| johan_e, ping as requested | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:04:06 PM | ||
| pong | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:04:21 PM | ||
| karenesq, welcome to the inkscape channel! | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:04:34 PM | ||
| thanks! happy to be here to chat | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:05:16 PM | ||
| karenesq, I know we want to discuss the hackfest and associated fundraising, but I don't have an agenda beyond that. I'm trusting you have some specifics you'd like to discuss? | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:05:42 PM | ||
| bryce, I figured we'd want to go through the points that Bradley set out in his email | ||
| but the one point I wanted to raise first was about the new FSA with conservancy? 03:05:56 PM | ||
| I think that's kind of languished a few times... 03:06:03 PM | ||
| Mc- | ||
| Mc- 03:07:16 PM | ||
| ("FSA" ?) | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:07:31 PM | ||
| sorry Mc- fiscal sponsorship agreement | ||
| all of conservancy's member projects were asked to sign an updated FSA 03:07:47 PM | ||
| I don't think it was too controversial but I think it hasn't gotten the attention to get it done 03:08:09 PM | ||
| bryce may have more information 03:08:14 PM | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:09:01 PM | ||
| What are the changes we want? I can think of two... | ||
| 1. 10% to SFC 03:09:07 PM | ||
| 2. Handling inactive board members. 03:09:26 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:09:27 PM | ||
| I think the only potentially controversial part about that is that Conservancy would get 10% of revenues, but while it sounds like a lot it doesn't actually keep us afloat to give us the ability to support the member projects | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:09:30 PM | ||
| Tav: 10% from what? | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 03:09:47 PM | ||
| what we take in | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:09:54 PM | ||
| From contributions. We agreed to this already in principle. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:10:02 PM | ||
| we do a ton of general fundraising to support our staff so that we can have a lawyer on staff, etc | ||
| Mc- | ||
| Mc- 03:10:33 PM | ||
| [ "The FIXME-SIGNATORIES agree to donate ten percent (10%) of the Project’s gross revenue (including, but not necessarily limited to, all income and donations) to Conservancy for its general operations. " if what i found by googling is the right document ] | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:10:42 PM | ||
| karenesq: The big problem with 10%, is that it's 10% on top of the fundraising platform like kickstarter or patreon etc. It'd be really good if the conservency was a fundraising platform itself. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:11:17 PM | ||
| I'd love for that to be the case doctormon and we definitely would be happy for someone to volunteer to implement that for us! | ||
| doctormon anyway I didn't mean to derail the discussion by mentioning this, I thought it was already agreed upon, I just wanted to get the housekeeping out of the way 03:11:50 PM | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:12:53 PM | ||
| karenesq: If you're being paid money, volunteering the tools too is a bit cheeky. Payment should be in exchange for services and with regards to fund raising at least, the conservancy isn't offering many services. We have to outsource those. | ||
| karenesq: OK, sorry thought it was on the agenda, ignore me! 03:13:05 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:13:35 PM | ||
| doctormon, well, the amount of money we take in from our projects in total barely supports the bookkeeping :) | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 03:13:37 PM | ||
| it's just something we need to keep in mind when setting a goal for something like a kickstarter | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:14:10 PM | ||
| I'll table my response karenesq, what's next on the agenda? | ||
| tedg has joined the room 03:14:28 PM | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:14:41 PM | ||
| We'll have three board members at GSoC. That might be a good time to finish of the FSA. | ||
| ... that GSoC Mentors meeting... 03:14:52 PM | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:14:59 PM | ||
| what is a common percentage for funding platforms? So, as ScislaC mentions, we know by how much to multiply the budget. And then we can see if that is a reachable goal. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:15:05 PM | ||
| ok cool Tavmjong. I'll be there for part of that, and Bradley will be there too | ||
| ok, so I think there were two main things to discuss - fundraising and goals to accomplish to be fundraised for 03:16:35 PM | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:16:51 PM | ||
| Does someone have a link to Bradley's email? Or could they forward it to me? | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:17:19 PM | ||
| karenesq: can we discuss them in opposite order? | ||
| (so goals first) 03:17:27 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:17:31 PM | ||
| Tavmjong: we can just got through the points here, so we're all on the same page | ||
