bryce*nod*Oct 05 10:59
TavmjongI was orignaly a bit skeptical about it but as I've used it, I really like it.Oct 05 10:59
Mcit's mattermost, right ?Oct 05 10:59
bryceMc, similarOct 05 10:59
ryangorleyMc: Rocket.ChatOct 05 10:59
McahOct 05 10:59
Mcdo they also have an IRC bridge ?Oct 05 10:59
ScislaCWe used to do both jabber and IRC and I don't recall that being an issue then.Oct 05 11:00
TavmjongThe biggest advantage is that it allows one to come back later and catch up.Oct 05 11:00
MoiniMc: how can you use June to prep for release if LGM ends at the beginning of June?Oct 05 11:00
TavmjongI get a bit frustrated with IRC when someone asks a question and then disappears.Oct 05 11:00
bryceyeah I like that feature, it works better than a similar capability in mattermostOct 05 11:00
Tavmjong.. only to reappear later.Oct 05 11:00
bryceTavmjong, totally agreedOct 05 11:01
doctormonThe only concern is that our community grows such that parts of it are not aware of what's happening in other parts. If vectors is on chat.inkscape.org and dev happens on ML, then not so much of a problem.Oct 05 11:01
TavmjongAlso, a lot of people don't keep an IRC window open so are hard to catch.Oct 05 11:01
TavmjongI know at one time some people didn't like the ideal of keeping a public IRC log.Oct 05 11:02
McMoini: mmh, true, I got some dates wrong :pOct 05 11:02
doctormonPart of my feels like we could scrap the mailing list in favour of a gitlab issues tracker/merges plus rocket chat.Oct 05 11:02
Tavmjong(I also really like GitHub issues, I imagine GitLab is the same.)Oct 05 11:02
doctormonThat hurts because of all the time we've spent on Mailman3, but it might be the right thing to do to reduce our community's surface area.Oct 05 11:03
Ede_123ML for threaded discussion is really usefulOct 05 11:03
brycedoctormon, I've idly wondered those thoughts too; maintaining mailman will be an ongoing chore.  But mailing lists do have an important purpose, it'd probably be pretty weird doing without them.Oct 05 11:03
Mc+1 for MLOct 05 11:03
Ede_123I don't think chat or issue tracker could handle thatOct 05 11:03
Mcalso email clients have convenience that web-based stuff don'tOct 05 11:04
doctormonIt's not unreasonable to keep a mailing list, there are advantages to email.Oct 05 11:04
Mclike "it's email, not chat, so people spend time writing" ^^Oct 05 11:05
doctormonEde_123: The threaded stuff would move to gitlab in this senarioOct 05 11:05
brycewhile the last couple years have not seen as heavy use of the mailing lists, some years ago it was very heavily used.  I suspect if development picks up again, mailing lists may become a preferred channel again.Oct 05 11:05
Mcdoctormon: threaded discussions ?Oct 05 11:05
brycepart of it I blame on SourceForge being flaky.  Lots of people have had misc. troubles with it.Oct 05 11:05
Ede_123doctormon: yeah, but issue trackers are mor "disciplined" (more structured, denser information, less discussion)Oct 05 11:06
Mccrogers: hi!Oct 05 11:06
TavmjongThere is talk of an IRC/RocketChat bridge... does that actually exist? How would it work as RocketChat seems to be a lot more expressive?Oct 05 11:06
doctormonWell in terms of linking to other issues as they get spun out, but year it's not a spikey tree.Oct 05 11:06
crogersHi. Sorry, did I miss the meeting?Oct 05 11:06
doctormoncrogers: this is the meeting!Oct 05 11:06
ryangorleyMc: Tavmjong: I think there is a IRC bridge built in, but I can't find any documentation on it. Not sure how well it works.Oct 05 11:06
crogerscool.Oct 05 11:06
McTavmjong: there is an IRC module I thinkOct 05 11:07
TavmjongDoes it work both ways?Oct 05 11:07
McyesOct 05 11:07
Mc(if it works at all, it works both ways)Oct 05 11:07
Mccrogers: you're only 1j late :)Oct 05 11:08
Mc1h*Oct 05 11:08
doctormonEde_123: It's not a perfect fit, but energy wise, we could gain a lot by simplifyingOct 05 11:08
crogersMc: Yea, that's what the sorry was for. ;POct 05 11:08
doctormonWe could also let it die by lack of use :-DOct 05 11:08
bryceI'd seen some IRC/mattermost bridges set up, but none that really were pleasing enough for everyoneOct 05 11:09
Mccrogers: (and next month it'll be at 6pm european time, 1h earlier)Oct 05 11:09
crogersRendering out Hackfest vid #2 right now.Oct 05 11:09
crogersand I fell asleep.Oct 05 11:09
dave24Sophos vs untangle vs fortinet?Oct 05 11:09
ryangorleycrogers: woohoo!Oct 05 11:09
*Mc sets ban on *!*dave24@160.242.134.*Oct 05 11:09
*Mc has kicked dave24 from #inkscape-devel (dave24)Oct 05 11:09
bryceok, bringing the convo back around, the question is if the additional channels are going to result in splitting the communityOct 05 11:10
Ede_123I wouldn't mind dropping IRC in favour of Rocket.ChatOct 05 11:10
McI think we can keep the "mostly dev" from the "mostly non-dev" apartOct 05 11:11
Mcwithout too much troubleOct 05 11:11
doctormon@bryce - we could do a network map of active users on each key platforms, that would give us a good topology and answer the question.Oct 05 11:11
brycethis is something I've wondered about for a while now, and have been keeping an eye out for evidence, but so far things seem to be going ok, so I'm not super worried about itOct 05 11:11
Ede_123dev works well on Rocket.Chat already ;-)Oct 05 11:11
bryceI'm kind of game for letting things proceed naturally, if it's a better platform maybe discussions will migrate themselves over there Oct 05 11:12
bryceif IRC has advantages, discussions will stay mostly thereOct 05 11:12
tedg+1, I don't think we know enough yet to make a decision.Oct 05 11:12
