Hey everyone. I'm hoping someone can help me before I throw my computer into traffic. I've been trying to trace this image (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/smfyr77uewzk ... ch%201.jpg) and my computer freezes when I click ok to start it. I'm hoping someone feels charitable enough to help me out by tracing this picture for me so I can have a SVG file to work with. It would be AWESOME if you were willing to do a little bit more but am totally content with the trace. The guy that made this patch has been gone for 10+ years now and there's no computer file for it other than the picture of it on a shirt. ANY help with this would be GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks!
Dan

Welcome Dan!

As it happens, I had a bad reaction to a new medication a few months ago, and had to call 911. Even though we probably live in different communities, I'd be glad to work up a line drawing, and maybe more, depending on time restrictions, yours and mine. I tend to work rather slowly, so someone else may be able to rip it out fairly quickly. But honestly, I just like to play with Inkscape. If someone else does a better or faster job, I would still have fun trying

Um, just for your own info, I'm not sure why you were having the crash. I see that the full size could almost go on the front or back of a shirt, rather than a patch. So if your system is low on RAM, that could be it. I know that Inkscape can't save JPGs, but I'm pretty sure it can import them. I'll know soon enough

Oh, I guess as I re-read your message, I'm not clear if you mean a manual trace or automated trace? I think a manual trace would be better, because the automated trace (Path menu > Trace Bitmap) will pick up the shadows and the folds in the fabric.

Yeah, it's too bad you can't contact the original artist. That's a nice image

Thanks brynn!!!

I have no time restriction whatsoever. This is a surprise so no one is really expecting anything so please take as much time as you need to.

When I was trying to trace the image, it was an automated trace. Hopefully you'll have better luck than I did.

If you have any questions for me, please let me know!

Thanks again!!! This is GREATLY appreciated!

Hi guys!
I did a bunch of tracing today so one more would not make a big thing.
Also it appears like it`s better to keep brynn busy with Inkscape rather then in chemistry lab ,)
[ Hope it`s all behind you and that you`re feeling fine now ]

It`s autotraced, but still...
It has tree variations and hope it would be of some help.

Hhm, that does not look like a trace from Inkscape, Maestral. Did you use the ROIT Systems engine, or another?

A couple more comments/questions, Dan. Did you say this was a patch, or is going to be a patch (or both)? What will it's size be once it's "patchified"? Maybe machine embroidery technology is a lot better than it used to be, but that seems like a lot of detail for a patch that would go, for example on the sleeve of a uniform. Oorrr.....actually since that's a picture of it, it looks like it's not the machine embroidered type of patch at all. It looks more like it might have been screen-printed? Or maybe I just have the wrong idea what you mean by patch???

If it was a patch with all that detail before, then I'll just continue with my fun-having work. If it hasn't ever been used for a patch, then I'm thinking it might be better to leave out some details, such as some of the hatchmarks used for shading.

Not all of them. But for example, instead of the hatchmarks that make for shading on the underside of the firehat, that could be achieved with just a darker shade of red. If you notice how the fire has blotches of red, orange and yellow? I could draw the shading on the walkie as shapes, like the colors in the fire, rather than using hatchmarks. I'm not sure how much that might affect the general....sort of personality of the image. But it's a thought.

Yeah, it's not an embroidered patch. It's a picture of the "patch" screen printed on a shirt. Fire department uses the term "patch" as a name for their station's logo. My station just happens to be the comm center.

My idea for this is to be used for both applications....an actual embroidered patch and an image to be printed onto a shirt. I have no problem with removing some of the lines of shading. I wouldn't expect the shop to be able to create a patch with all those lines on it. If it's possible, could you do 2 different traces?

Obviously, the lines on the front of the radio are the actual speaker. The lines on the side of the radio and under the hat are just simply for detail, which I'm sure can be achieved with a darker shade of gray or red, respectively.

Also, I was looking at the image again. Could you play with the idea of putting a circle around the actual cross and have "Orange County Fire Rescue" on the top of the circle and "Orange County, FL" on the bottom? I noticed that all the old patch has is "OCFRD" and if you don't know the acronym you have no clue who/where we are. The whole idea of a patch is to be able to identify who you're with, and even do some trading when you go on vacation to other cities.

Again, Brynn, this is absolutely HUGE for you to help me with this project. I truly appreciate it!

Oh, I see. When I was in college, I got a degree in Forestry. Every spring we would have a conclave (similar to lumberjack competition, only including technical stuff too). The forestry clubs of each college had a t-shirt, and we would all trade t-shirts at the conclave.

I might be able to make 2 versions, I'm not sure yet. I'll make one true to the photo. But if I can't do a smaller on for the patch, when you take the image to the shoulder patch place, they'll probably still be able to use it. They'll probably just inform you that all the detail won't show. Although they may want you to pay for them to make it smaller. I'll try. It will just take a little longer.