| yeah johan_e, I was going to suggest that actually 03:17:39 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:18:55 PM | ||
| so, for the hackfest, the goals we discussed was to have a ~3 day event scheduled to lead or follow the Libre Graphics Meeting in April | ||
| location is not set in stone, but LGM is in Toronto iirc, and we were thinking Boston, so doctormon could help with legwork to do arrangements 03:19:35 PM | ||
| karenesq, where are you located? 03:19:43 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:19:54 PM | ||
| bryce: I'm in Brooklyn, NY | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:20:16 PM | ||
| ok, thought you might be east coast :-) | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:20:18 PM | ||
| :) | ||
| I always help set up the GNOME Boston Summit 03:20:43 PM | ||
| there are a lot of universities that are potential hosts 03:21:09 PM | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:21:18 PM | ||
| Indeed there are. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:21:19 PM | ||
| and I bet the FSF people would help if we asked | ||
| Annabel has joined the room 03:21:32 PM | ||
| Annabel has disconnected (Changing host) 03:21:32 PM | ||
| Annabel has joined the room 03:21:32 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:21:38 PM | ||
| so, for the event itself we'll be setting some development objectives, but we haven't pinpointed those. We're thinking stuff which is easily parallelizable, so we might have someone give a tutorial or orientation talk, and then people can hack on the refactoring. | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:21:59 PM | ||
| we've made a wiki page to collect our planning for the hackfest: http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2015 | ||
| Annabel has disconnected (Client Quit) 03:22:02 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:22:14 PM | ||
| karenesq, Ted suggested MIT. We've done an Inkscape event at MIT there once before, so we may have some contacts. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:22:16 PM | ||
| for GNOME we always get Walter Bender (of Sugar Labs, another conservancy project) to reserve the rooms at MIT | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:22:19 PM | ||
| thanks johan_e | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:23:00 PM | ||
| sounds really good | ||
| *goes to check out the link* 03:23:05 PM | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:23:20 PM | ||
| I have never attended a hackfest. I also imagine they vary wildly, but still, perhaps someone could help me with 'scale'. how large are these things, what kind of people attend? | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:23:34 PM | ||
| in terms of budget items, I expect we'll need money for refreshments (catered lunches??) | ||
| johan_e - jon_y - 03:23:56 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:24:14 PM | ||
| if the venue doesn't include a projector set up, we may have costs associated with that | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:24:48 PM | ||
| it really depends on the event johan_e, but you'd probably want to turn the participants section into a sign up of interest (with yes or maybe) and then start to get an idea | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:24:53 PM | ||
| most of the budget will be for travel, accommodation (and food?) reimbursement for attendees | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:25:02 PM | ||
| johan_e, Typically 5-10, contributors of all types, but usually people with a "job to do" not just passers-by. | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:25:14 PM | ||
| johan_e: The LibreOffice hackfest was about 12 people, the Gnome hackfest is lots more. I've attended them at MIT, Harvard, FSF, Akami and the mono office. | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:25:28 PM | ||
| How expensive is Boston (having just been to London, ouch!)? | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:25:31 PM | ||
| yeah I'd say 8 people would be minimum | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:25:43 PM | ||
| he GNOME boston summit is usually like 30-50 people | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:25:55 PM | ||
| Tavmjong: They guy that stays in my spare room gets free breakfasts ;-) | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:25:58 PM | ||
| because it's our first time, I guess we expect a small number then | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:26:09 PM | ||
| Boston is pretty pricey but more reasonable than NY or SF | ||
| johan_e: how many is the core team that you know will go? 03:26:26 PM | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:26:40 PM | ||
| I think that could be the argument for Toronto, I think Toronto is generally cheaper. But not having "boots on the ground" is a big downside. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:26:49 PM | ||
| inkscape is pretty popular though so it might be a good time to do outreach | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:27:06 PM | ||
| we've not done a head count, but total number of active developers is less than 50, maybe less than 30 | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:27:23 PM | ||
| tedg, that's a good idea, you can always try to coordinate with the LGM organizers and see if they can just fold you into their organizing | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:27:45 PM | ||
