I am looking to learn drawing cartoon characters, however, most of the resources are on paper and don't transfer that well to software.
Even though there are tons of youtube videos about it, there are basics that would like to relearn on drawing programs like inkscape.
For example the basic techniques to draw heads, torso and such.

If anyone here knows or have some tips on how to go about drawing natively on inkscape, I would love to hear it.

Regards.

Welcome to the forum!

If you need to update your artistic skills, I can only say practice, practice, practice! If you have questions about using Inkscape, you''ll have to be much more specific

well is hard to narrow it down to something specific. but i am going over the tutorials of Manga University. but most of the lessons are for analog artists. so for example drawing heads and starting with an egg shape object.
this make sense when you are drawing with pencil and acuracy is important. But in inkscape is trivial since i can get a perfect circle or use guides for acuracy porpouses.
So maybe an experience illustrator can share some digitally native drawing lessons techniques.
is hard to practice without a technique to go over with.

Why not come up with your own technique? You say that many of the analog steps are kind of obsolete when working digitally. I'd like to disagree. Learning to draw on paper will certainly help you in getting started digitally. Even if you're only doing quick scribbles on paper, these can still make a good foundation for a fully digital piece later on. And to get back to your "perfect ellipse" example... You might still start with an ellipse, rectangle or whatever other shape and then go on altering the basic shape, adding details and so on.

Sorry if I can't be more specific here... I just think it's important that artists find their own way/style and don't look too much at and copy how others work. Learn at least some of the basics on paper (there are billions of books on anatomy, perspective, etc) and then experiment. Trust me, learning by doing can be fun :)

I'm not a professional Inkscape user, or really not an artist either. But judging by the messages I've read, I've seen a couple of general approaches.

One is using a graphics tablet. With that kind of hardware, the artist can just draw on the tablet, and automatically the lines are drawn in Inkscape. This seems to work really well for sketch artists and the like. Another approach is to draw the sketch on paper, and scan onto the hard drive. Then that is used kind of as a guide for drawing in Inkscape. In both of these scenarios, the Calligraphy tool is often used.

The style I've developed for myself is using the Pen tool in straight line mode. But I can't sketch to save my life! Lately I've been working on some realistic type drawings, where I use a photo for reference, then I simply trace over the photo, to make the shapes right.

To be honest, I think it's really a matter of personal preference. As you practice with Inkscape, you'll soon develop your own way of using the tools. I'd suggest following a few tutorials, just to "get your feet wet" as they say. You really will quickly develop your own routine

Well thats why I wanted to join this forum, because talking to other artists can help me out on these topics on techniques, and decisions.

The example of the elipse, goes on the comparison of youtube videos of doing regular drawing (with pen and tablet) where there are many strokes, as opposed to fully vector drawing where there is only a simple stroke and the rest of the work comes in arranging the handles of the node. This can work as an advantage since the drawing is non-destructive. But already this makes the rules change and look at drawing completely different.

One big example is that using a pen/wacom tablet is completely useless (which is great cuz I dont have one :p).

Here is a drawing in gimp: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at9yCFg0bxQ
Here one on inkscape: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkLBZACjwek

I was hoping to pick up the brains of some more proficient inkscape illustrators to point to resources more relevant to the 'vectorial drawing'. Specially the info I wont find in the manuals that just talk about the characteristics of the feature, more than how to use it wisely on your drawings.

One big thing I am looking for is to understand how to use levels of opacity to create depth. Here is an example done in photoshop:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zChaESZPlA

brynn wrote:The style I've developed for myself is using the Pen tool in straight line mode. But I can't sketch to save my life! Lately I've been working on some realistic type drawings, where I use a photo for reference, then I simply trace over the photo, to make the shapes right.

I have been able to do this traces rather well, the challenge comes when is about drawing from 0 using the pen tool. I am still learning all the options that the pen tool gives and manging the different type of vectors. But that is just the technical part as opposed as the process part of the drawing, like shading through different opacities to put together the texture.

Also geting key nodes on the drawing of bodies, faces, eyes and such.