doctormonMy intuition is that they will, so I'm happy to be Darwinian.Oct 05 11:13
Mc(I'm on like 50 channels on IRC on a single client on 4 servers for almost everything I want to discuss, and it would be a pain for me to have to get to a specific platform for a specific purpose)Oct 05 11:13
bryceif there are problems, people will raise complaints and we can figure things out as we goOct 05 11:13
doctormonI'd like board meetings to move to Rocket.Chat, for logging.Oct 05 11:13
Ede_123Mc: also true... but then we need the bridgeOct 05 11:13
Ede_123or close the dev channel on rocket chatOct 05 11:13
Mcbridge would be fine for me, my only requirement is for me to join by IRC even if it's ugly for meOct 05 11:14
Ede_123(e.g. you already have no idea what we talked about ;-)Oct 05 11:14
ScislaCI'm not spread as thin as Mc, but yeah, all my realtime discussion stuff is in one place currently and splitting it isn't appealing.Oct 05 11:14
doctormonHeh, we could just start a channel called #Inkscape_chat_for_mc and just pile messages into it :-DOct 05 11:14
Mc(actually I have a second place, which is thunderbird)Oct 05 11:14
Mc^^Oct 05 11:15
ryangorleyMc: there is a pidgin plugin for rocket.chat: https://pidgin.im/Oct 05 11:15
doctormonThe problem is also two-way, would IRC folk be ok going into chat.inkscape.org to post a message?Oct 05 11:15
crogersRocketchat will probably work better in the long run, since it saves what was said. I miss most of what's said here.Oct 05 11:16
bryceok, lots more to discuss here, but let's move onOct 05 11:16
bryce== Merchandise Sales ==Oct 05 11:17
*crogers hides.Oct 05 11:17
brycecrogers :-)Oct 05 11:17
*crogers peeks out. Um... :)Oct 05 11:17
brycecrogers, been a busy month :-)Oct 05 11:17
Mccrogers: you could see my shirtOct 05 11:17
crogersSo, two things to report.Oct 05 11:17
brycecrogers, go for itOct 05 11:17
crogersOne: Mc's shirt was *ok*Oct 05 11:18
crogersSo spreadshirt was not as bad as I was assuming.Oct 05 11:18
crogersTherefore we can probably run with it for now, with no major complaints.Oct 05 11:18
crogersEven the inkscape pin was not that bad. And the main advantage is there's no work for us.Oct 05 11:19
crogersSecond thing: Inkscape Polo shirt is still in the works.Oct 05 11:20
MoiniThat was the stitched one, right?Oct 05 11:20
ScislaCDoes rocketchat just use the website credentials?Oct 05 11:20
crogersThey contacted me again a few days ago and asked if they could proceed with what they made (which I showed people at the hackfest)Oct 05 11:21
Mcseparate onesOct 05 11:21
crogersMoini, yepOct 05 11:21
MoiniAh. Didn't see it at the hackfest, I think.Oct 05 11:21
crogersI agreed with the assesment that the logo wasn't quite good enough.Oct 05 11:21
crogersSo I sent them a simplified vector.Oct 05 11:21
crogersI think they dug the wrong one off the internet.Oct 05 11:22
bryceScislaC, noOct 05 11:22
crogersI think they got this unfortunate looking one: https://image4.owler.com/logo/inkscape_owler_20171114_083724_original.pngOct 05 11:23
brycecrogers, that's a relief to hear with spreadshirt.  Think we can officially announce it within the month?  Then everyone can get their Inkscape shirts for xmas ;-)Oct 05 11:23
crogersbryce: Yep. One thing I think I'll do is get rid of the shadow, because it turns into a glow on the black shirt.Oct 05 11:24
brycecrogers, was that stitched shirt through hellotux.com?  You mentioned you were going to check them out?Oct 05 11:24
brycedoctormon, you had an action to check about sticker production with Conservancy; did you get a chance to trade emails with them yet?Oct 05 11:25
ryangorleybryce: Apparently conservency doesn't know anything about the stickers.Oct 05 11:26
bryceughOct 05 11:26
ryangorleybryce: We'll need to get anything that was started going again.Oct 05 11:26
bryceryangorley, can I send you the emails to follow up on?Oct 05 11:27
crogersHere's the sample they came up with: https://imgur.com/a/6iqSs3POct 05 11:27
crogers(the one I showed at the hackfest)Oct 05 11:27
ryangorleybryce: Sure. Martin put me in contact with someone there. I'm not sure what artwork was sent originally.Oct 05 11:27
crogersbryce, yes, it's hellotux.Oct 05 11:27
doctormonbryce: We checked, conservancy didn't know anything.Oct 05 11:28
ryangorleybryce: I'll forward you the last email I got.Oct 05 11:28
bryceryangorley, ok.  I'm sure I have some emails between us and them, I'll forward those backOct 05 11:28
bryceif I can find themOct 05 11:28
doctormonBasically we had voted on $100 worth of stickers, but this was before their new ticketing systemOct 05 11:28
doctormonMaybe we should just push a few designs into their ticketing systemOct 05 11:29
doctormonHonestly they wanted us to order them and ask for reimbursements as an easier method for them.Oct 05 11:29
brycecrogers, good work getting the sample arranged.  It doesn't look too bad to my eyes, so if you have ways to make it even better it'll rock.  How fair do you feel the pricing is on it?Oct 05 11:30
crogersbryce, well, I would buy one. :)Oct 05 11:30
crogersAnd the price is what it is. THey are like spreadshirt in that they handle everything. They are not this massive company though.Oct 05 11:31
crogersAnd they do this for a lot of other FLOSS projects.Oct 05 11:31
crogersSo they get top marks from me, really.Oct 05 11:31
brycecrogers, ok cool.  Sounds like you think we should proceed with them.  Have you identified next steps?Oct 05 11:32
crogersbryce, well, I'm going to give them another week to get back to me about a second sample.Oct 05 11:32