| I'm guessing we'd be lucky to get 50% of active devs to attend, so figure a maximum of 15-20 | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:27:52 PM | ||
| sometimes it's easy for them to just arrange for another room then | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 03:28:14 PM | ||
| how many Inkscape developers attended LGM this year? | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:28:21 PM | ||
| I would think that we should aim for 10 developers for our first effort. | ||
| We had about eight at LGM... but that includes a couple translators. 03:28:46 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:29:39 PM | ||
| is there complete overlap in the people going to LGM and those going to the hackfest? | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:29:52 PM | ||
| hmm, we could probably draw in more people if we emphasize doing work on the documentation side of the project; certainly we need it, and f2f can hugely benefit documenters | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:30:30 PM | ||
| yeah definitely bryce | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:30:40 PM | ||
| karenesq, I think everyone going to the hackfest would be interested in going to LGM. | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:30:41 PM | ||
| karenesq: i think we should aim for complete overlap. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:30:54 PM | ||
| one thing that has worked for other projects I've helped in the past is to have a training session in the morning of the first day for newcomers | ||
| and advertise it heavily at the universities 03:31:01 PM | ||
| and have folks ready to do some hands on outreach 03:31:26 PM | ||
| then you can fold the productive people into the hackfest 03:31:36 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:31:52 PM | ||
| 'outreach' here meaning recruiting developers from userbase? | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:32:29 PM | ||
| either that bryce or outreach for documentation people | ||
| for documentation this works particularly well 03:32:48 PM | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:33:09 PM | ||
| If we do a torronto hackfest, then it'd be good to have it slightly outside of LGM time too. | ||
| Maybe at the weekend 03:33:14 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:33:27 PM | ||
| if you want complete overlap it really might make sense to have it in Toronto either before or after | ||
| it will save some money on having to travel twice 03:33:38 PM | ||
| and also there may be fewer visa issues if you avoid the US 03:33:48 PM | ||
| is there a way you can call for help from people based in Toronto? Is there a user group that might have some people who want to help? 03:34:35 PM | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:34:56 PM | ||
| From Europe the difference in airfare is minimal but it might be more convenient to co-locate. | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:35:17 PM | ||
| as you mentioned, we could ask the LGM people for help about organization | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:35:46 PM | ||
| sounds like an action item to investigate that | ||
| who'd like to own it? :-) 03:35:55 PM | ||
| Mc- | ||
| Mc- 03:36:44 PM | ||
| From Europe, not sure it's easy to pass the Canada-US border | ||
| US visas can be a pain at times 03:36:59 PM | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:37:11 PM | ||
| LGM is in April 2015. So we're talking about a longer delay than anticipated until the event too. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:37:40 PM | ||
| oh I see doctormon! Is there another event many of you are likely to be at before then? Like FOSDEM maybe? | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:38:12 PM | ||
| doctormon, right. But given how slow our project typically moves on things, I don't think its an inappropriately large amount of time | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 03:38:25 PM | ||
| agreed bryce | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:38:33 PM | ||
| I'm coming in without too much background so you have to fill me in | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:38:34 PM | ||
| Yeah, I'd agree, especially first time. We might become a well oiled machine at some point, but we're not today. | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:38:53 PM | ||
| for me personally, april would be fine. earlier has high chance of conflict with other things | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:39:27 PM | ||
| bryce: I can see the hope of future speed in your ascii art ;-) | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:39:29 PM | ||
| months out seems OK yeah | 00:00 | |
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:39:30 PM | ||
| I think having it associated with LGM will likely result in better attendance and better results from *both* events | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:39:45 PM | ||
| bryce, indeed | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:39:51 PM | ||
| doctormon, heh, which art is that? | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:39:55 PM | ||
| heh well it's good to have a long lead time | ||
| it's surprising how much it helps, actually 03:40:10 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:41:18 PM | ||
