i read the article with great interest but im totally unable to replicate the technique


when i clone the image, and cut/paste it outside the group, it appears clipped

it may be me, but it seems the article contradicts itself
in step 4 it says, to clip the image and in step 6 we clone the image

but in step 9 it says we've cloned the image before we clipped it....

halp ?

It works for me...

Important to ensure the group is being clipped, rather than directly clipping the image inside the group.

Once that is correct, the clipped group can be entered and the image can be selected, cloned and the clone can be cut. After which, exiting the group will allow pasting the entire unclipped image anywhere for other use in the layout.


Another way to get the same place, is to make a clone of the image and move it to the side, group the original image and clip that group. The clone should remain un-clipped.

ok, finally i managed to do it

1. group the image
2. draw the clipping path
3. select image and path -> clip
4. enter the group and then you will be able to move the image around
5. clone the image
6. cut
7. exit group
8. paste clone

tylerdurden wrote:Important to ensure the group is being clipped, rather than directly clipping the image inside the group.

i still dont understand this statement

how can i select and clip the group, when all i have is the image that is part of the group ?
or am i missing something ?

As you can see in your test and here, a group can be clipped...


So, any element in the group can be cloned and then the clone used elsewhere in the page.

In the case of bitmaps, the technique is very useful to avoid loading more than one instance of the bitmap.

Kudos to Xav for the tip and tutorials.

Sorry for any confusion caused by the article - sometimes it's difficult to explain complex combinations of operations in a clear and lucid way.

Espermaschine wrote:but in step 9 it says we've cloned the image before we clipped it....

My use of "before" in this case may be confusing you. I didn't mean it in a temporal sense, but rather a structural one: I didn't mean that the clone was taken first, then the clip applied, but rather that the the clone was taken at a lower level in the XML structure (i.e. "before" the clip was applied at the group level).

The key point is that you can group the image first, then clip the group. In this case "group" is something of a misnomer, as there's only one object inside it. Doing that allows you to enter the group in order to move the image (or to create a clone to cut and paste somewhere else) without changing the shape or position of the clipping path. Keep an eye on the status bar to tell you exactly what you've got selected at any time, and whether or not you're inside a group.

tylerdurden wrote:Another way to get the same place, is to make a clone of the image and move it to the side, group the original image and clip that group. The clone should remain un-clipped.

This is definitely an easier way to get to the same result in this specific case. One purpose of the article, however, was to demonstrate that clones can be copied and pasted like any other object - even in and out of groups, and therefore also between layers. That's why I took the slightly more convoluted approach.


Anyway, it's good to know that someone's reading the articles and trying the techniques

Xav wrote:Anyway, it's good to know that someone's reading the articles and trying the techniques

i think you are doing a great community service - that can not be praised enough !



you know the thing that distracted me the most about the article was the whole xml thing

i rarely use it and everytime i do, i feel like im "hacking" the program
its abit scary as it feels like messing with the wiring under the board

i do understand why you included the xml code into your tutorial, but it was a bit too much to digest for me
i was like: wow, can i just skip this and get to the beef ?

dealing with xml codes feels like something for the pros
im still trying to learn how to do the things i want

the technique shown in your article will be useful for me at some point, im sure about that
but there are a lot of concepts to grasp

i would also be interested to understand what exactly a clone is in relation to filesize
it seems its not a copy or a form of compression (like the graphics equivalent of an mp3)

Espermaschine wrote:i would also be interested to understand what exactly a clone is in relation to filesize
it seems its not a copy or a form of compression (like the graphics equivalent of an mp3)

Once the data in the bitmap is referred to in the file (linked or embedded data), it is available to use and re-use within the document, simply by referring back to its source or reference(s) pointing to the source.

Not unlike using an image in a webpage, where images can be used in single, double, multiples or wallpapered, etc., but with much more interesting and useful capacities.

tylerdurden wrote:

Espermaschine wrote:i would also be interested to understand what exactly a clone is in relation to filesize
it seems its not a copy or a form of compression (like the graphics equivalent of an mp3)

Once the data in the bitmap is referred to in the file (linked or embedded data), it is available to use and re-use within the document, simply by referring back to its source or reference(s) pointing to the source.