bryceokOct 05 11:33
crogersThen I'll poke them again, and see where we are.Oct 05 11:33
crogersIf I have not heard back.Oct 05 11:33
bryceI suppose we'll need a board vote at some point after that, when a plan's nailed downOct 05 11:33
crogersWould we like to give them our blessing to do this, regardless of if they increase the quality?Oct 05 11:33
bryceI assume we'll need to coordinate with conservancy on the bank sideOct 05 11:33
crogers(or the acuracy of the mark)Oct 05 11:33
brycethe shirts sell for $38, right?Oct 05 11:35
bryce+$8 shippingOct 05 11:35
brycewow, ships from HungaryOct 05 11:36
crogersYea, I'll sort that out with them as a next step.Oct 05 11:36
crogersAnd yes, that's about right.Oct 05 11:36
bryce6-20 daysOct 05 11:36
ryangorleyMaybe we need a US distributor too. That's kind of a lot for a tee.Oct 05 11:36
crogersYea, I have no doubt we could get a price break if we bought in bulk.Oct 05 11:36
bryceryangorley, maybe yeah, although note this is a stitched polo, not a teeOct 05 11:37
crogersYea, not a tee.Oct 05 11:37
ryangorleyOh, okay, that's more reasonableOct 05 11:37
bryceany idea on how much gets donated to the project?Oct 05 11:37
brycealso I wonder if shipping is less for EU folksOct 05 11:39
crogersI've asked all those questions, but have only gotten a sample so far. :)Oct 05 11:39
doctormonHow would we present this to the users on the website?Oct 05 11:39
Mcthat's a question for the Website TeamOct 05 11:40
McI'll forward that question to Martin, he's also good at UI designOct 05 11:40
brycecrogers, ahh.  At least you're on top of it.  :-)Oct 05 11:40
doctormon:-)Oct 05 11:40
crogersactually, They did answer, I just missed it.Oct 05 11:41
crogersOnesec..Oct 05 11:41
crogers> 1. Do you already have a payment process worked out with SFC forOct 05 11:41
brycecrogers, ok maybe you're on the side of it ;-)Oct 05 11:41
crogers> donation money?  It would be preferable to have the payments to usOct 05 11:41
crogers> (the Inkscape project) be direct to SFC rather than through PaypalOct 05 11:41
crogers> since we'll lose a big chunk on the transaction fees.Oct 05 11:41
crogersthey answered: We are now using the following methods for royalty/donation payments:Oct 05 11:42
crogers- SEPA transfer within the European UnionOct 05 11:42
crogers- SWIFT payment in US dollars to other countriesOct 05 11:42
crogers- PayPalOct 05 11:42
bryceSWIFT would workOct 05 11:42
brycewe can get that arranged with conservancyOct 05 11:42
crogersbryce, coolOct 05 11:42
brycedoing it as a royalty/donation should be more straightforward for us, than what we've got with spreadshirtOct 05 11:43
McyepOct 05 11:43
crogersHere are the prices they quoted (direct sales from their website to the buyer)Oct 05 11:43
crogers- Polo shirts: 33 EUR / 38 USDOct 05 11:43
crogers- T-shirts: 29 EUR / 33 USDOct 05 11:43
crogers- Sweatshirts: 45 EUR / 55 USDOct 05 11:43
MoiniI wonder why they don't advertise how much of the price goes to the projects. I'd want to know before I buy.Oct 05 11:43
crogersThey  donate 3 EUR to the project from the price of each product.Oct 05 11:44
crogersWhich is fine, I think.Oct 05 11:44
MoiniThanks, crogers. Where did you find that info?Oct 05 11:45
brycecrogers, ok, can you summarize that in an email to me?  I'll turn that into a board vote for giving them our blessingOct 05 11:45
bryceMoini, he contacted them directly aiuiOct 05 11:45
bryceACTION: Email Bryce with evaluation/details about hellotux.com merchandise service, for preparing board vote [crogers]Oct 05 11:46
crogersYea, I can forward that email to whoever is interested.Oct 05 11:46
crogersIs that easier?Oct 05 11:46
bryceACTION: Board vote on hellotux.com [bryce]Oct 05 11:47
Mcvote ?Oct 05 11:47
brycecrogers, if you can state it in your own words, I can paste that in for the background section of the voteOct 05 11:48
Mccrogers: send it to inkscape-board ?Oct 05 11:48
crogersSure.Oct 05 11:48
ryangorleyDo you want to keep the door open for a US distributor? I may be able to help on that front.Oct 05 11:48
Mcryangorley: we close no doorsOct 05 11:48
bryceryangorley, sure, or an alternate vendor would be fine.  We're not signing any exclusive merch deals or anything :-)Oct 05 11:49
crogersYea, this also does not mean we can't diy a huge batch of shirts through another online embroidering company, it's just we have to diy all the shipping. :)Oct 05 11:49
brycerightOct 05 11:49
bryceok looking over action items...Oct 05 11:49
bryceMc, you'd thought about looking into Golden Ribbon or Think Penguin.  Anyone had a chance to peruse them?Oct 05 11:50
bryce(oh, and cafepress too, although guessing that'll be duplicative of spreadshirt)Oct 05 11:50
ryangorleyMc, okay. I'm more connected on this side. I think we can work out some better pricing and better royalties. I'm also planned to seek the approval to license the mark on my own tee-shirt store: https://geeknook.com (being built)Oct 05 11:51
doctormonryangorley: You setting up a merch business?Oct 05 11:52
ryangorleydoctormon: not custom stuff, just scratching a creative itch and wanting to get some decent FOSS shirts out on the market. Not crazy about what's out there.Oct 05 11:53
crogersryangorley, sounds interesting.Oct 05 11:54
crogersI have some ideas too.Oct 05 11:54
ryangorley^^ Not trying to profit on the project or change topic. If I can work something out, I'd like to see more go to Inkscape.Oct 05 11:55
bryceok, sounds like a lot of good momentum on the merchandise front, next month or two should be very interestingOct 05 11:55
