Inspired by the success of Krita's Kickstarter campaign https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kr ... -than-phot , I'm wondering if a similar approach could be taken to develop Inkscape.

I realise that a possible lack of consensus on where the project money would go and what development should be prioritized, could be an issue.
However, addressing longstanding issues, such as the Bucket-Fill tool's bitmap-like filling and colour management, would go a long way towards making Inkscape an even better tool. And perhaps a Kickstarter project is the way to do this.

Being a huge supporter of opensource development, I would love to see Inkscape make itself **more viable for commercial projects**.

[*]What issues do you think the funding should focus on?
[*]What improvements could be made to make Inkscape's workflow even better for graphic/web design/illustration?
[*]Is a colorspace conversion extension viable?

I would love to hear your thoughts. The way I see it, funding can only be a good thing, as long as there is a proper consensus to get the ball rolling.

Here's the official info:

Inkscape Funded Development Model

To communicate with other developers, try the development mailing list or the developers' IRC. (very few devs participate here)

https://inkscape.org/en/community/mailing-lists/

https://inkscape.org/en/community/discussion/ (the dev channel is below the Kiwi applet) (which is more for users, although devs will answer sometimes)

The Inkscape website has seen unprecidented growth lately. If anyone hasn't visited in the last couple of years, they should have a look!

https://inkscape.org

To my understanding that funding model leaves it up to individuals or teams to choose what project they want to work on, and set up funding themselves. So that bypasses arguments over funds that might have been raised without a particular goal in mind.

I don't understand what you mean by "the Bucket-Fill tool's bitmap-like filling". I don't consider it "bitmap-like". It actually creates a new path, where there was none. Or do you mean you think it should apply rasterized color?

I agree that better color management would make Inkscape more attractive to professionals!

My favorite project for potential funding is animation!

Edit
1 more comment. There already is this extension, regarding color mgmt: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5943

Thanks brynn for the info!

I have to say, I'm a little scared of talking to the devs! I understand that they have their own goals for the project. But as I've said elsewhere, I can't help but feel that a few specific improvements could really make this tool even better. Especially for graphic and web-designers. On a wider level, improving a few of linux's core productivity apps would give the OS a bit of a boost too.

Well a vector editor should implement a bucket fill tool based on vector boundaries and paths, not a screen raster. When it comes to print design, this is a huge problem, as precision is an absolute must. There has been a lot of discussion about this already. However, from a dev's perspective, this may seem a bit like a feature request - which it isn't. They have labeled it as a "wishlist" item on launchpad, for some reason

This is what I mean about the bucket fill tool http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php ... _tool_fill

The color management extension looks cool! Is it still being worked on? I'll have to look into it. With regard to printing and stuff with graphics apps that are opensource, a lot of people are suspicious of proprietary aspect of print specifications - ICC color models, .ai formats, etc. But this is a result of Adobe infiltrating the printing industry decades ago. Converting to a correct colorspace is a necessary evil.

offtopic

If bucket fill would result in shape from path to path (which, by definition Béziers are not capable of by the way), anti-aliasing would still result in rendering gaps.
Maybe with a new blending/compositing mode it could work though, but until then the problem is present.

Slightly related:
tracing with overlapping pixels

Hey Lazur,
I didn't realise the anti-aliasing was a another problem with the bucket-fill thing... Hopefully something can be done about it. Do you mind explaining why the Beziers are not capable of path to path filling? (or even just link me ) If a shape can be filled in this way, I would have thought bucket-fill tool could operate similarly.

No, I don't think that extension is still under development. I think it more or less admits to being a stopgap measure, until better color mgmt comes along. I could be wrong about that though.

With regard to printing and stuff with graphics apps that are opensource, a lot of people are suspicious of proprietary aspect of print specifications - ICC color models, .ai formats, etc. But this is a result of Adobe infiltrating the printing industry decades ago. Converting to a correct colorspace is a necessary evil.

Coincidentally, there is a discussion about color mgmt on the dev mailing list right now. It's a fairly technical discussion...for me... (although the author says he has overly simplified it). It's related to this bug report: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/1457053.

It's kind of curious why you would bring up a discussion about development, if you're afraid to talk to developers. Have you seen the Roadmap? http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Roadmap You wouldn't necessarily have to talk to developers, if you were to subscribe to the mailing list. You could just read and observe (which is mostly what I do) and learn.

The best way to influence Inkscape's development is to become actively involved in the community. If you can't write code, find something you CAN do. https://inkscape.org/en/contribute/ A happy, energetic, motivated community can only spur on developers to reach their goals faster (my opinion).

