Grendizer

lejimi · Postby **lejimi** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:02 pm

Hi ! I'm trying to draw the biggest hero from my chilhood : Goldorak which is the French name for Grendizer I think. I use a picture found on the web as a guide. I've drawn the parts and I'm know working on highlights and shadows (which I will make transparent and blur a little). Here's the file :

Praises, comments and advices are welcome :-)

ragstian · Postby **ragstian** » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:30 pm

Hi.

(I tried to paste the Dropbox link between svg tags, but the picture wouldn't show, could someone explain it to me ?)

Use the SVG tags as this; ( note the use of "dl" instead of "www" in the URL. )
Cut & past from this to your post.
(Here in a code tag as NOT to display your drawing in my post!)

Code: Select all

[url=https://dl.dropbox.com/s/j5w7cfmczxz5i47/Goldorak.svg][svg]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/j5w7cfmczxz5i47/Goldorak.svg[/svg][/url]

Good Luck.
RGDS
Ragnar

Lazur · Postby **Lazur** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:12 am

The bitmap image was linked so can't compare the vectors with the original.
On the style: there are parts covering the outlines which doesn't work right.
All outlines would be better on top, while the fills could be drawn as separate paths below them.
Especially with those white paths for the highlights.
The character's right hand has some small mistakes on the middle.

lejimi · Postby **lejimi** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 12:57 am

Thank you Ragnar. I edited the first post to have picture showing correctly. I also incorporated the model, so it's now possible to compare.

The parts covering outline are highlights wich I intend tu blur and make transparent. This should solve the problem. If it doesn't, yes, I'll put outline on a dedictated layer.

The hands are roughly drawn just to see them in place. I'll had details later, but it won't be a piece of cake as hands are always a difficult task and as the model is quite dark in those parts. Lazur URH, could you please be more precise about the mistakes you saw here ?

Lazur · Postby **Lazur** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 1:58 am

This part:

did a quick 3D sketch of it:
http://kepfeltoltes.hu/130601/robo1_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png

flamingolady · Postby **flamingolady** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:47 am

It's a really good start!
Now for the details, lining up the spurs (or whatever to call them, lol). I would suggest now to zoom your pic out to about 300% for example, then you can adjust the nodes because the inconsistencies will start to pop out at you. good luck. be sure to show us your next step! I think you are on the right track.

lejimi · Postby **lejimi** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:50 am

Hey ! I'm sure you'll be quicker to make a 3D Grendizer than I'm to copy a 2D one ;-)

My main trouble is that I can't draw. I'm able to do something correct by tweaking vectors, but drawing...

flamingolady · Postby **flamingolady** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:17 am

Lejimi - you'll be drawing in no time! I never thought I could do it either. It's all about tweaking, lol. I learned by following basic tuts (now I was an acrylic painter/artist, but that again was learned, and still not drawing). I found one good method (at least for me), is to take a drawing, pic or whatever, and lock it in (go to object, properties, then lock), enlarge it enough to see details, don't need to see the whole pic at once, then draw with your Bezier tool or pencil tool, over the existing pic. voila, learning to draw. There are some good tuts that show this method on YouTube. Just wondering if you are using that method here? if not, maybe give it a try, if you hate it, it's easy enough to delete, lol. BTW, I think you're doing just fine!!! hang in there. I'm still learning too, it amazes me what some of these people can do with Inkscape! I can only hope to be there given that I should live long enough!!! : ) and I'm old to start with!

lejimi · Postby **lejimi** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:05 am

Yep that's exactly the "tracing paper" method I use, but it's not plainly satisfying. If you zoom too much, for instance, you make meaningless gestures and can't keep in mind the overall shape. I used this technic much when working in a screenprinting workshop, but we mostly reproduced logos which are usualy very geometric things.

About reflections and shadows, I understood that they create the depth illusion, but I guess there are some rules. The more highlights contrast with basic color, the mre the material is shiny, and the neater are the limits. And so on...

flamingolady · Postby **flamingolady** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:58 am

Lejimi - re: shadows, etc. yep, then throw in opacity and whether or not to use blur. my eyes go criss crossed on all that, which is why I'm still learning, esp about depth and could use more tuts on perspective too.
OFF TOPIC- Lejimi - if you don't mind me asking - what is your avi of? I love looking at avi's, but they're so small on here, even after clicking on yours, I can't tell. (Guess mine is pretty obvious, lol). IS that a dog in white in front, or is that my imagination?

Lazur · Postby **Lazur** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:53 am

Looked up some more reference images to have a closeup on those spikes but it seems there are several versions out there.
On 2D images there are 8 of them, while the plastic figures have mostly six.
Even those figures have main differences in the size rations between their parts.
This image could be remodelled with the less effort, but it doesn't look so right compared with this or this.

lejimi · Postby **lejimi** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 5:42 pm

Thanks Lazur for this extra search. I would say the second image is the best. This character is deep carven in my memory and like any schoolboy of my generation I used to draw it much when I was young (so much younger than today ;-)

) The first and third one seem wrong in their proportions, and the figurine building implies many differences with the original drawing.