bryceanything else on merch?Oct 05 11:55
crogersNot from this end.Oct 05 11:55
Mcdid I ? ^^Oct 05 11:55
bryce== Action Items ==Oct 05 11:55
crogersOh, Mc asked for changes to the video.Oct 05 11:56
doctormoncrogers + ryangorley: set up a meeting and invite others.Oct 05 11:56
crogersbut that can wait a minute.Oct 05 11:56
brycewe already covered actions for merch and hackfestsOct 05 11:56
Mccrogers: ah yeah, nothing fancy, just the inkscape logo on black background and a thanks and the linkOct 05 11:56
brycedoctormo, you had an action on an outreachy project proposal - that got finished iirc?Oct 05 11:56
doctormonYes, we have a description.Oct 05 11:57
brycevote for that got finalized.  Not sure if stuff got done in time for the dec deadline, but guess others can work details out from there.Oct 05 11:58
bryceok, rest of action items are related to the release, which we'll talk about in Other BusinessOct 05 11:58
bryce== Other Business ==Oct 05 11:58
McI'm in the process of asking my employer (a public school) to "officially" give me time to contribute (20%), and my n+1 (who is not the one deciding) asked me if the school would/could have a logo on the sponsor page if they decided on it (just stating that they support Inkscape by hiring me part-time on it), I guess that would need a board decision ?Oct 05 11:58
brycethat's awesome, Mc!Oct 05 11:59
MoiniWhoo! That would be cool!Oct 05 11:59
doctormonI believe that's a valid sponsorship. From the moral perspective it depend if the school is directing your work or if you are.Oct 05 11:59
Mc20% would be 1day/weekOct 05 11:59
*ryangorley has to leave, waves goodbyeOct 05 11:59
Mcthey would not be directing anything on the inkscape sideOct 05 11:59
MoiniBye ryangorley!Oct 05 11:59
bryceryangorley, thanks for coming; will send that email if/when I find itOct 05 11:59
doctormonSo it's a sponsorshipOct 05 12:00
TavmjongMc, We can definitely put the school logo on!Oct 05 12:00
Mc(20% of my annual salary would be >5k€ )Oct 05 12:00
crogerslater ryangorley !Oct 05 12:00
Mcok then I'll answer that it's possible ^^Oct 05 12:00
crogersYea, that would be an ideal sort of donation. :)Oct 05 12:01
doctormonIt's a thing we /would/ do if you were to be sponsored for the year.Oct 05 12:01
Moini5000 is gold. " your logo and link would be added in rotation to the website front page OR downloads page for a year. One news article will be published in thanks of your business.Oct 05 12:01
Moini"Oct 05 12:01
tedgI'm +1, and I don't think it matters if they're directing work really.Oct 05 12:01
crogersYea, +1 here tooOct 05 12:01
crogersNice one, Mc. :)Oct 05 12:01
bryce+1 for me as wellOct 05 12:01
TavmjongMaybe they can give you a raise so they can be a Platinum sponsor!Oct 05 12:02
MchahaOct 05 12:02
MoiniWe don't have any rotation or dl page logo code in the website yet, AFAIK.Oct 05 12:02
Mchow much is platinium ?Oct 05 12:02
doctormon(tedg: if they direct the work then it's employment, which is also ok, but is a bit different from sponsorship. Imagine if someone paid me $10k to fix css bugs, should I/they get a spot)Oct 05 12:02
Moini10000: https://inkscape.org/en/support-us/sponsors/Oct 05 12:02
tedgdoctormon: I would argue that if you're working on Inkscape, yes. That's basically what we'd worked out with bryce sponsored project plan.Oct 05 12:03
McI'll need a steep change in the EUR/USD rate to reach that in usdOct 05 12:03
MoiniMc: or a raise in salary :)Oct 05 12:04
Mcpublic employer, so I'm not counting on thatOct 05 12:04
brycea news item for the website might be nice tooOct 05 12:04
Moinibryce: it would be required, unless they don't want it.Oct 05 12:05
bryceMoini, ok good dealOct 05 12:05
Moini(as by our own rules at https://inkscape.org/en/support-us/sponsors/)Oct 05 12:05
brycethanks for looking that upOct 05 12:05
Mcwell, we can count them along with the infra stuff with no news articles :pOct 05 12:06
crogersMc: Here's the new outtro: https://www.dropbox.com/s/39qol4h8427npc8/outtro_sequence_sample.mp4?dl=1Oct 05 12:07
Mcanyway, that's not approved yet, I'll tell you as soon as I have news about thatOct 05 12:07
Mcany other business  ? ^^Oct 05 12:07
doctormonMc: you can tell hopefully that we're excited by the prospect.Oct 05 12:07
crogerswith your changes. I added a fade out to just the logo screen, tagline and website.Oct 05 12:07
bryceMc, thanks sounds good.  And let us know if you need anything on our end.Oct 05 12:08
Mccrogers: great :)Oct 05 12:08
bryce* Other BusinessOct 05 12:08
bryce  + Inkscape 1.0 alpha release & bug strategyOct 05 12:08
bryce  + Migration of bugs from LP to gitlabOct 05 12:08
bryce  + Bug triaging generallyOct 05 12:08
McI'm praying that they won't involve lawyersOct 05 12:08
Mcbryce: so bugs, bugs, and bugsOct 05 12:09
brycethese topics are all pretty deep, and the meeting is already over time, but are there any near term action items worth tracking on any of these?Oct 05 12:09
MoiniWe shouldn't forget to thank donors... I just noticed that even the news article doesn't do that.Oct 05 12:09
bryceMoini, definitely agreedOct 05 12:09
McMoini: yeah, that was I asked CR for the outroOct 05 12:09
crogersMoini, just added to the video template.Oct 05 12:09
MoiniI meant the one for the hackfest.Oct 05 12:09
crogersMoini: https://www.dropbox.com/s/39qol4h8427npc8/outtro_sequence_sample.mp4?dl=1Oct 05 12:09
crogersThis clip should make you happy. :)Oct 05 12:10
bryceI kind of wish we had someone in a formal role for doing sponsor management.  I think others have expressed similar ideas.Oct 05 12:10
