Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2017-12-01

bryce****** Board meeting here in 30 min ******Dec 01 09:31
Mc Dec 01 10:00
rindolfmeeting timeDec 01 10:00
*ChanServ has changed the topic to: www.inkscape.org || Draw freely! || Development discussion channel || Next board meeting: `date -d 'TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 10:00 Fri Jan 5 2018'`Dec 01 10:01
bryceI'm sure everyone is going to be tied up with holidays this monthDec 01 10:01
bryceso let's keep action items light :-)Dec 01 10:01
brycethanks for coming, let's get startedDec 01 10:01
TavmjongWho's here?Dec 01 10:02
bryce== Board election process review [tedg] ==Dec 01 10:02
tedgHeh, it's okay. I haven't finished mine from last month -- so, I'll have things to do :-)Dec 01 10:02
Mco/Dec 01 10:02
tedgI'm going to have to punt that until Jan. Sorry folks.Dec 01 10:02
brycetedg, ok no probDec 01 10:02
bryceTask seems to have escalated itself, sorry 'bout that but thanksDec 01 10:02
tedgI started to make the repo and stuff this morning, I'm sure people saw the backlog.Dec 01 10:03
tedgI'll try to get that all together.Dec 01 10:03
brycetedg, I'll definitely lend a hand md'ing docs once repositories are settledDec 01 10:03
tedgCool, thanks!Dec 01 10:03
bryceyou might have seen I've started using that format for referendumsDec 01 10:03
brycespeaking of which...Dec 01 10:04
rindolfbryce: md==markdown?Dec 01 10:04
McyesDec 01 10:04
bryce== Infrastructure backup/alternate hosting ==Dec 01 10:04
bryceWe've received a single offer, I'd like to move ahead with it.Dec 01 10:04
bryceI posted a referendum to vote for it, if you haven't voted please doDec 01 10:04
TavmjongI need to read it a bit more carefully... I'll try to get to it this weekend.Dec 01 10:04
bryceI've spoken with brett at conservancy, the board vote's needed for them to register usDec 01 10:05
bryceTavmjong, thanks.Dec 01 10:05
TavmjongThere was one no vote.Dec 01 10:05
TavmjongDoes the $500 credit have a time limit?Dec 01 10:06
tedgbryce: I kinda got the impression it might be yearly?Dec 01 10:06
bryceTavmjong, not afaictDec 01 10:07
tedgIs that not explicit, or have they said no yearly?Dec 01 10:07
brycetedg, howso?  I didn't get that impressionDec 01 10:07
TavmjongHow much will be use per month?Dec 01 10:07
tedgbryce: Other people seem to have been using it that way for a while. I got the impression it was a 'program" not a one time thing.Dec 01 10:07
bryce"We’d be proud to support your endeavor by offering you $500 in DigitalOceanDec 01 10:08
brycehosting credit. Unfortunately, due to the number of requests we receive, weDec 01 10:08
brycecannot offer any more than that."Dec 01 10:08
brycetedg, oh, do you have links?  I'd like to see if that's the caseDec 01 10:08
bryceTavmjong, initially while kicking tires I'll go with the minimum level which is $5/monthDec 01 10:09
tedgLet me see if I can find what I was looking at, don't remember who it was.Dec 01 10:09
brycethere are levels at $10, $15, $20 with more capacity.Dec 01 10:10
TavmjongSo at $20 per month we are looking at 2 years of hosting.Dec 01 10:10
TavmjongLet me come from a different angle, if we need to spend $20 per month after two years it would not break our bank.Dec 01 10:11
bryceI don't imagine we'd need more than maybe the $10 level.  That's around the same scale as what we have set up with OSUOSL for the website (although it's not quite apples-to-apples)Dec 01 10:11
bryceTavmjong, that's trueDec 01 10:11
tedgI think we might be better off using mutiple $5 instances though, makes it easier to move if we need to. Can move them one at a time.Dec 01 10:11
tedgI can't seem to find what I was reading there. :-(Dec 01 10:12
brycetedg, ok well if you find something shoot me an email or msgDec 01 10:12
bryceok, thanks everyone for voting, if there's no other discussion I'll move onDec 01 10:13
Mcmultiple instances are better than one instance running containers/VMs for different services ?Dec 01 10:14
brycethey support docker, so that might be an option to think aboutDec 01 10:14
tedgMc: Generally that's the way the world is going. Micro-instances and lots of them.Dec 01 10:14