| ok, I guess we'll need to leave location up in the air for the time being. | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:41:19 PM | ||
| I do think someone needs to be the "chairperson" for the event. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:41:27 PM | ||
| so I could help get in touch with the LGM organizers, but it probably is better for someone in the core team to do it | ||
| you're much more likely to bond and find ways to help both events :) 03:41:40 PM | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:41:40 PM | ||
| Has anybody attended FOSDEM? Would it be interesting for us? | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:42:31 PM | ||
| Tavmjong, I've not attended but it does sound interesting. | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:43:03 PM | ||
| OK I've emailed Ginger Coons about hooking up LGM 2015 to this hackfest. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:43:17 PM | ||
| awesome doctormon | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:43:22 PM | ||
| It might be a place to have a mini-hackfest as a warm-up excercise. | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 03:43:24 PM | ||
| thanks doctormon | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:43:46 PM | ||
| so I guess we wait and see on that | ||
| but you should try to line up sponsors now 03:43:54 PM | ||
| a lot of companies do their budgeting in November 03:44:03 PM | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:44:07 PM | ||
| Where is FOSDEM this year? (Software Freedom Day is this Saturday, Boston event happening) | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:44:19 PM | ||
| FOSDEM is always in Brussels doctormon | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:44:19 PM | ||
| https://fosdem.org/2015/schedule/ | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:45:33 PM | ||
| (how come these things are always in the middle of the week? no-one works here?! :( ;)) | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:45:42 PM | ||
| which companies might likely sponsor? | ||
| johan_e: FOSDEM is always Saturday and Sunday :) 03:45:55 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:46:10 PM | ||
| karenesq, depending on how it's defined and marketed I might get my employer to contribute some | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:46:11 PM | ||
| argh sorry, one month off | ||
| thanks :) 03:46:16 PM | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 03:46:20 PM | ||
| karenesq: is this the type of thing projects would typically seek out sponsorship for from companies? (Being a chair with SCaLE, I get doing it as conference organizers) | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:46:21 PM | ||
| you know, you can sometimes tell how commuinity based a conference is by when it is scheduled | ||
| corporate-y ones are always midweek 03:46:27 PM | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:46:45 PM | ||
| I've emailed mo from RedHat about sponsorship from them. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:46:49 PM | ||
| yes ScislaC, and it's something we can help with | ||
| doctormon: with Ruth? 03:47:01 PM | ||
| we should coordinate this - where you guys have good contacts you should ask 03:47:25 PM | ||
| and I can ask where I have good contacts 03:47:38 PM | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:48:06 PM | ||
| karenesq: I've enquired via Marian Duffy. She's always ready to help promote inkscape. But anyone else at RH would be helpful too. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:48:10 PM | ||
| we probably should put together a collaborative document where we can post ideas for companies to hit up | ||
| and who will do it 03:48:12 PM | ||
| Mc- | ||
| Mc- 03:48:30 PM | ||
| is ti possible to have public sponsorship from the venue ? (city, mit, etc) | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:48:31 PM | ||
| cool doctormon, as I undertand it Ruth has the event sponsorship budget | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:48:36 PM | ||
| Do we have any good contacts? I think people assume that Inkscape is a much larger, better funded, etc. project that it really is. | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:48:37 PM | ||
| bryce: Want to ask Canonical? I know you're not there any more, but maybe a quick email to the right boss? | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:48:41 PM | ||
| Intel is another option, particularly if we include Cairo as part of it | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:48:42 PM | ||
| mo is so awesome :) | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:48:51 PM | ||
| why would a company sponsor us? (honest question. if we know a bit better, we can accomodate their wishes) | ||
| Mc- | ||
| Mc- 03:49:15 PM | ||
| johan_e: good publicity, tax advantages | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:49:21 PM | ||
| johan_e, you have to think about who uses inkscape and wants it to be better | ||
| sometimes it's also good PR 03:49:29 PM | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 03:49:31 PM | ||
| maybe tedg could ask Canonical? | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:49:32 PM | ||
| doctormon, I can ask around, not sure who to ask today, but I can try to figure that out. | ||
