Hello Everyone! This is my first post to this forum. Try not to laugh and scoff at me, but if you hafta, well go ahead...heh

I'm an Atlanta musician trying to handle my own promo because I'm really bad at telling people I don;t like the work they've done for me. I'd rather learn how to do it myself so I can trash and rebuild to my heart's content. I'm a total noob at Inkscape (and ALL computer design software, including GIMP) and have been self-educating for about a week now via YouTube. I can see it's extremely worthwhile and is something I'm willing to really give an honest go at. I'm freakin' addicted!

The way I've been learning is by simply trying to mimic YouTube tutorials. As you guys probably know, YouTube tutorials can be hit or miss. There's one that really blows my mind, however and it features no dialog, just some crazy german industrial sonic mayhem playing while our instructor blazes though the creation of a pretty cool logo. This lesson is what I aspire to master as my current goal. Before I go any further, here's the vid -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HciNiZXGKmI&list=PLACF3F6018EFDB805&index=5&feature=plpp_video

To be honest, I'm baffled from the get-go. Here's what I understand so far -

1. Open new doc, change grid properties to Spacing x and y at 10.00, close that box
2. Zoom in about 4x
3. Draw a circle by ctrl-dragging across 4 squares.

Okay? I'm already hung up. When this guy's circle is complete, it's larger than the grid squares he dragged across and the 3 resulting nodes(?) are INSIDE his circle. I notice that the small type on his screen next to the circle tool says "Handle to Grid Line" where mine says "Handle to Grid Intersection", resulting in my nodes(?) being on the perimeter of my circle and my circle being contained inside the 4 grid squares.

I know this has got to be a setting issue, but I have no idea where to begin. I've searched the web for all those word combos, and nothing. That's how I found this forum, though. I hope I've come to the right place.

I'm not even sure if this is the type of question to post here, and if not, ignore this noob. Any guidance is truly appreciated.

I'm gonna keep trying to figure it out on my own, but I'm fading fast.

thanks

Welcome to InkscapeForum!

I don't know if this forum is "the right place", but it's a good place, and the best you'll find, in my biased opinion .

Wow, that video does move fast! The artist appears to skip some steps in the process. I think they may be using a development version of Inkscape, which might account for the differences in the text that appears, which identifies the snapping target. I say that, because a little later ahead, it shows a snap target (something about a quadrant point) which does not exist in my 0.48.1 version, and I don't think it's available in the current stable release 0.48.2 either. So I guess the first thing to realize is that you might not be able to precisely duplicate every single step. Although you certainly should be able to achieve the final result with the stable release, or even older version. You'll just have to achieve the effect created by snapping to quadrant point, in some other way.

So the differences in the text that's appearing to indicate the snap, I would guess are attributable to what I think is a development version. Where it ends with "Handle to grid line" may either indicate some new functionality, or it may be that the artist really did snap to a grid line and not an intersection. Because the video moves so fast, it's impossible to say for sure. But my guess is that they intended to snap to grid intersection.

Those 3 items that you're identifying as nodes, aren't nodes. They're handles for manipulating the ellipse/circle. If at some point later, the artist converts the circle to path, then you will see nodes. It's going to be a frustrating video to watch, because after only 30 sec, I've had to stop/start/"rewind", etc, about 20 times already! So I don't know if that conversion will happen later or not. It might sound like nit-picking to you, for me to mention this, when it doesn't affect or occur in those first 30 sec (which we're currently discussing) but it is an important distinction that you will want to learn, and the sooner, the better (imo). Shapes have handles, paths have nodes. Anyway, if you look closely, you can see that the handles are circles and squares with a white fill and black border. When you see nodes, they will be filled with gray, and usually either diamond shaped or square.

