linux adventure part 2

[brynn]

You will still have the live system available to you during installation, so you will have access to the internet from there. If something goes wrong, you can always boot into that live system.

But I don't think I would be able to put the installation process "on hold" when I go back to the live system to read the next step in the instructions.  Nothing about this is familiar to me, so I have no idea what to expect, or what I will or will not have access to, at which step along the way.  I guess I'll have to write down.....ooohhhh.  Oh, I have a little tablet.  It won't do much, but it will connect to the internet, and display a webpage!  Yay!  So all I need to write down is the URL of the instructions!

Make sure you know a couple of your passwords, so you'll be able to access the things that are important to you, no matter what.

I'm not sure what you mean.  I have all my passwords written down though, so I won't forget them.

All 3 of the instructions I've read, say to make the 3 partitions - home, swap and root.  At least one of them is fairly current....2017 iirc.  But none of them say what they are, what they do, or how I will use them, once they are created.  I guess I'll study the instructions some more.  If it looks like I can skip them, maybe I will.  But ideally, I'd like to understand more about what they are and why I need to make them.

Now that I've selected a distro, I guess I should find a forum.  I'm hoping it wasn't a bad omen, but my first experience in a Linux forum was one of the worst experiences I've ever had in any forum.  (It was several months ago, during part 1 of my adventure.)

A partition is just a 'drive', and you will be able to access that data drive from both Linux and Windows.

Ooohhh, I get what you mean now.  I could still get to the files from the file manager, just by selecting the drive it's on.  I thought you meant I'd have to log out of Windows or  Linux, and log into the data partition, to access them.

But on the other hand, if I can access them from the file manager, on a data partition, then I can access them on the Linux or Windows partition.  And it won't matter if some files are on one but not the other.


Thanks again for all your help, Moini!  I'll look up some forums, and see what I can find.

[Moini]

The live system keeps running in RAM, while it is installing the new system to the disk. The installation progress and steps will be displayed in their own window in the live system.

I thought I had explained what those partitions are for? There's really not much else to say about them.

Yes, but Windows might not easily deal with the Linux file system, depending on your choice... Linux can deal with almost any file system just fine. Make sure Windows can read the Linux's partition's file system, whichever one you choose. If you choose to encrypt your Linux home partition for security, you won't be able to access it from Windows at all, I suppose. It also usually is just more 'orderly' to have all data in one common place. But that's a matter of taste and convenience, I guess. I find it pretty useful, though, especially as I'm currently setting up my updated Linux system on a different partition, and can still find all my files in the same old places (and I will delete the old Linux soon).

[brynn]

The installation progress and steps will be displayed in their own window in the live system.

As far as I can tell, if I go to the 2nd step of the installation process, I'm blocked out from the live system.  The only way I've been able to access the live system, is to deny the installation process on the first page.  On my first try (was with Linux Mint/Cinnamon) I got to the 3rd step of the installation process before I realized that wasn't where I wanted to be.  And when I cancelled out that process, I was kicked out of....well, pretty much everything.  I had a black screen, and nothing else happened.  After 5 minutes of black screen, I had to shut down the computer to get out of the usb drive.

It doesn't seem really logical to me that the Cancel button on the 3rd page does something different than the Cancel button on the 1st page.  But apparently it does...   

But it could be there was a minimize button that I didn't notice.  Or something else.  (The buttons look very different from Windows to Linux....and even different among every Linux distro I've looked at.)  But I'll look again the next time I'm in there.  Otherwise, I'll just dial up the instructions on my little tablet.

I thought I had explained what those partitions are for? There's really not much else to say about them.

You explained what swap is used for, but I don't understand when it's used.   How does it know when the computer needs extra memory?  What things might be happening when the extra memory is needed?  The article goes into a long explanation about how much swap space to make.  But maybe I never do that kind of thing, so I don't need the swap space? Why don't I have a swap partition already?  Or do I, and it just isn't called "swap"?  I just want to learn more about it, before I skip those steps.  Because they are in the instructions for some reason.

You said the home partition isn't needed, but that doesn't really tell me what it's for or why it's suggested in the instructions.  The article doesn't say either.  But it must be in the instructions for some reason.  I just want to understand more about it. 

And I don't think you mentioned the root partition (unless I misunderstood something) (which wouldn't be surprising).  So I'm not sure if not mentioning meant that I should still create it, in which case I still would want to know what it's for.  Or else I'm not sure why you didn't mention it, and it still leaves me wanting more info.

Also, just because I want more info, doesn't mean I don't appreciate the info you give me.    I just want a little more.  Maybe there's better instructions somewhere, and I just didn't find them yet?  Searching is not one of my best skills, so I might have not used the best search words, to find these instructions?  It won't be my last search before I start making these major changes to my system 

Yes, but Windows might not easily deal with the Linux file system, depending on your choice... Linux can deal with almost any file system just fine.

So you're saying I might or might not be able to see the Linux files from Windows (or vice versa)?  What's the difference with a data partition?  It sounds like you mean to say that I will be able to see the files on the data partition (in the file manager), but I might or might not be able to see the files on either the Windows partition while logged on to the Linux partition or vice versa.  What makes the difference?  Why can I definitely see them in a data partition, but only maybe in the others?

[Moini]

Ah, that's true about the home partition, I'm so used to my user folder being in 'home'. It corresponds to the folder that holds the user folders on Windows. So that is where your application settings and your files (if you want to save them in 'Documents' and 'Pictures' and 'Videos' etc.) will live.

I don't think the specifics about swap will greatly help you advance. Just let the system do what it wants.