MoiniYes, I know. I meant we should edit the news for that part.Oct 05 12:10
McMoini: good ideaOct 05 12:10
crogersYea, feel freeOct 05 12:10
MoiniI will...Oct 05 12:10
Mcbryce: someone looking for sponsors ?Oct 05 12:10
bryceMc, that might be part of it, but the main need is for following up with prospective sponsors who come to us, and following up with existing ones to make sure their needs are met, and encourage them to re-upOct 05 12:11
brycethat sort of thingOct 05 12:11
Mc@looking for, it would probably be better to have someone in the US as I don't think donations to SFC would be tax-deductible elsewhereOct 05 12:11
bryceouttro looks really niceOct 05 12:12
bryceMc, I had sent you an email with some thoughts on bug management for the alpha release; would love to get your feedback on that.  Or shoot me the draft of the plan you've been working on.Oct 05 12:13
McsureOct 05 12:14
bryceonce I finalize the 2geom 1.0 release I'll make that my focus.Oct 05 12:14
crogersbryce, thanks. :)Oct 05 12:14
Mcno .92.4 then ?Oct 05 12:14
bryceMc, Ede had suggested the priority on that was a bit lower due to not so many changes since .3, but releasing .4 shouldn't be very time consuming if it's worth getting out of the way firstOct 05 12:16
brycewas thinking maybe in process of doing the 1.0alpha, it might scare up a few backportable bugs for 0.92.4, maybeOct 05 12:17
brycebut either order's fine for meOct 05 12:17
crogersVIdeo side note: I've switched to KdenLive for final video compositing work. I think this will be easier for other people in the project to use than Blender, which is what I usually use.Oct 05 12:17
crogersIt's much easier and much much more performant for simple compositing.Oct 05 12:18
bryceregarding the lp->gitlab migration, there's been a lot of different ideas discussed, and while we don't yet have a firm plan, regardless it's going to be a big effort, so I'm kinda leaning towards procrastination there.Oct 05 12:19
crogersThe only real drawback is that the only good version runs on Linux at the moment.Oct 05 12:19
bryceone thing that could be done right now would be a test-import of bugs from LP into a temp (disposable) gitlab project, just to experiment with the procedure.  That'd probably help guide some of the decisionmaking a lot.Oct 05 12:20
doctormon-1 importing data from launchpad.Oct 05 12:21
Ede_123I'm actually becoming sceptical myself there...Oct 05 12:21
Ede_123Maybe we could just keep Launchpad open?Oct 05 12:21
Ede_123Bug are sorted nicely thereOct 05 12:21
Ede_123(Not open to file new bugs, just so the content is stil lthere an searchable)Oct 05 12:22
Ede_123if we tell people to got to GitLab to file their bugs it shouldn't be a problem if there is no read-only modeOct 05 12:22
crogersomg, just got the worst review ever for Inkscape. Shame too, this guy has a LOT of subscribers.Oct 05 12:23
bryceEde_123, there is no read-only mode that I could find.  We can modify the language on the new bug form, and guide them to a different tracker, but doesn't look like we can turn it offOct 05 12:23
Ede_123yes, that's what I meant...Oct 05 12:23
Ede_123gthis is what I've done for devlibs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape-devlibs/+filebugOct 05 12:24
Ede_123should be obvious ;-)Oct 05 12:24
doctormonI liked Mc's idea of rewarding people for testing issues and transposing them to gitlab. I thought that was genious.Oct 05 12:25
Mcwe would still need a good tutorial on howto and many people :pOct 05 12:25
Mccrogers: ?Oct 05 12:25
doctormonA user/community effort wrangler...Oct 05 12:25
brycedoctormon, I think you made a bad assumption about what I was talking aboutOct 05 12:26
doctormonbryce: Sorry bryce, my mistake.Oct 05 12:26
crogersMc, you want me to make a tutorial video?Oct 05 12:26
Mcfirst need to make installers for an alpha versionOct 05 12:27
doctormonI thought we'd done a test import using other projects like inkscape-web.Oct 05 12:27
brycedoctormon, a proposal someone had made was to do a mechanical import of the bugs into gitlab, in order to facilitate a manual migration.  The question was whether there was toolage that would permit that, so the task would be to JFDI and see if it's feasible at all.Oct 05 12:27
bryceinto a temp projectOct 05 12:27
Ede_123bryce: I was actually promoting the idea. But it costs effort to migrate and it looses information - so why do it at all?Oct 05 12:28
brycedoctormon, right this would be for inkscape bugs themselves.  Sounds like the bugs themselves should come in ok, but Q's about milestones and whatnot.Oct 05 12:28
Ede_123(especially if we won't really use those bugs)Oct 05 12:28
doctormonbryce: It's messy, we can't set the users, we can't set the date/timestamps. There's bits of meta-data that has to be plugged into the comment field manually.Oct 05 12:29
crogersThe great bug migration.Oct 05 12:29
*crogers hears Lion King intro musicOct 05 12:29
Ede_123If we do the migration manual / crowd-sourced people will probably be able to do the job more efficiently using the original Launchpad tracker to source their work fromOct 05 12:29
doctormonEde_123: +1Oct 05 12:29
Mcagreed ("if" we manage to crowdsource it)Oct 05 12:30
brycehttps://gitlab.com/inkscape/infra/services/issues/3Oct 05 12:30
bryce^^ leaving the bugs in LP as-is and manually migrating bugs manually was the solution I was pushing from the start, so it's great people are agreeing with me.  The issues you raise with doing a side-import are issues I worried about too.Oct 05 12:32
MoiniI'm not going to be a copy-paste monkey...Oct 05 12:32