I'm a little lost on "circle around the cross". Do you mean the background sort of shield shape that has 4 parts, with Fire, Rescue and Communications on 3 of the parts? You want that to be a circle rather than the shield? Technically I think it would have to be an ellipse. Do you still want the 4 parts? Do you still want those words?

It would be no problem to substitute different text. So the new text, you're talking about putting on the new ellipse? To substitute for Fire, Rescue, etc.? I guess fire and rescue is pretty well a given for a fire department, and not necessarily needed.

OH! Or do you mean keep everything, but just put a larger ellipse around everything, to contain the indentifying text? Because to substitute the ellipse for the shield, the ellipse would still need to be bigger. Because the current content almost covers up the shield at the top anyway.

I wish I had drawing skills. Tracing an existing image, is easy with Inkscape. But that fire hat looks like a red cowboy hat, lol. I would love to be able to make it look more like a traditional fire helmet. I'll draw it true to the image, but if I can manage to make a more convincing one, I'll show it to you.

Back to the canvas

autotrace (after gimp touchup)

http://www.mediafire.com/?p5lpc6kbhcny0q3

new version http://www.mediafire.com/?xxla8bhzi2e80fl

brynn wrote:Hhm, that does not look like a trace from Inkscape, Maestral. Did you use the ROIT Systems engine, or another?

It was done with VectorMagic, but as I mentioned before... I did a bunch of tracing with it and then finished drawings in Inkscape. It was my MO or workflow for yesterday and since I`m pretty much sure it could be done with Trace bitmap tool (with some fine tuning and tryouts) I just used the one which was already set. Shall I avoid similar stuff on this forum? All in all, it was just an offered help/assistance.

Maestral, I appreciate the effort you put into the trace.

Brynn - You're right on the 2nd part. I'm looking for a larger ellipse around the existing image and having the text on top (Orange County Fire Rescue) and on the bottom (Orange County, FL). To be quite honest, just have some fun with it. Make as many as you like. It doesn't have to be this EXACT image, use it more as a guide/inspiration.

v1nce - I'm at work right now but will check it out when I get home.


Thanks guys!

Maestral wrote:Shall I avoid similar stuff on this forum? All in all, it was just an offered help/assistance.

No, no problem at all Maestral. I was just curious. I know there are other tracers out there, but only know specifically about 2. I'm not familiar with VectorMagic, so maybe I'll look it up. Thanks for the info

v1nce - that trace is awesome!!!! I'm going to play around with it a little bit. It's great!

Wow, that did turn out pretty good, v1nce! There still are details that don't show up, such as on the hands/gloves. Plus it still contains the distortions due to being a photo of a fabric with some folds.

Well, even if you may end up using that one, I have a couple of questions. On the firehat, there's like.....I don't know, it looks like sort of a plate in the front of it, containing the yellow symbol on a black and white background. What is the white part? Should it be symmetrical, or is it shaped just like it should be, and I just don't recognize it?

Also, for screen printing, I've heard members say that their printer wants a separate layer for each color. Would you need that as well? Often when I work (which is always just for my own enjoyment, and so far, never for screen printing) when I have one object on top of another, I often don't bother trying to have the edge where 2 objects meet identical. If there's no transparency, I just let the top object cover the border, so I don't spend a lot of time making that single border twice, once for each object. But I'm thinking for screen printing, it would be much like the top object was partially transparent. I'm thinking I would need to make the same border twice, once for each object. Even if you don't use my drawing, that question could come up in the forum, so it's all a learning experience

Brynn, that's a mounting plate. On the real helmets this actually contains the firefighter's unit number so they're easily identified. On the image, the plate has the maltese cross on it just as a symbol. I think it looks ok the way it is in the picture. I'm pretty sure that's how it was drawn.

I'm just as green to screen printing as you are so I have no idea, but I'm going to see what I can find out. Whatever makes your life easier is fine. I think my main goal is to have this printed large on the back of the shirt and a small logo to be placed on the upper left chest of the shirt. I'll probably make decals out of them too. Again, whatever you think will make it look good AND is not a pain in the butt for you.

It's just that the white part of that plate (which may be meant as a reflection) is asymetrical. I'll either leave as is, or maybe make it symmetrical. Meanwhile, when you said maltese cross, I had a whole other idea what it is, so I did a search. (I just like learning new things ) It seems the fire/rescue industry uses a certain variety of it, that's just what is in the image, that I was calling a shield shape. Anyway, I found this image (which I hope I can simply paste in here, without having to save and upload) and I wonder if the extra circle (compared to your patch) would work for the extra identifying text that you wanted to add?

http://th120.photobucket.com/albums/o18 ... _cross.gif

Ok, well it pasted in the link, so that should work just as well

Ok, except for the extra circle for the extra text, I'm very closed to being finished. I just need to know about the overlapping issue. Can objects be stacked on top of each other (to hide their borders), or do I need to make distinct borders between each color (for the screenprinting?