The part that I see has been left out, is that the artist is drawing the circle with the stroke width already set to 30. Since the default width is 1, that's how your circle is drawn. So you'll want to change the Stroke Width (Object menu > Fill and Stroke > Stroke Style tab > Width) after you draw it. You can see in the bottom left corner of the window in the video, that's the indicator area. Sorry I couldn't get my snipper to work on the full screen version. But where it stays Stroke, then there's a black bar, then it says "30". That means the stroke width is 30 px. A little over to the right, you can see O: 80. That indicates the opacity of the selected object. That means that the artist has also already set the opacity to 80 %



Let us know how it goes

OMG brynn,

I did exactly what you said to do and it looks EXACTLY like what he did on screen! This has me jumping around the room like a 12 yr old girl who just got Justin Bieber tickets! You absolutely answered the question. The snap overlaps the outer part of the original grid and the HANDLES are now in the middle! It's the little things, y'know.
Now, the sad part is obviously that the tutorial isn't a good one to copy. The guy must've edited the video, huh? Otherwise, why wouldn't we see him tweak the stroke info?
Anyway, I'm gonna try to do the next steps later today and see how that works out. Last night I'd decided to try a different project (recreating the print on my favorite t-shirt, removing the background in GIMP, then tracing a bunch of paths in Inkscape) and stared at my computer for hours on that.
This stuff now has my undivided attention. I'm locked in. Thanks so much for talking to me about it. You're the first "live" person I've had a "technical" discussion with. Seeds of legitimacy beginning to sprout. Wow.

hi
Welcome to the forum, Brynne is great for getting you pointed in the right direction, yay.

I just wanted to suggest a really good set of about 13+ tutorials that start from newbie and go up progressively. As you can imagine, it takes a long time to become proficient in anything worthwhile, but this set is one of the best and quickest ways to that end. (p.s. the guy that made these used to host his own site, and had the tuts up on youtube, but it appears that he's changed to this location). Also looks like he's updated his tuts. anyway, hope these help, here's the site:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x8jpev ... igita_news
dee

You're welcome
I don't know if he edited the video or not. The way Inkscape is set up by default, is that whatever you did to the last circle you drew, is how the next circle you draw will look, as far as style (which includes stroke width, colors, transparency, and some other stuff). So it may be that he practiced first, and in the practicing, the 30 px stroke width and transparency were set. You can change this behavior if you want to, so that a circle is always drawn in the same way (whatever way you choose). And same for all the tools.

People have a lot of different motivations when they make a tutorial. It may be that the artist intended for people with fairly good Inkscape skills to use the tutorial. But since the results are just what you're looking for, don't lose it. You can gain some skills with Inkscape, and then come back to it.

I'm not familiar with the tutorials that dee recommends. But I'll have to give them a viewing. I'm thinking of setting up a website or webpage, which categorizes Inkscape tutorials by beginner and non-beginner. While there are loads of tutorials to be found (especially video) few are really good, and they're scattered all over the internet. So I'm thinking a good centralized index might be helpful

Anyway, good luck and have fun on your Inkscape journey

Dee, That's one of the guys I'm subscribed to. He's funny and pretty concise. I used his "vectorize a chicken" tutorial for vectorizing my t-shirt. That's gonna take awhile because it's all bezier and droppers. I know there's some auto-trace thing that can be done, but that stuff still whacks my brain. When I see those marching ants I get skittish, although I'm being pretty bold in my overall approach to this.
Brynn, I'm really starting to gather that knowing one's preferences is a key item. I have no clue what my preferences should be yet. I know I don't like new docs to be in such a small window and they always revert back to portrait for new projects. I want em to be landscape and zoomed to fit page. Doesn't seem to want to do that for me.

Are you heathenx? Because I have watched a lot of those vids.

I really appreciate you guys talking to me about this.

HEY! I did it! That was easier than I thought. I'm gonna do it several more times. Maybe someone can clarify what's going on with the clipping of the circles? Here's the process, I just don't quite understand why it results in a clipped circle.