MoiniMove - yes.Oct 05 12:32
Moini(well, at least that's my current opinion)Oct 05 12:33
doctormonNo bug should be copied and pasted anyway. It should be 're-test' + 're-file'Oct 05 12:33
brycethere were a LOT of holes poked into my proposal though, so I'm trying to find ways forward that address those concernsOct 05 12:33
bryceor prove/disprove alternate ideas such as the side-importOct 05 12:33
Ede_123bryce: I think the main problem is, that in the end there is no really good way to do the migration. Many ideas sound great on paper but begin to crumble as soon as one starts to think them through.Oct 05 12:36
MoiniUpdated the article.Oct 05 12:36
Ede_123It's unfortunate, but I'm at a point where I feel a clear cut (with the crowd-sourced part) might actually make the most senseOct 05 12:36
Ede_123Moini: "Pay for future hackfests" sounds a bit direct, I'd use "If you want to support future hackfests" ;-)Oct 05 12:38
bryceFTR, my original suggestion was, "Personally, I like the second option best. It would take the least effort - we just enable gitlab issues and start focusing our developer attention there. Issues are pulled from Launchpad as there is time/motivation/interest to do so, and whomever pulls them in can re-summarize and improve the bug report to ensure gitlab contains only high quality reports, that our developers actually Oct 05 12:39
brycefeel are worthwhile to work on in the immediate term."Oct 05 12:39
bryceMoini, you raised some of the best points against that.  I'd be interested in hearing if your thinking has changed?Oct 05 12:39
MoiniEde123 Thanks!Oct 05 12:40
bryceone item you mentioned was what will motivate people to do the migration work, which is a really good question.   I don't know for sure, although maybe knowing that it's the way to get attention from a devel on the issue would be enough in some cases?Oct 05 12:40
MoiniI think that's not motivation, but pressuring.Oct 05 12:41
Ede_123Max had a good idea during the hackfestOct 05 12:41
Ede_123We could use the 1.0 release to motivate people to file issues they can still reproduce in the nice and shiny new versionOct 05 12:41
MoiniIt was a very kind message, that he wanted to add to all bugs, as far as I remember.Oct 05 12:41
Ede_123exactlyOct 05 12:42
bryceanother concern was that inevitably this will result in a large loss of information, which is legitimate.  If we keep LP turned on, then at least the info isn't gone, just hiddenOct 05 12:42
Ede_123But not just nice but motivated through our new major release to take the edge of the message the tracker will be closedOct 05 12:42
doctormonNice is always goodOct 05 12:43
MoiniIt must be kept turned on - how would people be able to copy ... erm retest if they don't have access?Oct 05 12:43
Mcyes it will have to be kept onOct 05 12:44
bryceit'd be nice if LP could be closed to filing new bugs, although to be honest I think it wouldn't be the end of the world if we had new bug reports getting filed in two places for a while, as we transitionOct 05 12:46
doctormonbryce: Each new bug in LP should have a kindly message pointing people towards GitLab. It's what we do for inkscape-web (and now extensions bugs)Oct 05 12:46
bryceit's an annoyance for triagers having to check two sites, but honestly I'd have no expectations that anyone would need to keep triaging on LP if they prefer gitlab.Oct 05 12:46
Mcthe rate of incoming bugs is ok to close them as they arriveOct 05 12:47
MoiniWe need a clear deadline for closing which can be announced in those messages.Oct 05 12:47
brycedoctormon, aha you're right there is a text field for acknowledgement text to send to the reporter.  It's currently empty but we could use that to direct them to gitlabOct 05 12:48
bryceMoini, for closing LP?Oct 05 12:49
doctormon+1Oct 05 12:50
bryceone of the other concerns raised was how we direct reporters to file bugsOct 05 12:50
Moinibryce yes - or for 'ignoring any new reports from then'. I think it's a huge data loss if we close it, with nobody able to access it, not even devs....Oct 05 12:50
MoiniBut if it's to be closed, it needs to be clear when, so people can prepare.Oct 05 12:51
MoiniWhy bother if there's no deadline ;-) ?Oct 05 12:51
brycethere had been some thinking that it would be beneficial to limit bug filing in the main gitlab repo to keep the quality high, and direct support requests and random low quality reports elsewhere.  Does anyone feel we should pursue that angle, or just bulk direct to gitlab and leave it to triaging?Oct 05 12:52
MoiniIs the data lost as soon as it's closed?Oct 05 12:52
MoiniCan we ask Canonical for a db dump?Oct 05 12:52
bryceMoini, a db dump is a possibility, I think I mentioned that earlier.  I don't know how hard that'd be to get, as it may include user data, and the LP support team is short staffed, but in theory it's doable.Oct 05 12:53
tedgProbably just as easy to use the Python API to get in a format that's useful for us.Oct 05 12:53
Ede_123I think we agree it should *not* be closed? But we still need a clear-cut date as to when the old tracker stops and the new one starts (officially, obviously the will be some transition period)Oct 05 12:53
Ede_123Or did I miss something?Oct 05 12:54
brycethe actual technical toggle is on the Configure Bug Tracker page, to change where "Bugs are tracked"Oct 05 12:54
Ede_123I'd not flick thatOct 05 12:54
brycethis would be changing from "In Launchpad" to "In a registered bug tracker"Oct 05 12:54
brycewhen we want to "close" LP.Oct 05 12:55