| I think that PR is probably the primary benefit. 03:49:50 PM | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:49:53 PM | ||
| johan_e: A company may wish to be seen in good standing, especially if it gets bug fixes etc. | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:49:55 PM | ||
| doctormon, yeah I could ask Rick when we have things a bit more nailed down. Canonical has typically been pretty miserly but can't hurt to ask. At the least we can invite them to send a dev or two. | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:50:11 PM | ||
| bryce: lol | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:50:12 PM | ||
| cool doctormon, tedg, I can also ask Rick | ||
| heh 03:50:16 PM | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:50:24 PM | ||
| OK, so I get: PR among coders? (or PR among users?) | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:50:52 PM | ||
| johan_e: Yes, both. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:51:12 PM | ||
| johan_e, users because users are often customers, and coders if they're trying to recruit | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:51:46 PM | ||
| OK, so can we offer them a logo on our website in a newsitem for a couple of weeks? | ||
| Inkscape hackfest sponsored by... 03:51:59 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:52:02 PM | ||
| my current employer (Samsung) actually has budgeted for sponsoring hackfests specifically | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:52:17 PM | ||
| I think people really do thin that inkscape is better funded | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:52:17 PM | ||
| (random brainstorming here. tell me if not desired now) | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:52:24 PM | ||
| great bryce! | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:52:29 PM | ||
| Reality is that companies that make money by shipping Inkscape realize that it being better helps them :-) | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:52:29 PM | ||
| bryce: ok, that is interesting to know | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 03:52:47 PM | ||
| karenesq: they do, I think it ends up hurting us to some extent | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:52:49 PM | ||
| yeah johan_e we'd put the logo on the event wiki and we could also put it in a write up of the event | ||
| right tedg! 03:52:59 PM | ||
| anyone who ships inkscape might want to sponsor 03:53:19 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:53:22 PM | ||
| unfortunately, inkscape is not on the list of projects they're targeting. But Cairo is, so like I said if we define it to include Cairo I can probably tap into that. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:53:36 PM | ||
| also, people who use inkscape in their business | ||
| Mc- | ||
| Mc- 03:53:38 PM | ||
| i think companies like google can sponsor such events too | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:53:40 PM | ||
| do we have a list like that? | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:53:48 PM | ||
| They were recommending Inkscape for writing XAML at MS a while ago. Wonder if we can get them to sponsor. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:54:08 PM | ||
| yep, google does their budgeting a little earlier in the year (around July) but it never hurts to ask | ||
| they have some flexibility 03:54:14 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:55:05 PM | ||
| should we think also beyond Linux? Any Apple/Windows type organizations that might want to contribute? | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:55:38 PM | ||
| good point bryce | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:55:40 PM | ||
| ScislaC: Maybe we should downgrade the website style sheet? :-P | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:56:12 PM | ||
| bryce, I think that's a good idea, but I can't think of one. | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:56:19 PM | ||
| ScislaC, honestly, looking at our income vs expenses, we actually are pretty well funded ;-) | ||
| LiamW | ||
| LiamW 03:56:26 PM | ||
| Mac users... are not so happy with X11 inkscape | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:56:40 PM | ||
| reasons for sponsors, I have now: | ||
| * PR among users 03:56:40 PM | ||
| * Improving a product that they ship 03:56:41 PM | ||
| * Improving a product that many of their employees use 03:56:41 PM | ||
| * PR among coders 03:56:41 PM | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 03:56:53 PM | ||
| LiamW: correct, that hurts us a lot with that crowd | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:57:17 PM | ||
| johan_e, sometimes they like the opportunities to "make contacts" either with the project's devs directly, or with their userbase | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:57:39 PM | ||
| bryce: We're not well revenued ;-) but for windows/mac side of things, I think we need to actually start getting some money from those users somewhat. We have fewer distributors and more direct downloads. Maybe it'd be easier to focus on those bugs if we had some funding directly there? | ||
| maybe off topic, let's leave that. 03:58:08 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:58:25 PM | ||