bryceI definitely want whatever we do to be replicatable/portable, even if it's just via scripts and good note takingDec 01 10:15
tedgI'm sure someone will put them all together at some time and "innovate". They'll call it a super-computer ;-)Dec 01 10:15
Mcintuitively i thought that it would allow us more balancing over instances to have several on one controlled hardwareDec 01 10:15
brycepossibly.  I'm kind of old school used to running on actual hardware, but certainly willing to learn the new cloudy ways of thingsDec 01 10:16
bryceok next itemDec 01 10:16
bryce== Preparations for 0.93 ==Dec 01 10:16
brycetav, thanks for keeping the gtkv3 page up datedDec 01 10:16
TavmjongNo problem...Dec 01 10:16
bryceglad to see the progress on the HiDPI bugDec 01 10:16
brycedo you happen to know if there's been progress on the windows performance regression?Dec 01 10:17
TavmjongNo. And it's the one thing I can't work on. I'll send out an email to inkscape-devel to solicit help.Dec 01 10:17
Mciirc the problem was in the gtk window decoration handling ?Dec 01 10:18
TavmjongI've got the color pallette bug almost done... just need to clean it up a bit.Dec 01 10:18
bryceTavmjong, thanks yeah a call to action makes senseDec 01 10:19
brycelaunchpad's been broken for a week or so, I'm getting error emails dailyDec 01 10:19
TavmjongDo you know why it is broken?Dec 01 10:20
bryceI think jabier had looked at it but I didn't understand the problem, and haven't had time to look myselfDec 01 10:20
Mciirc it already happened, was about upload permissions to the ppa (is there such a thing ?)Dec 01 10:20
bryceMc, upload permissions?Dec 01 10:21
bryceanyway, something we should get figured outDec 01 10:21
Mcwhatever pushes from the build to the ppa repoDec 01 10:21
brycemaybe I'll rope alex in, esp. if it's a configuration thingDec 01 10:22
TavmjongThere are two other items under the 0.93 section.Dec 01 10:23
Mc(maybe the stable ppa is "locked" in some sense)Dec 01 10:23
brycegiven this issue, and also the need for more testing on windows, I'm leaning towards rolling some testing buildsDec 01 10:23
TavmjongWhat needs to be done for the GPLv3 problem?Dec 01 10:23
brycemaybe after the first of the yearDec 01 10:23
bryceI want to make something easy for testers, but I don't want users using it as a quasi-releaseDec 01 10:23
McI can arrange for testing build to be available to people on windows10Dec 01 10:24
tedgWas there a service that does like a CI builder for Windows?Dec 01 10:24
Mctedg: there is (appveyor), we use itDec 01 10:24
bryceright, the GPLv3 issue is with one gimp widget that's explicitly licensed as gplv2-onlyDec 01 10:24
TavmjongWhich one?Dec 01 10:24
brycewe need to excise that widgetDec 01 10:24
tedgMc: Ah, cool. Does it help?Dec 01 10:24
Mcit ensures we can always build for win ^^Dec 01 10:24
tedgMc: Are the builds pushed somewhere?Dec 01 10:25
McnoDec 01 10:25
McI also created a hidden "inkscape-devel" app on the windows app store for windows (not yet advertized it)Dec 01 10:25
tedgAh, that's cool.Dec 01 10:26
Mcit provides automatic upgrades which is very good for testing builds, so once it's ready I'll update it every month or soDec 01 10:26
bryceTavmjong, hmm I don't have the info right at hand, but it got discussed and I think documented somewhereDec 01 10:26
bryceTavmjong, I'll dig around post-meeting and send you the infoDec 01 10:27
bryceRMS himself pinged me about the issue in fact.  :-PDec 01 10:27
brycewould be lovely to get that sorted and have the license clean for the releaseDec 01 10:27
Mctedg: @appveyor: it creates artifacts (a 7z archive of the build with a standalone executable) https://ci.appveyor.com/project/inkscape/inkscape/build/master-755/job/t52ikb0e4ov5df2w/artifactsDec 01 10:27
tedgMc: Ah, cool, I think the windows store channel is probably better though. I didn't realize you had that all setup.Dec 01 10:28
bryceTavmjong, I seem to recall it's a spinner or something.  kk thought we could reasonably do with just stock widgets for thatDec 01 10:28
Mcbtw the windows store version has passed the 100k downloadsDec 01 10:30
brycekewlDec 01 10:30
tedgWe should tweet that...Dec 01 10:30
Tavmjongbryce: There are three widgets in src/widgets/gimp, all three are licenced gplv3Dec 01 10:31