brycethis won't _destroy_ any data, but I don't know if it'll be accessible after thatOct 05 12:55
crogersRewards could be swag of some sort for top bug-wranglers.Oct 05 12:55
bryce(this could be easily tested)Oct 05 12:55
Mccrogers: that was my suggestion earlier :pOct 05 12:55
crogersSorry, missed it. :)Oct 05 12:56
crogersMc, good idea. ;)Oct 05 12:56
Mcyeah it was before you arrivedOct 05 12:56
bryceMc, crogers I like the idea of rewarding folks for doing the work; I would just need someone (other than me) to coordinate that effort :-)Oct 05 12:56
crogersMc, again, sorry. :)Oct 05 12:56
Mcwait I'll send you the beginning of toays logOct 05 12:56
MctodaysOct 05 12:56
crogersI can do artwork for the swag.Oct 05 12:57
crogersIf we get funds, I can have them made through vistaprint and shipped wherever.Oct 05 12:57
bryceMoini, like Ede_123 says, I don't know if we can guess when that change should be done, it could be far, far off in the futureOct 05 12:58
Mccrogers: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/6facb781/Oct 05 12:59
MoiniIf it's not closed, then it would refer to the date when new reports there are ignored.Oct 05 12:59
brycehowever it's a very good suggestion to communicate a due dateOct 05 12:59
Ede_123I think Launchpad will just die out on itself... No need to do a "hard" closeOct 05 12:59
crogersMc: thanks. :) rocketchat would fix that problem, btw. :)Oct 05 12:59
Ede_123Just pin a date like Moini suggests that marks the time new reports should be directed to the new trackerOct 05 12:59
bryceperhaps it could be for something tangible, but other than closing LP?  Like, a policy change - "We'll no longer be triaging bugs posted to LP after <DATE>"?Oct 05 13:00
MoiniThis would also make it easier for bug triagers to not having to split themselves between two work places.Oct 05 13:00
Moinibryce: yes.Oct 05 13:00
bryceok, that works for meOct 05 13:00
Mccrogers: so would being on time 😇Oct 05 13:01
doctormonyesOct 05 13:02
crogersMc: Fine, I'll just bring it up again when I'm NOT unforgivably late., then shall I? ;)Oct 05 13:02
McDATE can be 1.0 releaseOct 05 13:02
Ede_123bryce: Regarding you erlier comment (having two trackers) and you suggestion from a while back to have a "friendly feedback" place (which would likely be one of the trackers). Should we try to pursue this road?Oct 05 13:02
bryceperhaps this will also stimulate new folks to pitch in with the triaging work, esp. if we make the checklist we discussed earlier handyOct 05 13:02
bryceMc, ah yeah that'd be a meaningful transition pointOct 05 13:03
Mc(June 1, 2019)Oct 05 13:03
Ede_123*If* we want to implement something like this, it should probably be done *before* starting a new trackerOct 05 13:03
Ede_123(which might be filled with whishlist items by then ;-) )Oct 05 13:04
bryceEde_123, well of course I do think so, but it'd need to be kept simple, we don't have a lot of spare manpower for anything fancyOct 05 13:04
Mcmy preferred idea for it would be a separate project in gitlab (gitlab/inkscape/report-bug) so bugs could be easily moved to a devtracker once "confirmed"Oct 05 13:04
Mc(this might be equivalent to a single tracker, and a tag)Oct 05 13:05
Ede_123I could imagine a "global" tracker for everything Inkscape, open to every body, in a separate project (like inkscape/report_an_issue)Oct 05 13:05
Ede_123ah, too slow ;-)Oct 05 13:05
Mc:)Oct 05 13:05
Ede_123Let's not use tags, though but one central "inbox" from which issues can e sorted into the subprojects (including inkscape main)Oct 05 13:07
Ede_123I'd keep subprojects open, too, though. We have enough experienced users whom I trust with properly filing bugs to the proper subproject on their ownOct 05 13:08
Ede_123The main userbase could be directed towards the "inbox" repo (e.g. via help link and website links)Oct 05 13:09
Mc+1Oct 05 13:09
bryceinbox + subprojects sounds interesting, better than tagsOct 05 13:15
brycewould need some thought put into what the subprojects should beOct 05 13:16
Ede_123Same as now (+ inkscape proper)Oct 05 13:16
Ede_123Every repo on GitLab has a tracker already (or most of them)Oct 05 13:16
bryceoh you mean the existing subprojects - devel, infra, translation, website, etc.Oct 05 13:17
McyesOct 05 13:17
Mcwe can also add 2geomOct 05 13:17
bryceok, I thought you meant subprojects within inkscape devel itself, like frontend, backend, import/export, etc.Oct 05 13:18
bryceyeahOct 05 13:18
Ede_123That would lead to far, those can in fact be be handled with tags.Oct 05 13:18
bryceI wish I'd put core devel into a subproject from the start.  But I think it can be movedOct 05 13:19
Ede_123You mean a group?Oct 05 13:19
bryceEde_123, yeah subgroupOct 05 13:20
Ede_123Is it that important? (i.e. what would we gain)Oct 05 13:21
Ede_123We can still create an "inkscape developers" group and assign it to the inkscape/inkscape project if that's what's bugging youOct 05 13:21
bryceI've not pushed to do it, because it isn't critical, but it would permit a bit better team membership managementOct 05 13:22
Ede_123yes, but projects do not need to belong to only one group (that's kinda twisted), but multiple groups can be assigned to one projectOct 05 13:22
Ede_123e.g. "inkscape developers" could also be assigned to "inkscape/lib2geom"Oct 05 13:23
bryceconsistency is the main goal.  I'd like it if each team was organized the same wayOct 05 13:23
Ede_123having "core inkscape" wil actually make that more complicatedOct 05 13:23
Ede_123once we realize we need to split "core"Oct 05 13:23