By the way, have you made you thoughts about the PB tool known, via bug report on LP?

Based on this page, you cannot draw two parallel paths.
It's my assumption that rephrasing a curve to different nodes and handles doesn't work either -so that path intersections modify the shapes in a tiny bit. (In 0.48 it was notable, around 0,2 px, which got improved; as far as I know this behave is also related a way to anti-aliasing, though I have no insight in the implementation.)
If the bucket fill tool results in vector curves.

I would like to talk to the developers. But from reading some discussion on Inkscape, there's a lot of disagreement about what should be worked on. I have submitted my email for that dev list so I hope I'm added to it. Yeah I have been on launchpad but much of what I'm interested in doesn't seem to be worked on or is marked as Triaged or Wishlist unfortunately. I have confirmed aforementioned bugs but I haven't submitted anything that hasn't been reported already.

Inkscape has added some really useful features in the .92 release. I just wish I could use it for work. "Take my money already!" pretty much sums up my feelings on this!

Thanks Lazur for the link. I see what you mean, I think! I'm no expert in the intricacies of this stuff. I wonder how Adobe dealt with this... (is that a dirty word in this forum?). I suspect that a lot of workarounds were implemented for this effect.

cloudbusting, we're planning to hold another hackfest in spring, and there will certainly be a donation campaign for it again. And funded development will soon be exposed to the public, once the website is ready).
We could use your help for spreading the word about these, when they are launched. Or, depending on your skills, we'd certainly have some other work for you, if you can contribute some time

I don't know if there might be a way for Inkscape user community to organize something like this. But maybe we could make some kind of poll or survey (not just a forum poll) which might serve as a guide for programmers contemplating a funded development project.

Just the other day someone posted who was representing a group of developers who wanted to contribute to Inkscape, but wasn't sure what to work on. In the end, it turned out he had a narrow focus, which I didn't really understand. Let me find that link...

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=19488

So it might be worthwhile for Inkscape users to organize some kind of poll or survey that would serve as a guide, for potentially funded development.

I'm not quite sure how to organize such a thing. But maybe I'll post this idea to the Users mailing list?

Comments?

(Oh good, hi Moini, you posted while I was typing. What do you think about this idea?)

The funded development follows some rules, see the page you linked, Brynn.
Esp. it says:

We maintain a listing of proposed (unfunded) projects. Anything can be proposed, including feature development, bug triaging, documentation, administration, etc. but it must include a detailed description (>100 words) of the work to be done. Anyone may adopt these projects as regular (unfunded) development tasks, GSoC projects, etc. (This is so that any proposed projects that are fun or easy get done by volunteers, and money can be focused on harder unsexy work, and to make abuse harder.)


Once a proposed project has reached a certain age, it will be eligible for funding. We'll call these eligible projects 'jobs', once they meet the following conditions:

Has been on the Proposed Projects list for >=6 months
A Deliverable has been defined
Acceptance Criteria has been defined (see appendix)
A Time Limit has been estimated for how long the work should take
Proposal has been Seconded by another Developer that the proposed change is, in concept, worth including in the Inkscape codebase

Once a proposal meets all 5 of these conditions it is considered an Approved Job.

I doesn't say who can make a proposal - but from the 'another Developer' thing, I guess it's devs who may (officially) propose a funded job...
But of course, anybody can ask a dev to make the proposal.

But then they'd have to wait for six months, and only if the job isn't done by then, it will be eligible for the official funded development (This is to prevent abuse - make sure that the job is really undesirable for devs without additional incentive )
There are three 'starter proposals' in the line, those can be previewed here:
http://staging.inkscape.org/en/project/ (page is broken, nothing is official - just FYI - was mentioned on board mailing list)

Not sure how this fits with a poll - if you expect quick results, it's not going to be

Fun fact: we are both eligible to take on a funded development job - at least if one interprets the text strictly.

This is pretty much off topic, but answering the type of message posted here by the op is challenging and time consuming for us, and it nets the member nothing, usually. So I've hit a critical mass, and thinking outside the box. Lazur may want to make a new topic starting here.

So no, that's not what I was thinking. ....Or, well maybe....read on

I know that developers use the mailing list and bug tracker to find out what Inkscape users want, for new features. But my experience in forums is that most people, like the op here, either don't want to join a mailing list, or don't know about the bug tracker/feature request system, or don't have any faith in it. I'd estimate we get a new topic every month or 2, from people just like this.