| LiamW, risking going off topic, but in fact that specific need was one of the items in Bradley's email. Namely the possibility of doing fundraising around hiring an experienced Mac packaging developer to get that fixed. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:58:37 PM | ||
| it may be a good idea to post on the Inkscape forum and ask if users would be interested in attending an event, and also ask if anyone's using it in a professional environment and willing to say | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 03:58:50 PM | ||
| in terms of offering our sponsors something, I think we should be very wary of promising technical fixes/implementations/etc. | ||
| LiamW | ||
| LiamW 03:58:58 PM | ||
| bryce: here we have a packager and a developer that are serious about osx packaging | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 03:58:58 PM | ||
| How close is a non-X11 Mac Inkscape? | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:58:59 PM | ||
| Wonder if we could get Xamarin to donate time to do Mac packaging… send a dev. | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 03:59:02 PM | ||
| johan_e, agreed | ||
| LiamW | ||
| LiamW 03:59:06 PM | ||
| Tavmjong, it's done already | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 03:59:16 PM | ||
| They ship a GTK2 product on OSX. | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 03:59:16 PM | ||
| right bryce, it's a good type of thing to fundraise for since those bugs are outside of the interest/expertise of the core team | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 03:59:30 PM | ||
| bryce: certainly-offtopic: There's always a question of hiring inside or outside the tribe. An outside hire who never does any other devel might be a little poisonous to self devels. | ||
| LiamW | ||
| LiamW 03:59:31 PM | ||
| but not that nice to work with yet (IMvHO) for power users | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 04:00:00 PM | ||
| LiamW, so it just needs polishing? | ||
| LiamW | ||
| LiamW 04:00:13 PM | ||
| the packaging is not really the issue IMO | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:00:13 PM | ||
| Tavmjong, LiamW: i thought so too (polishing) | ||
| LiamW | ||
| LiamW 04:00:17 PM | ||
| the code... | ||
| the underlying code is already pretty broken on wayland 04:00:27 PM | ||
| it's not so great with gtk+/quartz either 04:00:36 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:00:39 PM | ||
| doctormon, poisonous to the degree that you think it should be avoided entirely, or more like 'tread carefully'? | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 04:01:06 PM | ||
| bryce: I think it's an unknown dose. Hopefully we won't die from the first experimental attempt. | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:01:39 PM | ||
| doctormon, well I have on my todo list to get that fundraising plan posted on the website, then maybe we can try some small experiments via that. | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 04:01:47 PM | ||
| good idea | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:01:57 PM | ||
| bryce: "opportunities to "make contacts" either with the project's devs directly, or with their userbase" , can I group that under "PR" ? | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 04:02:06 PM | ||
| a lot of projects (Conservancy member projects included) have done this with no ill effects AFAICT | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:02:25 PM | ||
| johan_e, yep | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 04:02:40 PM | ||
| well so before we move completely away from the sponsorship discussion, should we get some action items nailed down? | ||
| I can ask Ruth if RH might have the budget and Cat at Google too 04:03:12 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:03:15 PM | ||
| karenesq, as we're at the hour mark, have we brainstormed adequate actions for you to work on? | ||
| karenesq, heh 04:03:32 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 04:03:42 PM | ||
| bryce, I was just wondering if we should have weekly meetings for a few weeks | ||
| I think there is a lot to talk about 04:03:50 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:03:56 PM | ||
| karenesq, I can do that | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 04:03:58 PM | ||
| and we've barely scratched the surface | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:04:02 PM | ||
| right | ||
| tedg | ||
| tedg 04:04:06 PM | ||
| _1 | ||
| +1 04:04:08 PM | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 04:04:09 PM | ||
| karenesq, Good idea! | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 04:04:20 PM | ||
| very good idea :-) | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 04:04:24 PM | ||
| also then we can track progress on action items ;D | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 04:04:29 PM | ||
| I'm down | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:04:52 PM | ||
| karenesq, I'm taking actions to get the fundraising doc posted on our website, and once we have things more nailed down to inquire with samsung for hackfest sponsorship | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 04:05:09 PM | ||
| fantastic bryce | ||
| LiamW | ||
| LiamW 04:05:50 PM | ||
| Tavmjong, johan_e: this manifestation of this particular issue, I thought, would have little to do with gtk+2/quartz | ||