JZA wrote:I have been able to do this traces rather well, the challenge comes when is about drawing from 0 using the pen tool. I am still learning all the options that the pen tool gives and manging the different type of vectors. But that is just the technical part as opposed as the process part of the drawing, like shading through different opacities to put together the texture.

You could still work pretty much the same way you do when tracing a photograph or such. Start with the basic shape, think about where you want (or need) to have shaded or highlighted areas, define these roughly and then go on refining by adding "layers" of solid- or gradient-filled areas. There's not much to say, really. If tracing images works fine and you want to move on to drawing more freely, you gotta learn the basics. No matter if on paper or digitally...

Learn anatomy, learn perspective, some color theory won't hurt either. You need some understanding of how light and shadow work because this will tell you where to darken or lighten parts of the underlying base shape of the object/face/character/whatever, where to change colors via throwing in differently colored semi-transparent areas and so on. Once you know that it still requires experimenting (like brynn and I were already saying before). Don't think that professionals get everything to look straight on point in the very first go. They, too, have to delete and/or adjust things later on to get the desired look. You can't get around building up some experience on your own.

The lower an object's opacity, the more the objects underneath it will shine through, obviously. The overlapping objects' colors will form up new colors if used appropriately. Also, if you're using several layers you could play with the (rather few) blend modes. I, for instance, like to have all shadow objects on a separate layer and use Multiply blending for this layer. This way the colors will add/darken everything underneath in a much more "naturally looking" way than they would with normal blending and some transparency. Again, it still requires time and testing. Use different colors, use gradients from one color to another, with or without different alpha values for the separate gradient stops, add patterns or textures to add details or "structure" etc. The vid you posted above, the one where they were tracing a face, gave a (rather quick) impression on how this can be done. Lots of overlapping shapes that blend into one another, creating darkened areas (like the eye sockets), highlights or color variation.

Try things.. experiment! You won't learn from only watching videos. Vids can add to your experience but they won't do the main work. Think about what exactly you're trying to do and then try different things to get the desired result. Only very few artists are born geniuses. Most have to practice (some more than others) to get somewhere. But once you reach your personal goal it's far more more rewarding knowing that you've made it on your own.

Drawing on paper is creating the outline and filling it in with colour. Drawing in Inkscape is more like painting: think about layers of patches. For example, the nose is a separate patch that sits on top of the face. Hair has several patches. One for the back hair, which goes behind the head; one for the top; on for the bangs; one for the sideburns (if any); etc. Eyes need the sclera (the white part), then the iris-pupil, then both eyelids on top, and finally, the eyelashes. Once you get use to thinking about layers and patches, it gets easier but it's different from drawing on paper.

That Inkscape video that you showed, you could slow that WAY down and get some idea about that artist's process. But it really IS a very personal thing. I noticed that in all of the videos you showed, the artists were using a photo reference. Is that how you expect to be using Inkscape? Do you want to do photorealism, or just use photos as a starting place for cartoon style images?

As for transparency, I've never seen any kind of tutorial on that. As far as I know, it truly is a matter of trial and error.

brynn wrote:That Inkscape video that you showed, you could slow that WAY down and get some idea about that artist's process. But it really IS a very personal thing. I noticed that in all of the videos you showed, the artists were using a photo reference. Is that how you expect to be using Inkscape? Do you want to do photorealism, or just use photos as a starting place for cartoon style images?

As for transparency, I've never seen any kind of tutorial on that. As far as I know, it truly is a matter of trial and error.

The videos I showed were to show the photorealism effect using a lot of layers with different alfa values. However this video draw the cartoon from scratch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSFHmA2_Png

One of the biggest challenge in this video is to get to recognize the shading on the wrinkles of the clothes (4:47).

The porpouse of the earlier videos was to show that at least on inkscape most of the drawing don't require a pen/tablet since consist on arranging curves, rather than generating the right stroke.