They present fairly well thought, and afaict, fairly technically appropriate arguments for what they see as lacking in Inkscape. (the color management/cmyk issue is a common desire) They want to communicate with developers, and post here, without realizing it's a user forum, and that very few devs pariticpate here. I think developers are mostly unaware of how often this type of message is posted. And I feel like we members of this forum "take the heat" for the frustrations of members just like this, when it would be so much more effective if developers heard these comments. (Sometimes messages like this are much more aggressive, and sometimes even angry, although this op has been quite nice about it.)

Maybe the best solution would be for us not to answer them here, and instead, refer them immediately to the development mailing list. Although the sentiment of being fearful of talking to developers, that's expressed by this op, is also fairly common.

So from my point of view, participating in forums, the bug tracker/feature request system doesn't reach here. Yes, I always refer and provide a link to LP, as well as any bugs that might be related to the topic at hand (when I can find them).

So I'm wondering if there might be some way for Inkscape users who don't subscribe to the mailing list (I also think developers may be unaware how many Inskcape users there are, who don't like using the lists) to let developers know what they want for Inkscape. I don't know what this might be.... Maybe a survey posted in forums? But maybe we can find a way for users like this to have a voice?

What if we came up with a list of priorities, based on the opinions of those who participate, and then push the one at the top of the list as a proposed project? (Btw, there is neither a link to the list of proposed projects, nor info on where to go, to propose a project, on that page. Unless I missed it?)

(Also, btw, this is not the first member like this who has said "I have money to donate, just tell me where!")

Moini wrote:The funded development follows some rules, see the page you linked, Brynn.
Esp. it says:
....
I doesn't say who can make a proposal - but from the 'another Developer' thing, I guess it's devs who may (officially) propose a funded job...
But of course, anybody can ask a dev to make the proposal.

But then they'd have to wait for six months, and only if the job isn't done by then, it will be eligible for the official funded development (This is to prevent abuse - make sure that the job is really undesirable for devs without additional incentive )
There are three 'starter proposals' in the line, those can be previewed here:
http://staging.inkscape.org/en/project/ (page is broken, nothing is official - just FYI - was mentioned on board mailing list)

Not sure how this fits with a poll - if you expect quick results, it's not going to be

Fun fact: we are both eligible to take on a funded development job - at least if one interprets the text strictly.

Oh no, not looking for quick results. Definitely a long term endeavor!

The very first sentence says "Using the model we'll describe below, anyone may start an official fundraiser for Inkscape development."

Later "The person who organizes and supervises a fundraising campaign is termed a Fundraising Coordinator."

Later "The Reviewer makes the decision as to whether the job has been adequately completed, using the originally specified criteria.

By default, the Fundraising Coordinator is the Reviewer;..."

Assuming the Reviewer is meant to review the code, then the Reviewer/Fundraising Coordinator would have to be a developer. And therefore, not "anyone" may start a fundraiser, only developers. Unless Reviewer does not review the code.

Yes, I suppose by definition we could apply for a job. But of course I could never do the work. ....well....unless the project were an "open manual"??? I could do that kind of work. But realistically, that would need a team. Do you suppose we could propose an open manual for funded development? I suppose it's within the realm of possibility.

Re manual for funded dev:
There are some efforts going on about 'opening' existing manuals (Nicolas wrote about that for his book, current status unknown).
Maybe 'buying out' Tav's manual from the publisher would be an option, too...

And then of course, there's Elisa who has signalled that she would help, if there's a team who is interested. If we could build upon already existing material, that would be even better.
So: to-do list item: find out about current status of freeing manuals

I don't think the manual is a good candidate for a funded devel job.
It's an ongoing effort, needing permanent updating.
If you work on it as a team, it's probably more beneficial to finance the team meetings/team education/book sprint/buying out, than to give money to those who contribute.
How would the money be distributed?

I guess those funded devel jobs are best used for single-feature-things...

Collecting money to organize a book sprint, just like the hackfest, or to pay to free a manual, could make sense - only not as funded development.

Re who:
Reading your quotes from the text, I now understand that they really mean 'anyone can make a proposal'. The 'by default' seems to say that you can delegate if you don't feel up to the task of judging. Only if you collect money for a purpose, and there's nobody who wants to do it, the money will go to the main fund after a certain time.

Re how to make it easy to propose new features / show which bugs are important to be tackled:

I find launchpad easy to use :/
It is currently the central 'hub' of development.
It also has a polling functionality, and all it requires for voting is a login (just like this forum).

The devs seem to read the user mailing list. Referring there first could be a less frightening alternative (to dev list)

I see the task of this forum, regarding feature requests, in filtering and channelling, so the requests coming from here contain complete info and are not duplicates.