Like Flamingolady I think it would be great to have a tutorial about classical drawing rules. Maybe someone here feels skilled enough to do it ? I'm ready to give a hand to this tutorial making. About perspective I found this http://ahninniah.blogspot.ru/2013/05/drawing-in-perspective-with-inkscape.html and I intend to work it out. About reflection and shadows I think I'll look seriously for something useful and share it here if I find.

Off topic:

Flamingolady, my avi is captan Caveman a cartoon charachter who is my main source of inspiration when it comes to hairdressing matters : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Caveman_and_the_Teen_Angels

Lazur · Postby **Lazur** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:11 pm

That perspective tutorial wont help you much with perspective. -Drawing a streetview "like from a car", which height is as of the third floor?-
Look up descriptive geometry if you are really interested in drawing in perspective.
In my opinion it is easier to make a 3D model than to construct a geometrically correct image from it.
For project likethis I suggest to use blender.

lejimi · Postby **lejimi** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 6:48 pm

It's the first tutorial I found, and it's no so bad. I gave a try to Blender once, it's a great soft, but it's very difficult to learn it. In front of this billion-buttons screen I felt as if I was a very stupid guy :-)

Lazur · Postby **Lazur** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:16 pm

Here is a quick tutorial that is containing the basic working tools in blender:
http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15061&p=56953#p56924

Druban did a quite good tutorial on perspective here if you didn't see that already:
http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13017&p=52072

Postby **druban** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:18 pm

Hi LeJimi, Good luck with your project! The perspective with Inkscape page from that nice young lady is neatly put together, and she does show the use of the perspective extension and the box tool whichare very useful for Inkscape perspective drawing. I have grave doubts about the panel in which she demonstrates 3 point perspective and she probably needs to work on that quite a bit more.
As Lazur pointed out it's very easy to use a 3D application to at least lay out the basic elements of your figure and generate a rough pic to use as a guide for drawing in Inkscape. IMO trying to learn how to design and draw with vectors at the same time as trying to learn 3point perspective is like trying to learn two languages at once - I suppose it can be done but probably not as well as if each one were taken separately!
If Blender is a lot to digest there are several other less complex and free to try 3D programs that will work for creating a simple perspective correct group of box shapes that would work as a guide picture... even Google's sketchup should be sufficient for the task! There's Bryce too and Hexagon....

Maestral · Postby **Maestral** » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:13 pm

lejimi wrote:Like Flamingolady I think it would be great to have a tutorial about classical drawing rules. Maybe someone here feels skilled enough to do it ?

I`m not quite sure what would you call "classical drawing rules" but I`d warmly recommend these tuts. Many basic things are very nicely explained, regardless to sw which has been used. Also, check this video tut since drawing is done with Inkscape.

lejimi · Postby **lejimi** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:40 am

Thank you for the links : the cowboy tutorial is great and has a funny music !

flamingolady · Postby **flamingolady** » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:21 am

I also appreciate the drawing resources, it's hard to explain what one needs when you don't know enough to put your finger on it (like the saying - you just don't know what you don't know). As a tut example of something that is needed which I have learned, but can't teach - is on how to draw people - sizing of head vs body, length of arms, placement of eyes in relation to top of ears, keeping fingers relative to hand size, stuff like that. I must say that after seeing the dxf thread, which was referenced, and seeing the amazing spinning tutos (is that the correct word), I'm all psyched up to attempt Blender again, as there are finally some tuts that go with the latest version.

Druban - I'm glad you (and others) think Blender is 'very easy', but lawdy lawdy, some of us get caught in Blender's 'blades'. I'm glad that I've learned at least the basics of Inkscape first, and now might try Blender again.

Off Topic: Lejimi - I remember that Caveman cartoon! showing my age again, as a dinosaur, lol, but I was just graduating HS when it came out, so a bit too old for it. I wasn't sure if your avi was a caveman with a bat or the holy Joseph figure that got shaggy, LOL! My eyesight isn't what it used to be.

lejimi · Postby **lejimi** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:11 am

I uploaded the last version of the svg file. Now there are some shadow (but not all) and the outline are in a layer above the others. The hands are still to be designed with details.

I will have to tweak my shadows and highlights to determine the right transparency and blur amount.

Lazur · Postby **Lazur** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:57 am

Before any further colouring I would much recommend to edit those nodes in the outlines as in this attachment.
Hope you can benefit from that small sample how it was modified on that part:
no unnecessary lines used, no parts drawn more than once above eachother
paths are opened where needed
ends are not pulled all onto path intersections
nodes are only where really necessary
-in about every 90° turn, at inflection points-
handles adjusted to be about 1/3 of the segments,
transparency is lowered and colours used to easier drawing.

In my opinion only after these things are corrected is time to think of the colouring.

-And for that future time you may look at Dillerkind's works here
to get an idea how blurring may be unnecessary for a decent style.

lejimi · Postby **lejimi** » Tue Jun 04, 2013 4:44 am

Yes I know that I made my outlines a way that creates many points (use of ctrl + /) and that some path are overlapping because they're all closed. Maybe you could propose a method to cure this last point ? Anyway, you were very kind to take some time to create this example, it'll be very usefull.

Recently I experimented with cars drawing and had to invent my own method (more or less). I think that the problem is the same here : I've to find my way, but this way has to be logical. So advices are priceless. I had a look to Dillerkind's works : I fear it's far above my skills.

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