brycethe hosting stuff has been at the top of my todo list but once that's cleared I want to shift my focus to helping prep the testing buildsDec 01 10:31
Mcdev version link (from 1month ago, I'll probably update it in a few days (maybe this weekend)): https://www.microsoft.com/fr-fr/store/p/inkscape-development-unstable/9nk8xrpg9mjr?rtc=1Dec 01 10:31
Mcwhat we would really need would be macOS test builds that people could just testDec 01 10:31
Mcwithout the need for compilingDec 01 10:32
brycesorry I should have said gplv3-onlyDec 01 10:33
bryceI need to dig up kk's email.  He had contacted the authors to see if they were ok with them being used under gplv2, and two were ok but one was notDec 01 10:35
Mcmaybe a naive question (I'm not well versed into license stuff), can't we just "upgrade" inkscape license to gplv3 ?Dec 01 10:36
brycethe widget boilerplates say gplv3, however Inkscape is released as gplv2 or laterDec 01 10:36
Tavmjongbryce: Ahh, then all three widgets may need replacing.Dec 01 10:36
bryceMc, it's not a naive question.  in fact it's an issue the board voted on a while back.  we decided we wanted to stay v2 or laterDec 01 10:36
tedgI'd love to go to v3+ at some point. Not sure that this is that point though.Dec 01 10:37
bryceTavmjong, again I need to dig up kk's email but we got cleared for two of the widgets, so really just need to note the permissions for those and drop the third.Dec 01 10:37
brycehttps://sourceforge.net/p/inkscape/mailman/message/29596791/Dec 01 10:37
brycehopefully we have no v2-only code :-PDec 01 10:38
bryceok, any  other thoughts on 0.93 preparations?Dec 01 10:39
TavmjongI'm not sure I'm the right person to review release management...Dec 01 10:39
bryceTavmjong, I don't even remember what the question was for that...Dec 01 10:40
TavmjongI do think we need someone to come up with a plan... doesn't have to be a board member.Dec 01 10:41
bryceTavmjong, but if I remember I can find you :-)Dec 01 10:41
bryceone thing I'd like is if we can get the bug work done independently of the release process.  Having the release process blocked waiting on bugs to get resolved is a bit soul crushingDec 01 10:42
brycenot sure how to approach that though.  but I'm concerned it's going to be a larger problem this release with the gtk3 changeDec 01 10:43
Mcyeah but doing a major release that gets bad press because it's much slower or looks unpolished or other major problem is also soul crushing ^^Dec 01 10:43
bryceI'm certainly not arguing for putting out a buggy release....  ;-)Dec 01 10:44
bryceok, onwardDec 01 10:44
bryce== Merchandise sales ==Dec 01 10:45
bryceC R has been doing great on the stickersDec 01 10:45
brycewe seem a bit stalled for general merchandise thoughDec 01 10:45
McI think Martin wanted to compare quality of different stuff ?Dec 01 10:45
bryceprobably too late to worry about for christmas, so another thing to maybe pick up again in jan/feb unless someone is interested in working on itDec 01 10:45
tedgSo I've bought a few shirts from Cotton Bureau and liked their stuff https://cottonbureau.com/Dec 01 10:46
tedgI was thinking about approaching them, but they'd be kinda expensive.Dec 01 10:46
tedgProbably a $30-35 t-shirt with a reasonable donation.Dec 01 10:46
brycetedg, do they do one off sales or would we need to buy a run?Dec 01 10:46
tedgPlus, I don't think they have anything for Europe.Dec 01 10:46
Mc:(Dec 01 10:46
tedgbryce: They do runs, based on demand. So they'll put it out, print 50 of them, then take e-mail addresses for another group. I've see those groups been as few as 20.Dec 01 10:47
brycewell, the main thing to keep in mind is whatever we do is going to need set up through ConservancyDec 01 10:47
tedgIt would be different, but it'd get us screen-printing and a high quality T-shirt, without managing supply ourselves.Dec 01 10:48
bryceeven with spreadshirt things aren't quite fully set up (namely, the cash hasn't been arriving in our ledger)Dec 01 10:48
McI just looked at VLC, they use "unixstickers" for their stickers, but that site also does goodies apparentlyDec 01 10:48
brycetedg, a run of 20 might be doableDec 01 10:48
tedgYeah, I figured we could promote it when it opens... etc.Dec 01 10:49
