[soved] How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

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Grobe
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[soved] How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby Grobe » Fri Jul 08, 2011 2:09 am

Hi.

I want to draw a very simple knot.
I have used the caligraphy tool to make a knot, but I want some parts of the pat to get behind.

To get this, I select two nodes on top of the first knot and then using the "Break path at selected nodes". And then I do "Ctrl+Shift+K" to break apart the paths. I get a tiny glitch where the path is broken, but away from that I get a nice result.

The problem arrives when I trying to do the same a second time on one of the resulting paths. When I trying that it become just a mess.

What can I do to make a complete knot?
Last edited by Grobe on Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
:lol:

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flamingolady
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby flamingolady » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:03 am

It would really help to see it, can you upload the file?
I suggest duplicating the original object (always keep a copy of the original on a hidden layer, just in case you need it), anyway, each time you break the path, do it from the original, so the ends will match up. Sometimes when breaking the path, you will need to add additional nodes, and move them really close to the points that you break the path, so it doesn't become a mess, otherwise you will sometimes need to drag the node at the broken path to fill in the gaps,whereas there's less dragging the nodes if you have extra nodes directly next to the originals. (hope that makes sense).
Also, sometimes, I find that I keep the original intact, then break nodes a few times, and I'll add a piece on top of the original and also under it, so probably to make a knot, it will require you drawing 3 or more pieces that you put together and then group like a jig saw puzzle.
It's hard to know exactly what to tell you without seeing the knot.

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Grobe
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File uploaded now

Postby Grobe » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:21 am

Ah, I didn't noticed there was no uploaded file. Sorry for that. Here is the file:
Attachments
breakingPathHere.svg
(6.09 KiB) Downloaded 270 times
:lol:

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brynn
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby brynn » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:26 am

Oh my goodness, Grobe, I just love to see your name in the topic index, because you always ask such interesting questions, and I know I will learn something new, almost every time!

Regarding the image going wacky when you break the path, one trick that I use is to temporarily remove the fill. That way I can deal with the path alone and not get confused by the fill, when it tries to respect the broken paths. Then once I get the path put back together in its new configuration, I put the fill back.

Also, I wanted to direct your attention to the LPE Knot (Path Effects Editor > Knot) if you don't already know about it. What it does, is automatically break the path at the proper places for you. I don't know if it can be done on calligraphic paths.....?? But at the moment, I can't think of any reason it wouldn't. But if you're not already familiar, give it a try :D

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Grobe
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby Grobe » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:48 am

Hi.

Thanks for loving my questions. I love to get them solved :D

But this one seems to be a hard nut to crack. In the uploaded file, it clear that it isn't working I'm afraid.
I tested your suggestionto set no fill. I also tried to adjust the angles (what couple of nodes to choose for cutting path). But no luck

I also noticed that the problem segment is actually two separate objects after I've cut the path second time. Because of that I did a combine path on them. Still no luck.

[edit]
I tried the knot effect in Path Effect Editor. There is two major problems:
1 - The object turns invisible. It shows up after I diabled the effeft (see atached picture)
2 - Inkscape spend long time rendering. Testing many combinations in effect setting box would take forever.

I add a png picture that show it looks on my screen. I don't know if different numbers on "Fixed width" and "Switcher size" would help.

[edit2]
Damn. I got the "Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached." when I try to upload one more file.

I have four files at total in one zipped file. Why can't I upload it? It doesn't make any sense.
Well, I can only hope other readers does understand, but I don't expect it.
:lol:

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brynn
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby brynn » Fri Jul 08, 2011 3:20 pm

Sorry about the file attachment limitation. I've reported to microUgly, whom I hope can bump it up. Yours is the 2nd report about that today.

I had not looked at your file when I posted my last reply. But now I will look at it in detail, and hopefully can find something useful.

EDIT
Ok, I think I see what's going wrong. When you do Break Apart, it not only breaks the "rope" into 2 pieces (like cutting with scissors), it also breaks the new rope segment into 2 paths.

In the first place where you broke the rope, the 2 paths are connected at the end of the rope. But here you are in the middle of the rope, where the "top path" and "bottom path" are not connected, Inkscape thinks it should break those apart as well, because they are not naturally connected like at the end of the rope. I hope that makes sense.

So what you need to do after Break Apart, is select the "top" and "bottom" and Combine back together (but don't combine with the first rope segment). Then I think you should be able to continue as before.