brycethat's useful that projects can belong to multiple groups.  So we could have a core devel team and a casual devel team, that both have access to the extensions project, but only the former has access for the core codebase?Oct 05 13:25
brycewe're way over time for the meeting, sorry I let this drag out so long.  Let's officially close.Oct 05 13:26
bryce== End of Meeting ==Oct 05 13:26
Ede_123exactly. You'd assign "core devel" to "inkscape/inkscape" and "core devel + casual devel" to "inkscape/extensions"Oct 05 13:26
bryceEde_123, cool, I think that'd do the main thing I want doneOct 05 13:27
Ede_123the only rpoblem right now is that "core devel" (the group)  = "inkscape" (the root project)Oct 05 13:27
bryceyeahOct 05 13:27
bryceso like, where would 2geom go?  part of core?  a separate group?Oct 05 13:27
brycecould be both I supposeOct 05 13:28
crogersThe most common single question at the board meeting is "did I miss the board meeting"Oct 05 13:28
brycecrogers, :-DOct 05 13:28
crogersthanks for the recap, McOct 05 13:28
crogersAlso, new vidya: https://youtu.be/3nf8kwIZEz4Oct 05 13:29
Moinicrogers, is the link the same or did it change?Oct 05 13:29
bryceEde_123, I suppose if we think about the tangible effects here - the access permissions - the question is would we want all 2geom committers to have commits on the inkscape codebase?  and vice versa?  If not, then separate subgroups would make sense.Oct 05 13:30
brycefor 2geom it's so closely associated with Inkscape I'm guessing there'd be no trouble with people having equivalent access to bothOct 05 13:30
Ede_123I'd keep them all separate projects as we can always create/assign new groups as neededOct 05 13:32
Ede_123For example if 2geom is used by another application tomorrow, we could create a group "2geom developers" containing a few of their developers and assign it to 2geomOct 05 13:33
Ede_123(we'd obviously not want them to be able to push to the inkscape main repoOct 05 13:33
bryceyeahOct 05 13:33
crogersMoini, thgat's a new videoOct 05 13:38
crogersNotice it's a different topic. :)Oct 05 13:39
crogersThere's one more, which was a presentation/discussion by Tav, which I'll edit, then seek his approval to post, then the last video is basically a commercial for the hackfest, to give folks the flavour of the event as a whole.Oct 05 13:41
crogersWith all the little clips I took.Oct 05 13:41
Mccrogers: next time, lavalier microphones for everyoneOct 05 13:42
crogersYes, I'll make a note for that.Oct 05 13:44
crogersAll wireless no doubt.Oct 05 13:44
Mc:DOct 05 13:45
crogersAll connected to.... ? :)Oct 05 13:45
crogersSome piece of audio equipment I can't fit into my luggage. :)Oct 05 13:45
crogersNot to mention the great thrill of trying to get everyone to wear one.Oct 05 13:46
Moinicrogers: ah, thanks!Oct 05 13:46
crogersWAIT STOP THE CONVERSATION! Mic check. ;)Oct 05 13:46
crogersMc, can you start over explaining that? Yea, get a new piece of paper. Your mic was dead. Let's replace the battery and try again. ;)Oct 05 13:47
McxDOct 05 13:47
crogersSounds like too much fun to me. ;)Oct 05 13:47
Mcmaybe ^^Oct 05 13:47
crogersMoini, no problem. :)Oct 05 13:48
Mcbtw I talked with rocket chat people about IRCOct 05 13:49
crogersMc, any joy?Oct 05 13:50
Mcthere are two ways to go, one is a bridge but they could not give me specifics, and one is a federation, which they actually implemented last month (still in beta)Oct 05 13:50
Mcfederation meaning that the chan would not be on freenode but that rocketchat would *also* behave like an irc server people can connect toOct 05 13:51
Ede_123"federation"?Oct 05 13:51
Ede_123too late again ^^Oct 05 13:51
Ede_123so probably not what we want...Oct 05 13:51
Mcadvantage : accounts on rocket are all irc accounts and vice versa (vs "one bot delivers everththing that is from the other platform")Oct 05 13:52
Ede_123or would we want to move the channel?Oct 05 13:52
McI like freenode, but I could also connect to a "new" server easilyOct 05 13:53
Mc(what I like in freenode is the fact that "on freenode" is quite a standard for open source projects)Oct 05 13:53
Mcso it's where people would expect usOct 05 13:53
crogersSounds good. I also don't mind shifting to another server.Oct 05 13:53
crogersBut yea, I guess we are more visible here.Oct 05 13:54
Mccrogers: you would be able to use the rocketchat interface and no visible IRCOct 05 13:54
crogersto IRC users.Oct 05 13:54
crogersI'd probably enjoy that.Oct 05 13:54
Ede_123Mc: So IRC posts actually appear as if they were written directly in Rocket.Chat?Oct 05 13:54
Mcyes, that's the ideaOct 05 13:55
Ede_123Not too bad actually...Oct 05 13:55
christoph_smoin MoiniOct 05 13:55
crogersI'd definitely see more information.Oct 05 13:55
Mc( https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat/pull/10113 )Oct 05 13:55
MoiniMoin christoph_s!Oct 05 13:55
Ede_123(I was actually planning to try the pidgin implementation soon, as I also think web-based services suck)Oct 05 13:56
McI'll try to do some tests on servers I own when I get the timeOct 05 13:56
*Mc has changed the topic to: Inkscape development discussion channel || Next board meeting: `date -d 'TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 10:00 Fri Nov 2'`Oct 05 13:57
Ede_123"Limitations all the usernames get -irc and -rkt appended to avoid nick conflict problems;" that's a bit wonky - so it''s actually not the *same* accountOct 05 13:58
Mcit's one account per distant account, on both sidesOct 05 13:59
Mcotherwise there would be name conflicts I guess ?Oct 05 13:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!