brycetedg, can you investigate cottonbureau a bit more and if it looks like something we should dig into, send me an email with your findings and I'll work on itDec 01 10:49
tedgbryce: Cool, wanted to check to see if people thought the restrictions were reasonable first.Dec 01 10:50
Mc(including "git" stuff which is also SFC iirc)Dec 01 10:50
tedgAlso, the other thing I found is a company that does custom keyboards that would be willing to do an Inkscape keyboard.Dec 01 10:50
bryceMc, oh interesting.  Yeah projects that are already set up with SFC may have merchandise options already primed with them, so that may be an easier pathDec 01 10:50
tedgI need an artist to help there.Dec 01 10:51
Mcmh, interesting, they already sell inkscape stickerDec 01 10:51
tedgI pinged Josh, but didn't get a reply.Dec 01 10:51
brycetedg, yeah I haven't been able to raise Josh either, I hope he's okDec 01 10:52
brycehttp://www.unixstickers.com/stickers/software_stickers/inkscape-drawing-software-logo-shaped-stickerDec 01 10:53
bryceMc, unixstickers looks right up our alleyDec 01 10:54
tedgAt least they admit they're not donating anything to Inkscape :-)Dec 01 10:54
Mcthey are donating 0$ to ""Dec 01 10:54
bryceMc, yeah, hehDec 01 10:54
bryceI wonder how their product quality isDec 01 10:54
bryceanyway, worth a spot on the todo list.Dec 01 10:55
tedgWe need to get bryce on here: http://www.unixstickers.com/signed-stickersDec 01 10:55
bryceok anything else on merchandising?  I'll try to put some cycles into it myself but not for a few monthsDec 01 10:55
bryce== Hackfest ==Dec 01 10:56
bryceI see we have http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2018Dec 01 10:56
McLGM is in spain in April 26-30Dec 01 10:57
TavmjongI think we need to get moving on this... I was hoping would be here.Dec 01 10:57
TavmjongThere may be some money to sponsor a few people to go to LGM to work on Variable Width fonts, something Google is pushing.Dec 01 10:58
TavmjongIt probably wouldn't take much work to support them as the font stack is almost ready (freetype/pango/harfbuzz).Dec 01 10:58
tedgWhat town in Spain? (I forgot)Dec 01 10:59
tedgI think that Spain is generally good. Reasonably priced and easy to get to.Dec 01 11:00
TavmjongSevilleDec 01 11:00
bryceTavmjong, yeah we could certainly afford to sponsor folks to go to LGM for that, if it's going to get worked on there.  Do you want to try to recruit inkscapers to go?Dec 01 11:00
TavmjongYeah, I can do that. It's pretty easy to get to Seville from most of Europe... and Jabier is "local".Dec 01 11:01
tedgDo we have anyone local in Spain?Dec 01 11:01
bryceI likely wouldn't go myself, Europe is far from Portland, and I haven't done much font codingDec 01 11:01
tedgAh, cool.Dec 01 11:01
TavmjongMc: Are you interested in going?Dec 01 11:02
McI'm not sure I'll be able toDec 01 11:02
McI'll start a new job at the beginning of februaryDec 01 11:02
Tavmjong!!!Dec 01 11:02
bryceMc congratsDec 01 11:02
TavmjongWith who?Dec 01 11:02
Mc(R&D at Télécom Paristech)Dec 01 11:03
Mc(a french public higher education institution)Dec 01 11:03
Mc(mostly working with research teams in CS, on big data stuff)Dec 01 11:04
brycedidn't alex roman do some text stuff?  he's in romania iircDec 01 11:04
TavmjongMc: They were members with the SVG working group...Dec 01 11:04
tedgSo do we just want to attend LGM or have a hackfest next to it?Dec 01 11:05
bryceguessing Ede_123 is in europe.  mapreri is in italyDec 01 11:05
Tavmjongtedg: I think were committed to the Boston hackfest... but it wouldn't hurt to have a mini meet-up at LGM considering how many people are within a couple hour flight.Dec 01 11:06
Mciirc Ede_123 is in germanyDec 01 11:06
brycea mini meet up makes senseDec 01 11:06
tedgTavmjong: KDec 01 11:07
bryceif it's kept focused on european attendees, costs shouldn't be too badDec 01 11:07
Tavmjongs/I was hoping would be here./I was hoping Martin would be here./Dec 01 11:08
brycemaren's in germany too right?  I'd love to see her at an LGM, I bet she'd get a lot out of it.Dec 01 11:08
tedg+1Dec 01 11:08
TavmjongI propose that we sponsor attendees the same as in the past for the Boston hackfest and at a lower amount for LGM.Dec 01 11:09
bryceTavmjong, sounds good to meDec 01 11:10
bryceis the venue locked in for Boston?Dec 01 11:10
TavmjongI think so...Dec 01 11:10
plinnellloDec 01 11:10
plinnellbryce: o/  when is the event in Boston, I moved back home to MassachusettsDec 01 11:11
bryceok, well if it falls through for any reason, let's still do a main hackfest US-side at some point next year, and keep LGM to a mini-meetDec 01 11:11
bryceplinnell, http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2018Dec 01 11:11
bryceplinnell, MarchDec 01 11:11
TavmjongInkscape Hackfest 2018 - March 26th-30th (Boston, USA)Dec 01 11:11
TavmjongLGM 2018 - April 26th-30th (Seville, Spain)Dec 01 11:11
plinnellIf I can join you in Boston I willDec 01 11:12
bryceplinnell, great, I should be there tooDec 01 11:12
bryce== Other Business ==Dec 01 11:12
bryceI'm going to try to get the FY2018 budget put togetherDec 01 11:12
bryce(I don't want to be as delayed on that as I was this year...)Dec 01 11:12
bryceso if you have suggestions/ideas for budget stuff please toss 'em my wayDec 01 11:12
bryceok, anyone else have any other adds?  if not we can close.Dec 01 11:13
tedgNope, thanks bryce!Dec 01 11:14
Mcnot strictly board-related, but I added an item to gsoc proposals for a gui-less inkscape (being able to compile inkscape without gtk and use verbs, etc)Dec 01 11:14
Mcgui-free*Dec 01 11:14
bryceMc, great ideaDec 01 11:15
TavmjongMc: Sounds like a good idea! But how easy is it? We don't get a KK or a Johan too often.Dec 01 11:15
Mchttp://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Google_Summer_of_Code#P5._UI-Free_InkscapeDec 01 11:15
bryceI know for some time we've wanted to better tease out inkscape's engine from the UIDec 01 11:16
bryceeasier said than done though.  perhaps something worth roadmapping post-1.0Dec 01 11:17
brycebtw, another topic that has come up is using cairo's GL backend for performance improvement.Dec 01 11:17
McagreeDec 01 11:18
bryceI've been working on a benchmarking program called caskbench to compare cairo performance with various backendsDec 01 11:18
bryceI just added XCB support this week, so can now directly compare GLX vs XCB.  should have some numbers soonishDec 01 11:18
bryceok, if there's nothing else let's wrapDec 01 11:19
brycethanks all for coming, see you in Jan and if I don't see you before, have a great Christmas!Dec 01 11:19
bryce=== EOM ===Dec 01 11:19
TavmjongThanks all...Dec 01 11:19
Mcthanks all !Dec 01 11:20
Mc(NB: if you're unsure about the time of meetings (but timezonechange season has passed for the next 5 months, so it should be ok), you can run the command in the channel topic)Dec 01 11:21
TavmjongMc: Cyril Concolato was the person from telecom-paristech who was active in the SVG working group. He moved this past year to Netflix.Dec 01 11:21
McokDec 01 11:22
rindolfthanks allDec 01 11:25
jabiertxof_Board meeting is end :(Dec 01 11:29
jabiertxof_Im thinking usualy is on half hour,but seems is one hour an a half in the pastDec 01 11:31
Tavmjongjabiertxof_: Sorry you missed the meeting... We're proposing a mini-hackfest at LGM in Seville (April 26th-30th). Are you interested?Dec 01 11:36
jabiertxof_Yes TavmjongDec 01 11:40
TavmjongExcellent!Dec 01 11:41
jabiertxof_Also there is another in Spain about GTK. maybe i can think aboutDec 01 11:41
jabiertxof_But Boston seems too much to me, but realy want to see doctormo city!!!Dec 01 11:42
Ede_123Mc: You were talking about me before? Anything I missed? (I missed most of the meeting; only have the part about the mini-hackfest in my logDec 01 11:48
Tavmjongjabiertxof_: I forget, which city are you in?Dec 01 11:53
jabiertxof_Sorry Tavmjong, Im from Pamplona/Iruña, in the northDec 01 12:07
LazurheyDec 01 13:17
Lazurany announcement/sheduled date for the next meeting(s)?Dec 01 13:18
Lazur>vector meeting was overlooked last timeDec 01 13:18
brycehi Lazur board meetings are typically always first Friday of the month, and I usually put an announce out to inkscape-devel@ a few days ahead.Dec 01 13:20
Lazurso then it's today?Dec 01 13:21
rindolfLazur: it wasDec 01 13:22
Lazuroh :SDec 01 13:22
Title: Board Meeting - December 1, 2017
Text Format: IRC logs
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