Re polls:
You (and the op) can organize a fundraiser, too
It would be wise to stay in contact with devs about what is realistic to wish for, though, so you're not in for a disappointment when looking for a 'developer to second the proposal'. Which somehow makes it necessary to discuss with the devs... Which can only be done where there are any

So maybe a possible way to do this would be to:
1. Select a few 'candidate bugs/features'
2. ask the devs if those are feasible
3. put up a poll to find out what users would pay for
4. then start a campaign.
Always tell potential donors that if the bug/feature isn't addressed by anyone, the money will go to the main fund.

Re web page:

Btw, there is neither a link to the list of proposed projects, nor info on where to go, to propose a project, on that page. Unless I missed it?

No, you didn't miss anything. It's just not ready yet.

So maybe a possible way to do this would be to:
1. Select a few 'candidate bugs/features'
2. ask the devs if those are feasible
3. put up a poll to find out what users would pay for
4. then start a campaign.
Always tell potential donors that if the bug/feature isn't addressed by anyone, the money will go to the main fund.

OK.
How would the "candidate bugs/features" be selected? Ask the community (forums and user mailing list) open ended question "what do you most want to see" and "what second (2nd)"? Or other way?

Hhmm.... Should there be at least a 2 person group guiding and organizing this process, choosing candidates, etc.? Should there be "Inkscape Users Development Group" or team or committee? Or something like that?

Re open manual
So you're saying there could be a fundraiser to perhaps buy out an existing manual, among other things, but it would be a separate fundraiser from funded development?

Re Elisa's team. I volunteered to help with that, when it was posted on the list, a while ago. But nothing else ever happened.

How would the "candidate bugs/features" be selected? Ask the community (forums and user mailing list) open ended question "what do you most want to see" and "what second (2nd)"? Or other way?

I think this is left to the discretion of the one who wants to start a fundraiser If one doesn't want to make everyone excited about cool new features (which might or might not get implemented), it's maybe best to just watch the discussion, and select the most often requested things from one's experience. It's probably quicker - and if discussion with devs shows that there's no chance this will be implemented, one can also swap with other things more quickly...

Should there be "Inkscape Users Development Group" or team or committee? Or something like that?

It's just one fundraiser among many possible ones - the person who chooses to start this can decide freely how they would like to do it.

So you're saying there could be a fundraiser to perhaps buy out an existing manual, among other things, but it would be a separate fundraiser from funded development?

If it is possible to buy it out at all... yes, that's what I meant. But this would probably have to be a board decision, and needs to be tightly coordinated with the respective author.

But nothing else ever happened.

Yes, that's true - we'd need a couple of people to translate to English first, I guess... I don't want to translate a whole book from French to English Or we'd have to be clear about what is to happen with the existing, non-free manuals in English.
Before we start this, I believe we'd need to find out more about the current situation, and then we can make a plan depending on the results Manual effort are in the Roadmap, for 1.0 ...

@Moini
Ah that's good to hear. Yeah I'll spread the word. I can't code unfortunately though! I'm a graphic design graduate. Hopefully I'll be employed by Spring though XD

@brynn A poll sounds like a great idea. And I understand your frustration. If your refering to that "This bug effects me too" poll counter on Launchpad, I have used it frequently, but it doesn't seem to have much impact, though you guys have a lot more experience with Launchpad, I'm sure.

As for the mailing list, I submitted my email, but do I have to be accepted also? I haven't received any reply as of yet...

The "Reviewer" thing made me apprehensive when I read about it too. As a user, I'm in no way qualified to tell a developer what to do. But at the same time, it leaves a lot of contributor's voiceless in a way.

@cloudbusting:
Great! Please try to keep an ear on the ground to notice when things are ready to be spread If nowhere else, it will be announced on the front page of the website (graphic design is a skill we could use, too... - see discussion here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape-web/+bug/1258842 - Lazur appears to have lost interest, or maybe he's just forgotten about it...)

Did you subscribe to the mailing list? It won't work if you just send a message - you need to subscribe and click the confirmation link in the email you will receive:
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/lis ... scape-user
Only then you can send messages to the list (don't use the 'daily digest' option - it does not work well...).

The reviewer thing can probably be shared - the proposer can try it out, and someone else checks the code. Any bigger change is checked by someone else anyway, before it goes into the program, AFAIU.

Moini wrote:maybe he's just forgotten about it

Not forgotten, too many projects running parallel.

My mind is aglow with whirling, transient nodes of thought careening through a cosmic vapor of invention.

@Lazur: