making fractals with inkscape

matty686 · Postby **matty686** » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:59 am

ok hears what ya do

import a bitmap image to use as a seed or make your own and use the copy as bit map tool (make sure its set at a high resolution)

next copy and past the image and re arrange and scale the parts and transforme them

select the whole thing and copy as a bitmap image deleat the orriganals and repeat have fun making fractals of infinite depth (because you are rendering them to bitmap as you go)

Postby **brynn** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:06 am

Welcome to InkscapeForum!
Maybe you could give us step-by-step instructions, hopefully including illustrations? I love making fractals with TieraZon and Sterling2, and a few others like Apophysis. But I don't follow what you're doing with Inkscape (maybe you left something out?)

matty686 · Postby **matty686** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:26 am

ok basically these are a new non math based fractal type (natural fractals)

matty686 · Postby **matty686** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:38 pm

here are some flower fractles

matty686 · Postby **matty686** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:46 pm

so basically to make this i took a flower shape and turned it to a bitmap

than i copied it and constructed structures by scaling and rotating the copies

than i made a bitmap from that

i used the new bit map as a building block and attached it to parts of the original structure

i repeated this process

by the way i am a pro at this

i use to do it with photoshop but i i hate how photoshop requires you to activate it every time you reinstall windows

i can proudly say almost all my software is open source now

Postby **prkos** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:49 am

Any reason why you convert to bitmaps?

Something (almost) like this can be done using VonKoch LPE http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL ... nKoch.html

matty 686 · Postby **matty 686** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:37 am

i convert to bitmaps because they take less ram

matty 686 · Postby **matty 686** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:53 am

ok so hears another tool (information provided by prkos)

another fun way to do stuff is to use the Von coach effect (unfortunately this doesn't work with bitmaps unless you trace them first)

this method helps to automate things and you will almost certainly find it useful

instructions

make a vector shape

(draw one yourself or trace a previously made bitmap)

go to the path menu and select edit path effects

chose add/Von coach in the side panel

than play with the new effect untill you like it

there is no need to convert it to bitmap because it is procedural (doesen't take up a whole lot of mem)

you can if you want to however

matty686 · Postby **matty686** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:32 am

yes there is a reason for using bitmaps it is because you can compress implied detail in them thus making room for more complexity without bogging inkscape
into a crash (by the way ink scape should have a 64bit version that would help a lot because i have 24gb ram) so anyway this is how its done if you don't like
do it the other way but as an artist i find this method very flexible it's only disadvantage is symmetry is hard to achieve (hint for any developers walking by :lol:

) but trust me in many ways doing this on photo shop was harder lots more ways to goof up :lol:

: tri julia2212.png (99.02 KiB) Viewed 7606 times

Postby **brynn** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:24 am

Oh man! I thought I posted a reply here yesterday, but it looks like something went wrong :oops:

Ok, I see what you're doing! You didn't mention that the original image must have some sort of symmetry. I just couldn't understand how copy, paste, transform, repeat was going to result in symmetry, if my original image was a family photo, for example :lol:

Yes, I can see that you are a pro at this!
This is going to sound nit-picky, but I don't think these are actually true fractals. Although they are quite fractal-like, and I can see where one could create images equally impressive as real fractals are. The reason that I don't think this can be called a true fractal, is that a mathematical formula is needed to create a true fractal.

But nevertheless, this is a nice technique, and I can see its potential, maybe even with not-necessarily symmetrical originals. If you feel motivated, can you show us one with color? You can start a topic in the Finished Inkscape Work (or WIP), if you want. I'll have to look into that VonKoch LPE

i would argue otherwise · Postby **i would argue otherwise** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:42 pm

while there may not be a formula there is a recursive program more of less being executed by my brain a sort of neurological program

these fractals incorporate lots of chaos in them the only and could easily be done with math if you knew the right formula i mean were fractals too aren't we?

everything we make or do is backed up by some equation

Postby **brynn** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:42 pm

Yes, I understand that fractal patterns are often seen in nature, and that everything we might draw can be descibed by a mathmatical formula. But I think there are certain commonalities shared by fractals. Here's the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

As I said, I'm being nit-picky about it. I can see that equally pleasing images could be made in this way. My point is that the chances of an image made by arbitrarily 'copy - paste - and - transform'ing objects or images, accurately reflecting or representing the proper formula, are pretty slim.

In any case, I do look forwards to giving this a try. I'll probably use that Von Koch extention, and I'll post it to the topic you started in Finished Work. Thanks again for sharing this. I think it has a lot of potential, and that others may enjoy it as well.

All best

matty686 · Postby **matty686** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:37 am

thank you at least acknowledging it as a natural fractal

by the way check out M.C.ESCHER and Jackson pollack
by the way i did my senior project on this and i have aspergers so arguing is useless :lol:

: got a problame.jpg (158.46 KiB) Viewed 7515 times

matty686 · Postby **matty686** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:39 am

sorry just had to put that picture i couldn't help myself

Postby **brynn** » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:57 am

by the way i did my senior project on this and i have aspergers so arguing is useless

So have you used any fractal image generating programs like TieraZon, Apophysis, Sterling2, FractInt, etc, etc. There are many, but few with active support, unfortunately. I really enjoy them though!

matty686 · Postby **matty686** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:35 pm

yes i have but this is still my favorite method plus it will always have support (inkscape is very active)
(open-source never dies it occasionally changes form but it never dies someone new just reuses the code)

matty 686 · Postby **matty 686** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 4:24 am

ok i do have one issue photoshop had a better scaling algorithom for bit maps I Give up

Postby **microUgly** » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:45 am

matty 686 wrote:ok i do have one issue photoshop had a better scaling algorithom for bit maps I Give up

Inkscape doesn't apply any scaling algorithm--rather it just sets the display attributes. At that point, it's up to the SVG render to decide how the pixel data is modified for display. The only time Inkscape will apply such an algorithm is when you save as Bitmap.

Certainly Photoshop has an advantage when working with bitmaps because it's a bitmap editor--it works with a grid of pixels. No such grid exists in a vector editor allowing for fractions of a pixel.

This is a particular good thread that discusses the issue - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5231&p=22667

matty 686 · Postby **matty 686** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:44 am

ok i figured out you can simulate the algorithm by blurring scaled down copies a bit

by the way the give up thing was a joke :lol:

matty686 · Postby **matty686** » Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:58 am

ok i fixed it my own way basically if you blur an image slightly after scaling it down it simulates bitmap editing :lol:

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hear is somthing else you can make

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good idea i will incorperate it

ok prkos verry impressive

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