He realizes the wrinkles on the clothes because he (or she?) is a great artist. That's what they see in their head! I worked with a woman once, who could pick up a pair of scissors and a posterboard, and without stopping, could cut out a cartoon animal. At the end, there were 2 pieces -- the animal and the negative of the animal. And these were easily recognized animals just by their outline, and without any extra embellishment. Later she would draw on faces and clothes. But it was absolutely amazing, how she could see it in her head and snip, snip, snip -- I'm talking about this happened in 30 seconds -- no hesitation, no thinking about it. It was as if she'd practiced for years. I asked her how many times she must have done that to be so good at it, and she said she had never done it before! She was just incredibly talented at seeing a finished product on a blank page!

Also, you have to realize that ALL of the videos you showed are sped up. No one really works at the speed that is implied by the videos. I know some people do work very fast, but not nearly as fast as in those videos! You can't expect to be quick, right away. As I said initially, you have to practice

JZA wrote:One of the biggest challenge in this video is to get to recognize the shading on the wrinkles of the clothes (4:47).

The porpouse of the earlier videos was to show that at least on inkscape most of the drawing don't require a pen/tablet since consist on arranging curves, rather than generating the right stroke.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself but... this is exactly why I said you should focus on learning some basics before you dive into doing more (complex) artworks. In this specific case, you'd first need to understand how folds/wrinkles work to get the "geometry" right. Once this is done (the outlines, if you wanna use some) you'd need a bit of understanding how the whole light/shadow thing works. Think about where the light source for your current image shall be positioned. This determines where shadows fall and where light areas are. The color of the light would also affect the color of the object it shines upon, and so on.

"How does shading work" might sound like a simple question, but in fact it's a complex thing with many factors to keep in mind (depending on how accurate you want to do it, of course). It's not something you could learn from just watching a few videos or from an explanation somebody gives you. It takes time and you need to build up experience in order to get this stuff done right or in an appealing way. Tutorials can add to that experience, but without further practice and refining from your side they're worth nothing.

And yes, you don't necessarily need a tablet to work with vectors. It would certainly speed things up but it's not mandatory. I'm doing all my own stuff via mouse...

Dillerkind wrote:"How does shading work" might sound like a simple question, but in fact it's a complex thing with many factors to keep in mind....

Yes, in fact, I've learned a lot of what I know about light and shadow from the science and physics courses in my school years, including college. People who are skilled artists, of course, have no need to learn the physical rules of light and shadow, because they can "see" what they need to depict it. For me (not an artist) I have to constantely remind myself that light can't bend!

And by the way, depicting fabric is one of the most difficult things to learn, in art (I remember that from 7th grade art class). I've avoided trying to draw it using Inkscape, because of so many spectacular failures on paper, lol! If I had a photo reference, I might attempt it. But so far, I steer clear of fabric

Some people are born artists, and need very little practice to be really good. But even the best artists need practice. If they don't practice, they can't evolve and improve and find their own style. Then there are others who need a lot of practice before are any good at it. Me? I'm not sure if I'll ever be an artist. But I'm having a blast with Inkscape, practicing!

brynn wrote:People who are skilled artists, of course, have no need to learn the physical rules of light and shadow, because they can "see" what they need to depict it.

Hehe.. I think even as a skilled artist you'd still have to know certain things, otherwise you wouldn't know how to draw them. You'd always have to use, rely on and reproduce references. But if you know how things work "internally", you can use this knowledge later on without having to look every tiny bit up on a real-life reference or an image and instead draw straight from your imagination.

brynn wrote:And by the way, depicting fabric is one of the most difficult things to learn, in art (I remember that from 7th grade art class). I've avoided trying to draw it using Inkscape, because of so many spectacular failures on paper, lol! If I had a photo reference, I might attempt it. But so far, I steer clear of fabric :D

Nooo! Folds and wrinkles are so much fun to draw! And it's really not that hard to get started with this matter. I've got an older book by Burne Hogarth that deals with different kinds of folds ("Dynamic wrinkles and drapery".. I think... I've got the German version so I can't say for sure). In fact, of all the books on drawing/painting I own this is the one I did more than just look through the pretty images and even read more than just the first two pages :D

brynn wrote:Some people are born artists, and need very little practice to be really good. But even the best artists need practice. If they don't practice, they can't evolve and improve and find their own style. Then there are others who need a lot of practice before are any good at it. Me? I'm not sure if I'll ever be an artist. But I'm having a blast with Inkscape, practicing!