Once the four circles are in place, select all and object to path, k? Now -

1. Select Circle 1, select the 12 o'clock and 3 o'clock nodes, then click "add node" which gives a node between those originally selected.
2. Select the new node, then click "break path at selected node", then select the same node AGAIN (?)
3. Click "delete node" then the whole top right section clips cleanly away...wow

WHY?

Can I post a pic of the finished project to prove I nailed it? haha

Ooops. You already told me those aren't NODES...dang it

Oh gosh, no I'm not heathenx. He's a much more accomplished artist than me.

Are you still talking about the same tutorial? Let me go back and follow it to the end (and stop, rewind, restart, repeat, etc.). I'll post back again shortly

Edit
Ok, after he finishes duplicating the circle, until he has 4 circles, he switches to the Node tool and clicks the "Object to Path" button on the control bar. So at that point, in technical language, they are no longer "circle shapes", they are now "circular paths". And the little squares now ARE nodes. In that video, it's hard to see, but when you're in Inkscape, you can easily see that the handles are white and the nodes are gray.

So that's awesome -- it sounds like you've done it! Congrats

Of course, you're more than welcome to post your finished image(s) in the Finished Work forum. You'll have to host it somewhere else, since file attachments aren't allowed in that subforum. See this topic: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7 I can recommend ImageShack and imgh.us from personal use. But all those listed (in the 1st message) are good. Since I'm not sure what you internet/forum experience is, I'll also post this link, in case you need help inserting the image using the URL: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11753 (Item 4a explains what you would need, in this case.) No offense intended, if you already know how to do it.

And one last comment -- I don't know if you prefer the video type of tutorials or not, but Help menu > Inkscape manual > Quick Start contains some excellent tutorials for learning the basics of Inkscape. Each step is explained, so there is no guessing about why or how things are done. In a couple of rare instances, a new version of Inkscape (since the tutorial was written) requires that a step be done a different way, where the tutorial has not been changed to reflect the new features. But that's very rare, and you may never encounter it.

Also Help menu > Tutorials, are well written for beginners, imo. They aren't the kind of tutorial where you have a finished product at the end -- they're more like lessons. But I enjoyed them because they actually are Inkscape documents, so that you can practice the techniques right there in that document, with images made specifically to teach certain techniques. Just be sure not to save changes, or you may lose some instructional material, lol

Have fun

Also Help menu > Tutorials, are well written for beginners, imo. They aren't the kind of tutorial where you have a finished product at the end -- they're more like lessons. But I enjoyed them because they actually are Inkscape documents, so that you can practice the techniques right there in that document, with images made specifically to teach certain techniques. Just be sure not to save changes, or you may lose some instructional material, lol"

OMG, I'm so on that!

To clarify on the crazy logo vid - So, what he did by adding the new node, selecting it, breaking the path at it, reselecting it, then clicking delete - is simply break 1/4 of the path? I'm gonna try and find an interactive lesson on that in the Inkscape help menu tutorial right now.

Also another burning question -

I'm wondering how these Inkscape skills will translate over to Illustrator if/when I make the jump into purchased software. I assume all you pros use both Inkscape and Adobe? Am I gonna see some huge difference? Is it gonna be like going from a 1986 Hyundai into a 2012 Mercedes?

Ecstatic about the interactive tutorials inside Inkscape. I'm SO going to run like the wind with this.

gvlive - yeah, the inkscape manual's tuts are good! Heathenex's tuts are great! LDD that I recommended are also great, I've used them all. Gotta love vectorizing a chicken, I did that one too, lol.
Please do post your end result (it might belong in the forum called post your work).
Brynn, I keep meaning to tell you, I think it's a good idea to put a list up where people can find the tuts in one place. I've noticed that many of the youtube ones from a couple yrs ago are now gone, or maybe moved. The hard part for you will be in tracking them. But if you've got the time and gumption, go for it!
dee

Oh, well now that you mention it, that was a weird way for the video artist to make that space. Instead of adding a node, breaking the path at that node, and then deleting the 2 new endnodes, you could just select both original existing nodes (12 o'clock and 3 o'clock), and click "Delete segment between 2 non-endnodes" button on the control bar.

In some ways Inkscape skills can translate to AI and vice versa -- but only in the sense that they are both vector editors. In some cases, it's just a matter of learning new words for the same thing. For example, I believe the AI equivalent of Inkscape nodes, are called points or control points. I think AI's Combine is the same as Inkscape's Union, while Inkscape's Combine must be something else in AI (that I haven't learned yet). Many people who convert from AI to Inkscape, are initially frustrated at the differences. So I would say, unless you need a feature which AI has that Inkscape doesn't, probaby easier to just stick with Inkscape. Or start with AI and stick with it. They are not interchangable programs. I have seen a couple of tutorials, and one Quick Guide, that compares AI commands to Inkscape commands. But people who first learned AI do seem to find it frustrating to switch to Inkscape. So I would think vice versa is also frustrating. Although I think AI has some very advanced features that Inkscape may be years away from having. And that could be very attractive.

Several professional graphics artists who participate on this forum, use Inkscape exclusively. On the other hand, there are a few topics on this forum, where Inkscape's status as not quite state of the art is hotly debated. Personally, I think it comes down to what the artist is comfortable using, and a lot of people are really comfortable with "free"!

However, having said all that, you do seem like someone who enjoys a challenge Maybe it's "right up your alley", as they say, to learn both.

RE: The non-end nodes...I know, right??

Since Inkscape is my first foray into manipulating software in an artistic way, I think the confidence-building is already paying huge dividends. I feel that, if I can get a grip on this free software first why couldn't I learn AI just as quickly?

Another question (sorry, I'm full of them right now) - It seems that users of Inkscape and/or AI also need to be proficient in either GIMP or Photoshop because the vector programs often require pixel-based images that need tweaking in those programs. Am I right? Should I be digging into GIMP simultaneously? I initially thought GIMP was the way to do all the stuff I wanted - UNTIL I found out that Inkscape is the answer to darn near EVERYTHING I want to do!

In a circular or ellliptical path, all the nodes are joined, so that it's a closed path. All the nodes are non-endnodes. In an open path, you always have 2 endnodes. There may or may not be non-endnodes in between the 2 endnodes.

Yes, it seems that vector software does often contain raster elements. For example, in Inkscape, everything that's a filter, is raster content. Often the best way to make a texture in Inkscape, is with a filter. No, I don't think you need to learn GIMP (or any other raster editor) to use the filters. It's just that there are some things about raster graphics that are good to know, when using a filter in Inkscape, for example.

Things like, if you scale it, it's going to become pixelated, even though you're doing it in a vector editor. The only other thing in Inkscape that's something like raster graphics is Masking. As far as I understand, masking works the same way in raster editors and Inkscape. And actually, this is a point that I can't make, because I'm not sure. If you apply a mask to a vector object, is the result a raster object -- like it is a kind of filter? Or is the result of masking in Inkscape, still vector? That point, someone else will have to answer. Other than that, I don't know anything you'd need to know about raster graphics, to use Inkscape.

I think I would be comfortable saying that I'm proficient with Inkscape. (Not an expert, but proficient.) But I'm nothing even close to proficient with GIMP.

Uh-oh -- you're like a genius, aren't you? Hey, if you're game, I don't see anything wrong with learning both Inkscape and AI, and/or anything else you want to do. I just wanted to point out that Inkscape is not like a stepping stone towards AI. If you can learn Inkscape easily, you probably can learn AI easily! But you don't need to learn one before the other.

I'm not sure how other vector programs incorporate raster content. So I can really only speak for Inkscape. And you don't need to know much about raster graphics. You cannot edit a raster image with Inkscape, at all. You can import a raster image, and even save it in an Inkscape SVG file. But you can't edit it. So for Inkscape, you don't need to know very much at all about raster graphics. I don't know if the same thing holds for AI.