Maybe I'll start on the tiny version for the shoulder patch, while I'm waiting for that info. No worries, I'm having fun

Ok, here's a PNG of the finished original design, at the original size. I'm still working on adding the extra ellipse and text. As you see, I sort of reworked the fire. I just thought for a fire department, the fire on the original looks kind of wimpy. So there's a raging inferno, lol! I had to color it differently, because Inkscape doesn't have the kind of tool that was probably used for the original. I can exactly duplicate the original fire, if you prefer it.

Also, the radio guy's right hand (on our left) is different. I also have the original hand (on a hidden layer) (whose fingers had been cut off in the original, for some reason) if you prefer it. But I redid the hand to show the fingers so it looks like the radio guy is about to step out of the frame. I never was able to redo the hat, but the original hat did start to grow on me.

I took colors directly from the photo. Since much of the photo of the original lies in shadow, I think we may need to lighten up the gray color a bit. And the "911" seems a little too dark to me too. But it's up to you. The shield shape, which I've now learned is a maltese cross, was drawn from scratch, in order to make it completely symmetrical.

(I don't know why ImageShack shows transparency as black, but I can make the background opaque white, if it would be easier to see the image.)



Oh, I see there was a glitch in the PNG export. The slots on the front of the radio are actually entirely filled in. It seems like these export bitmap anomalies and artifacts, have become more frequent lately. But anyway, that won't show up in the SVG that you would take to the printer. Oh, it also left out the screw on the side of the radio. But it will show up in the SVG.

Well, since ImageShack is showing this on a black background, I'm wondering if it might look good to make the maltese cross black with white letters? I don't know, I'm just thinking outloud

Anyway, I'll add the extra ellipse and text. We probably will need to make the original a little bit smaller, to make room for the new stuff, and still fit on a shirt. But it should work well, and then I'll upload the SVG file for you. I can't start on a small version for the shoulder patch right away. But I can do it later, like in June

THIS IS AWESOME BRYNN!!! I can't believe how well this turned out! I honestly never noticed the fire until now. Everything looks great. The color is good too. IMO, nothing is too dark. And i know I would've never been able to draw the cross from scratch. Thats amazing. Please send me the SVG. I want to see if I can add the ellipse around it myself, but please don't let me stop you from tinkering with this more. I'm actually wanting to see what else you may do with it. Thanks sooooo much for this. Everyone is going to love it!

Can't wait for the patch either! Would I possibly be able to resize the SVG file or would the proportions be thrown off?

Oh, ok!
I haven't done anything else since posting that, because I wasn't sure if you might have found another solution. Did you see the example I posted a link to, a few messages ago? I really like how they put the circle kind of weaved through the cross. I'm not sure if it will work, but I thought I'd play with it.

Have you found out whether you'll need each color on its own layer? The document already has layers, but they're arranged by object, rather than by color. Or I guess you could rearrange the layers. I did eliminate most of the overlapping areas, but not all. So if you find out about that part, I can fix those. I can do the layers too, if you like.

I've got your email address. I deleted it from your message, to prevent you getting spam

Edit
Sorry, I forgot to answer your question about scaling. You certainly can scale it yourself, and keep it on proportion, without any trouble. (Depending on how you scale it -- using the control bar, be sure to click the lock icon (locks proportions) -- or using Transform dialog, check the box for proportions.) The problem with using the same image for the shoulder patch, is that some things will become too small to be embroiderable (?). I was going to change all the hatchmark shading to solid areas of color.

But it's possible the patch making place would be able to use the shirt logo, and fix those things themselves. I just don't know a lot about that, and it probably partially depends on which company you use. I suspect that a business which typically supplies fire departements, would probably be able to do it. But again, I don't know a lot about it. I haven't started on the small version yet. But if it looks like you'll need one, I'd be glad to do it.

Anyway, I've sent 2 files (separately). Let me know if they can use the shirt file to make the shoulder patch. If not, I'll be glad to do a smaller version. Also glad to fix anything in the first files

I think with the objects on their own layer will be fine. I was actually showing it to some people on my shift and I think the general consensus is that I need to work "Orange County" into the existing patch, possibly on the top part of the cross. I was wondering if the design in the middle of the cross can be resized to allow for text in the top section of the cross. If the layers are in groups, is it easy to just make the groups active and resize them that way? I'm afraid to play with it and may just leave it to the pro I'm thinking about giving it a go just to see what I can do.

I saw what you were talking about in the link from the previous post and I like it, but I don't know if it would work with this patch. Also, I didn't get the files you sent. I'll PM you my email address again and not put it in here.

Could the messages be caught in a spam folder? I've sent another.

Let me know how you like the one with the extra text. I can scale it smaller, I just would need to know what size. Or I could tell you how.