Not unlike using an image in a webpage, where images can be used in single, double, multiples or wallpapered, etc., but with much more interesting and useful capacities.

so its a kind of link ?

yep!

PS

In fact, the jargon is precisely "Link" or "UnLink" clones.

For a simple example, import a bitmap into Inkscape and open the xml editor... you will see the image object has a bunch of associated data. The object has an ID, e.g. "image3377" .

Making a clone of the bitmap will create an object that has an ID, e.g. "use3377", but no other associated data, since image3377 has it already. (xlink:href #image3377)

If you break the link to the original, the former clone will then have its own associated data (a copy of 3377), and yes, the file size will expand accordingly.

thanks for the explanation !

Espermaschine wrote:

tylerdurden wrote:Important to ensure the group is being clipped, rather than directly clipping the image inside the group.

i still dont understand this statement

how can i select and clip the group, when all i have is the image that is part of the group ?
or am i missing something ?

As far as I understood the article started by the clones, and showed a way how a mix of grouping and clipping can be used.
Going from the opposite side: you have one object you want to use more times, all related to a parent --->use clones.
Once you have your cloned objects, you can clip them individually if you will.


The other part, which actually is in focus, has nothing to do with clones, but the svg structure.
By grouping an object/putting it into a group, it will get another object indication.
That way, you can preserve the position of the group, while entering it, you can move the object.

Keep an eye to the indication bar at the bottom.
You can enter the group by double clicking, and exit by clicking on an object out of the group.
Can be confusing with nested groups.
A more polished solution is to press Ctrl+Enter to enter the group, and Ctrl+Backspace to exit it.


Other important uses of the mentioned behave:
Apply filter on the group, and not on the object inside.
0.48's onscreen renderer produced a pixelated look on transformed blurring for example.
That way unwanted filter transformation can be avoided.

Another one is, the ability to apply more than one clipping to the "same" object.
Clip one object, put it into a group, and clip again if necessary.
Can be seen similar if opened a pdf with inkscape; multiple maskings and multiple clippings...

Espermaschine wrote:you know the thing that distracted me the most about the article was the whole xml thing

i rarely use it and everytime i do, i feel like im "hacking" the program
its abit scary as it feels like messing with the wiring under the board

I hadn't really planned to introduce the XML editor yet, but my hand was forced in the previous article when I dealt with an Inkscape bug that can only be worked around by editing the XML. Having introduced readers to the XML editor, I decided to reference it again in this article to help reinforce the stuff from issue #91.

Note that issue #92 only suggests opening the XML editor to get an alternative view of what's happening when you make the changes graphically. I don't tell you to make any changes via the XML editor in this article. So yes, I'm showing you the wiring under the board as a bit of background, but I'm not handing you a soldering iron and telling you to start re-wiring it on your own.

Espermaschine wrote:dealing with xml codes feels like something for the pros
im still trying to learn how to do the things i want

the technique shown in your article will be useful for me at some point, im sure about that
but there are a lot of concepts to grasp

Have you worked your way through the previous articles? I try to write the series to build on concepts and ideas that I've introduced previously, so if you're finding it to be a lot to grasp in this one article you might be better off revisiting some of the older ones first.

Do let me know if there's anything mentioned in an article that isn't either explained within that article, or within one of the earlier ones, as it's easy to lose track of what I have and haven't covered.

Xav wrote:

Espermaschine wrote:Have you worked your way through the previous articles?

yes i checked them all

and i think feedback is very important for the kind of work you are doing
i know, because most of the tutorials i wrote for my blog really grew out of some kind of group dynamic

a lot of the interesting stuff really comes from tutorials that show specific stuff
i learned all my Inkscape basics from heathenX and PhotoAdvanced2 on youtube
but for me they came in the wrong order, because PhotoAdvanced2 started last year or something, while the heathenX stuff is much older
and PhotoAdvanced2 is good for learning the tools, while heathenX is good for projects

im currently more interested to see projects
your article was a good hybrid between the two styles