| https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/96223438/irc/gtk%2B/flickering-gtk3-2.mp4 04:05:53 PM | ||
| but it seems to have a lot to do with gtk2/quartz failing to redraw the canvas all the time 04:05:55 PM | ||
| I asked around in #gtk+ on gimpnet 04:06:06 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 04:06:13 PM | ||
| so next week same time? | ||
| LiamW | ||
| LiamW 04:06:13 PM | ||
| we're doing it all wrong, apparently | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:06:24 PM | ||
| sec! | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 04:06:27 PM | ||
| Sure! | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:06:30 PM | ||
| (writing something on wiki) | ||
| hold on a sec 04:06:35 PM | ||
| a ok... you are not leaving 04:06:47 PM | ||
| just discussing a next meeting 04:06:52 PM | ||
| k 04:06:53 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:06:59 PM | ||
| ScislaC, I think you have the most recognition among the userbase right now - would you take the item to contact them for interest in the hackfest, and the action for getting a list of companies using inkscape? | ||
| karenesq, yep 04:07:19 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 04:07:34 PM | ||
| yep johan_e, I'll idle here, but I'm going to go back to doing other things. feel free to ping me directly :) | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 04:07:39 PM | ||
| Is someone going to summarize this meeting and post a note to the mailing list? I could do that but not till tomorrow. | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 04:07:46 PM | ||
| bryce: I can own those two | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:08:06 PM | ||
| Tavmjong, thanks that'd be great and tomorrow would be perfect | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:08:17 PM | ||
| I've added a piece of text on sponsoring to the wiki page. | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:08:27 PM | ||
| johan_e, mind adding these action items to the wiki too? | ||
| jabiertxof | ||
| jabiertxof 04:08:55 PM | ||
| in inkscapeforums.com? | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:08:58 PM | ||
| I really think it is not good to approach sponsors without giving them an idea of what they can expect from us. If instead we have a well thought-out plan already, they have to find an excuse for not sponsoring | ||
| jabiertxof | ||
| jabiertxof 04:09:06 PM | ||
| has a lot of users | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:09:15 PM | ||
| bryce: i lost track of them, can you list? | ||
| jabiertxof | ||
| jabiertxof 04:09:27 PM | ||
| http://www.inkscapeforum.com/ | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:09:28 PM | ||
| johan_e, I completely agree. We need to have some specifics nailed down | ||
| jabiertxof, I think just inkscape-user@ should be sufficient but defer to josh's judgment 04:09:52 PM | ||
| johan_e, sure one sec 04:10:53 PM | ||
| karenesq | ||
| karenesq 04:11:09 PM | ||
| johan_e, for many sponsors knowing that it's a hackfest for something they're interested in is enough. | ||
| and it's better to get them before they finalize their budget for the year 04:11:23 PM | ||
| anyway really going back to other things :D 04:11:36 PM | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 04:11:53 PM | ||
| Who here plans on being at LGM? At the hackfest? | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:11:56 PM | ||
| karenesq: ok, thanks | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 04:11:57 PM | ||
| jabiertxof: I will consider it. (that's not a concrete yes or no at this time) | ||
| Mc- | ||
| Mc- 04:12:05 PM | ||
| i'd say that too... and having it public at MIT that they sponsor some event for a libre software is already a good PR for potential people they'll be interested in | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 04:12:15 PM | ||
| I plan to attend both | ||
| Mc- | ||
| Mc- 04:12:21 PM | ||
| (if that's at mit) | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 04:12:52 PM | ||
| I plan on being at both. | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 04:12:56 PM | ||
| Tavmjong: I'll fight hard to be at LGM and the hackfest. | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:13:09 PM | ||
| Tavmjong: I plan to attend both, if (almost) fully funded. | ||
| ScislaC | ||
| ScislaC 04:14:16 PM | ||
| Tavmjong: add johan's caveat to what I said ;) | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:14:27 PM | ||
| remote attendance is also possible I'd think? (say, reviewing code fragments or smth) | ||
| doctormon | ||
| doctormon 04:18:01 PM | ||
| While people are here: The website actions to come include: An alert system for translators about new content. If anyone has any priorities, let me know now. | ||
| jabiertxof | ||
| jabiertxof 04:18:02 PM | ||
| ok ScislaC | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:18:21 PM | ||
| johan_e, ok I think I got most of what we discussed - http://pastebin.com/DHWZ1SpM | ||
| Tavmjong, count me 04:18:34 PM | ||
| Tavmjong | ||
| Tavmjong 04:19:05 PM | ||
| So we have at least five! | ||
| It's past my bedtime... so see you all next week. 04:19:24 PM | ||
| bryce | ||
| bryce 04:19:34 PM | ||
| lunch time for me. thanks all, cya! | ||
| johan_e | ||
| johan_e 04:19:37 PM | ||
| ltr Tavmjong | ||
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