What's art anyway? It's something that depends a lot on personal opinions, likes and dislikes. What some people consider art in its purest form, others might find plain crap. Just find your own way of expressing yourself with whatever medium you think fits your ideas the best and your own pace of learning and developing your skills. That's the best you can do... And if you say you're having a blast practicing, that's great because it will always keep you moving and trying new things.

Alright, I apologize for my lengthy posts and for getting a bit off-topic.

Here is an example of a drawing I mad (by tracing):


Is taken out of a manga, and as you can see the right arm is completely messed up on the logistic of the arm.

This is because on the original image, I was no longer tracing since there was a dialog bubble and I had to 'improvise' the folds of the sweater on the arm. Acquiring a complete FAIL!

Obviously having baggy clothes gives you more flexibility but the drawback is that it generates more shadows. That's why I was looking for some methodology to create folds dynamics.

PD: BTW the original svg image is at OpenClipArt: http://openclipart.org/detail/169054/ma ... boy-by-jza

JZA wrote:Here is an example of a drawing I mad (by tracing):


Is taken out of a manga, and as you can see the right arm is completely messed up on the logistic of the arm.

This is because on the original image, I was no longer tracing since there was a dialog bubble and I had to 'improvise' the folds of the sweater on the arm. Acquiring a complete FAIL!

Obviously having baggy clothes gives you more flexibility but the drawback is that it generates more shadows. That's why I was looking for some methodology to create folds dynamics.

PD: BTW the original svg image is at OpenClipArt: http://openclipart.org/detail/169054/ma ... boy-by-jza

I suppose the real idea here isn't about Inscape or Pencil, Paper and Inking pens... it seems to be more about art itself. Some would say the true artist has the ability to observe then to put on paper (or on a computer) his/her skill. That's what helps an artist to produce creases in a shirt or pants. It's an ability to observe how the clothing bends to the person: cotton like this, jeans like that, silk like that.

The next part of the process is about understanding your tools. Whether it's a brush or mouse really doesn't make much of a difference. Having a great art tool and no art talent still results in bad illustrations. The software can help us to cheat... but that's not what we're after here.

A friend of the family is a very talented pen/paper artist. It took him very little time to translate his skill to a PC using a Wacom tablet or even illustrating on an iPod Touch.

I would encourage you to learn the old-fashioned way: start with observing. Don't be too hard on the method of working with pens and paper. While it may not be "hi tech", it might advance your artistic skills more than you'd imagine. Just keep a positive view of the older method. =D

Dillerkind wrote:And yes, you don't necessarily need a tablet to work with vectors. It would certainly speed things up but it's not mandatory. I'm doing all my own stuff via mouse...

I like tablets for 2 reasons:
1. I can use a tablet all day and I don't get pains in my fingers and wrist (I do from extended mouseketeering).
2. Some things are almost impossible with a mouse (or take forever). And time is money! For example, if I'm drawing a ball of of string I can sketch in the twist for each thread very quickly using a pen/tablet (using the pencil or calligraphy tool). My stuff is reproduced quite small (illustration for children's non-fiction), so the twist is going to appear very very small when in print, so I don't want to spend time adjusting bezier curves for every line. I just want to draw it! I think I have to work quickly to earn a living, but that's nothing compared to friends who went to work in comix. That's serious pressure!

I was always told that you spend more time looking than painting, but I think that to develop the ability to look and see takes time and application. Shading gets easier, but I still like to use visual references whenever possible (it is quicker and easier to get it looking just right). The best way to practice drawing is to do lots of drawing. Pencils are great for this. They require no power and are very portable. Pencils are pressure sensitive with an infinite number of pressure levels. I would guess that every single manga artist learned how to draw using a pencil or something very similar.

The skills are directly transferrable too. You won't have to "unlearn" pencil-based drawing skills to use a computer because you are really developing your eye - the medium is pretty unimportant.

It's worth trying to find out what professional manga/comic artists are actually doing these days (my information about the business structure is *very* dated). I would guess that anyone who is as old as me and trained as a penciller (I did not) will still be using a pencil and their work will be scanned and manually traced (which is VERY quick). IIRC inkers, colour artists, and lettering artists converted to using computers first (in the 1990s).


EDIT: Darn it, Bob types quicker than me. I agree with Bob.

BobSongs wrote:I would encourage you to learn the old-fashioned way: start with observing. Don't be too hard on the method of working with pens and paper. While it may not be "hi tech", it might advance your artistic skills more than you'd imagine. Just keep a positive view of the older method. =D

Well here is an example of what I am looking for (although is on analog form and not easily translated to digital). But here the artist mentions things that I consider part of a methodology and some might say philosophy of the technique done on shading. The video is rather long so here are the bookmarks (vidmarks?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDiDy5zb5

Method 1: (2:55) where would this method will be more fitted.
Method 2: (3:44) nature of the 2nd technique
Method 3: (6:52) comparisons and conclusions.

On inkscape these are a bit useless since it inkscape doesnt rely much on the use of brushes, as opposed of Gimp or MyPaint for example.

On the flipside I found this double stroke technique for creating sharper lines on this video. I think is great when you want the vectors to end in this needle sharp pointy edges, like for use on hair and such. Is a bit more work but also replaces the calligraphy effect of intensity of the stroke, that you often see when drawing edges in cartoons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heIUBbp7gKk

fizzcat wrote:The skills are directly transferable too. You won't have to "unlearn" pencil-based drawing skills to use a computer because you are really developing your eye - the medium is pretty unimportant.

I kinda disagree here, since, there are two ways to approach this:
- Replicate what you did on the new medium (pen/tablet, pressure points)
- Generate new techniques given the tools that you didn't had before (layers, nodes, handles) -- non-destructive drawing.

The level of quickness depends on the medium, keystrokes are great once you have them engraved in your brain. You look like a gamer with one hand on the keyboard and another on the mouse, but is definitely different muscles than the old pencil strokes whenever is digital or analog.

Dillerkind wrote:And yes, you don't necessarily need a tablet to work with vectors. It would certainly speed things up but it's not mandatory. I'm doing all my own stuff via mouse...

Agreed. It's not "mandatory". But when you finally get hold of a tablet and master that pen technique, it soon feels like using a mouse in GIMP or PhotoShop (etc.) was like painting with a brick. =)

fizzcat wrote:<snip>I was always told that you spend more time looking than painting, but I think that to develop the ability to look and see takes time and application....

EDIT: Darn it, Bob types quicker than me. I agree with Bob.</snip>

rofl

I'm just happy to have an active forum.

BobSongs & fizzcat
Hehe, both of you are right, of course. Maybe I should add that for the most part I'm still doing and considering this art-thing as "art", for my own pleasure, rather than big business. I've got very little experience with a graphics tablet, i.e. only a few quick sketches done with a friend's tab a couple of years ago. Back then it felt very awkward to draw on the tablet while looking somewhere else on the screen. All in all I'm still a traditional artist for the most part, (colored) pencils being my main medium. I've just gotten more into the digital stuff a comparatively short time ago. And there are only two fields that I'm dabbling with, which would be vectors and small-scale pixels. I'm not really drawing/painting via mouse in GIMP/Photoshop.. but I like the "painting with a brick" comparison ;)
But as you guys said (and I admitted myself) using a tablet does greatly speed things up, making the overall process a lot more economical. And maybe at some point I won't get around buying one. But for now.. well.. *pets his mouse* :D I've always been going "my way" when it came to drawing and stuff. I admit that this (my) way may not be very efficient. But it works for me and I'm getting my stuff to look the way I want it to. Different people, different methods...

Oh, and about the "learning to draw" part you wrote above, that's exactly my opinion.. only that I needed a lot more words to express more or less the same :D

Dillerkind wrote:...., rather than big business. ....

I wish

Just want to say that I am really enjoying this exchange.

Here's a technique I use when (quick)drawing cartoon characters (black and white comics):

http://loadusfx.net/inkscape/inkscape-c ... hicpen.svg

^.^