The root partition is... uhm... Everything. The system. All other partitions are just visible as folders inside it. Like in Inkscape, the root layer ;-)

As I wrote before, Windows cannot read all types of file systems, esp. not those used by default on Linux. I heard rumors it can read ext4 now (but I was wrong) - lol. This article is from 2017... https://www.howtogeek.com/112888/3-ways-to-access-your-linux-partitions-from-windows/
Linux can read Windows partitions just fine (also written above).

Yes, partitioning is frightening. You did make a full-disk backup and know how to restore it? I would make that my priority. Then anything else won't be a big problem.

[Moini]

I mean a backup that holds all partitions in it. Not just a backup that will restore your user data. That's going to need a full reinstall of Windows, if the partitioning goes wrong.

[Moini]

Suggested tool for this: Clonezilla , another live system.

[brynn]

Hhmm, I'm starting to get really confused now.....

If the Linux home partition contents corresponds to the User folder in Windows, what did you mean about not really needing it?  Is it because I could just put the contents in a folder, rather than a partition?  Or is it because it's better to make a data partition instead? (because the contents of my User folder, is what I understood you  meant would go in the data partition...well, the Libraries part of it anyway - the Libraries are Pictures, Documents, Videos)

The root partition is... uhm... Everything. The system. All other partitions are just visible as folders inside it.

"All other partitions are just visible as folders inside it."  That part, I understand.  My server, which is.....Centos, I think, is set up with a "root" root.  But I hate that root layer in Inkscape!  I still have no idea what it is or what it does, but it annoys me greatly!  (If it would just show up in Layers dialog, I would like it a lot more.)

I understand what you're saying about Windows not being able to see files on the Linux partition.  The part I don't understand is why Windows could see the files on a data partition, but not on the Linux partition.

Yes, I understand that I need to make a bootable recovery usb drive, before I start with the partitioning.  I'm pretty sure my Acronis software can do that, and the articles I read had links to....I assume, instructions. 

Then anything else won't be a big problem.  ....  That's going to need a full reinstall of Windows, if the partitioning goes wrong.

Uugghh - I would consider a full reinstall of Windows, a big, BIG problem!  But of course I'll back up my entire system with Acronis, before I start.  And plus I'll have the bootable recovery drive.

But I want to do some more reading before that.  I keep thinking there must be some instructions about installing Linux on a Windows system, from a Linux community, rather than from blogs or magazine articles.  I think I just didn't find it yet, and maybe I would learn more that way too.  And I need to scout out one or more good support forums for Linux Mint.  And I want to investigate the system on my live usb drive, a lot more too.  (and meanwhile, my landlord seems to have lost all sense of reason, and I might have to move - arrrgghh)

Thanks again for all the info.  I appreciate it so very, very much 

[Moini]

Is it because I could just put the contents in a folder, rather than a partition?

Yes, that would be the default for any system. A separate home partition is an 'extra', and does have its uses.

But I hate that root layer in Inkscape!  I still have no idea what it is or what it does, but it annoys me greatly!

You are in that root, when you are in the outermost SVG element, not in a group that is used as a layer by Inkscape.

The part I don't understand is why Windows could see the files on a data partition, but not on the Linux partition.

Because you can format that partition differently. The Linux system needs a file system that supports user permissions and execution permissions. But data files don't need that. At least it would be useful to have a partition formatted as fat32, that Windows can read, that you can use to exchange data.

Good luck with your landlord, I hope he's going to change his mind.

[brynn]

Thanks for the clarifications!

[TimiZero]

So brynn, how is it going?

I can understand your confusion, as i was only converting fully to linux after MS has stopped their support for XP around 2014. Before that, I had dual install of ubuntu 12.04 and XP, but was set up using WUBI (windows ubuntu installer) so it wasn't real dual boot experience. At that time what made me choose ubuntu unity over other distros, was simply because I thought it has many users and there's forum where i could ask questions in case i've stucked on something.

Although the review of the Unity was not that good in terms of it's UX, I sticked to it because it's the main DE for ubuntu at that time. That's why i did not even consider other derivatives including Mint or Zorin...LOL that was me using my "windows" mindset...

Since my system is very old, I changed to ubuntu MATE during the next LTS (2016) in the hope it could reduce the load a bit which turned out to be not much different. However, I satisfied with MATE and stayed with it until just recently when they announced there'll be no ISO installer for 32bit system in 2020 LTS. So, I was thinking since i'm gonna change distros sooner or later, I better do that early and this year LTS release seems to be the perfect timing.
NOTE*: LTS is long term support, mainly used by ubuntu to differentiate normal release (9 months support) with the 5 years support (3 years for other than gnome)
Trivia: All ubuntu based Mint releases are based on ubuntu LTS

Finally now I'm on Xubuntu, and i think i adapted to XFCE pretty quickly thanks to MATE. What i don't like about Xubuntu is the fact that there's no dedicated forum for it (other than having non-inspiring default theme..LOL). If not because of MATE's dev decision, i would have not moved to it.. On the other hand, what i like about it is the windows manager, XFWM that is quite friendly with my old system.

Sorry about the long and slightly off topic post, but my point is, it doesn't matter which distros you picked. There's always pros and cons, but linux is more user friendly than it was in 2000's era, so i think anyone could adapt to it easily. What stop people from using linux is normally either because of gaming, MS office, or their hardware not supported.

Another thing is, if you have a spare computer, it would be a nice idea to install linux alone there (so you can play around) without having to risk your main Windows computer. Or you could also use a virtual machine.

Last but not least, good luck!

[brynn]

Thanks TimiZero.

Unfortunately, I've had to put my quest on another temporary hold.  Our web host has apparently lost their collective mind, and I'll have to move our websites to another host, as soon as I can choose one.

But I'll pick it up again after that.

[TimiZero]

You mean this forum? I hope you will find the right hosting service soon.

About the linux, you can try it whenever you want. Top priority first.