I'll show you how I usually handle knot type of situations by doing it on your file attachment. Then I'll try to upload it. Even though we had another report earlier today about reaching the attachment quota, I was able to upload an attachment. So I'm not sure what's going on. But I do want to test that further, and this will be a good chance :D

I'll be back shortly to try to upload that file.

EDIT
Ok, so no, I can't upload either. I think this is a per forum quota, because the other message where the member received the quota error was in Tricks and Tuts, and apparently just coincidentally the limit for both forums had been reached on the same day. The file I managed to upload was not in either of these forums. Hhhmm, but you said you couldn't upload in the Feedback forum either......weird. Well the forum where I was successful in attching a file was the Moderators forum, which is not visible for regular members. Maybe it somehow carries a unique quota????

EDIT #2
I've uploaded my file to imgh.us, with link posted in new reply below....

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druban
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby druban » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:06 pm

Hi Grobe, there is no automatic way to what you want to do. It is going to be a process of:

1. Add 2 nodes with the node tool at break points. Be careful that you are actually getting them on the segments you want them on!

2. Select these 2 nodes and break the path at these points.
This will leave you with 2 nodes selected and 2 unselected but they will almost certainly not be the right pair - just drag a little (and then undo) to see what I mean... So select the right nodes and join them. Do the same for the other pair. Joining them allows you to curve the segments to match, so no strokes peek out from under anything.

3. Now you have to break the paths apart (path menu). Please note: this is not the same as breaking the path at a node! Your previous actions resulted in a path made up of two sub-paths. We need these sub-paths to actually become separate entities.

4. Now adjust the z order of the paths to bring one on top and complete the illusion of a single path overlapping itself.

Repeat these 4 steps for each crossing. Sorry :D .

I made a (fixed example of the svg you uploaded to show you how I did it, and a png too - a grand total of 37KB - but - you guessed it, "the board attachment quota has been reached!!!" You'll just have to follow my crystal clear instructions. :D

Later:

Image

http://imgh.us/Broken_Paths.svgz

Off topic:
Brynn, I was unable to upload SVG to the imgh site, "Files of type plain/text not allowed, this site isfor images only." How did you do it?
Last edited by druban on Sat Jul 09, 2011 1:49 am, edited 4 times in total.
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brynn
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby brynn » Fri Jul 08, 2011 7:04 pm

Ok here, I was able to upload the SVG to imgh.us (http://www.imgh.us/index.php). Here's a link to the SVG:

http://imgh.us/grobes-break-path.svg

Basically I did something similar to druban :D

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druban
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby druban » Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:27 am

Here's an alternate way to do this using the pattern on path extension - not the path effect.
Image
Attachments
KnotPatPathsm.svg
(12.53 KiB) Downloaded 223 times
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microUgly
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby microUgly » Sat Jul 09, 2011 10:19 am

Off topic:
Grobe wrote:Damn. I got the "Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached." when I try to upload one more file.

There is a 50MB quota, at which point you'll need to delete some of you files if you wish to add more. Files also need to be smaller than 256 KB. There are plenty of sites that will host your images and files without a quota. Refer to viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7 for some suggested sites.

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brynn
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby brynn » Sun Jul 10, 2011 12:48 am

Off topic:
druban -- Well that's weird! I don't know why you received that error uploading the SVG to imgh.us. I didn't do anything special, it was a straight forward upload. Could you have accidentally selected the wrong file maybe?
Last edited by microUgly on Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Corrected BBCode

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microUgly
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby microUgly » Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:24 am

Off topic:
microUgly wrote:
Grobe wrote:Damn. I got the "Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached." when I try to upload one more file.

There is a 50MB quota, at which point you'll need to delete some of you files if you wish to add more. Files also need to be smaller than 256 KB. There are plenty of sites that will host your images and files without a quota. Refer to viewtopic.php?f=8&t=7 for some suggested sites.
My apologies. The settings were not as I described. You will now be able to use the forum attachment feature again.

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Grobe
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Re: How to making a knot using caligraphy tool

Postby Grobe » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:53 pm

Hi.

Thanks for answering. I'll try out all suggested methods here. I'll update this post as I progress.

Druban:
Alternative method
The method you described in last post (the alternative way) seems very easy. I finally got it working. I had to ungroup (source object was grouped together) the compound object and break it apart (path). Then I had to move the z-order of the parts to make it looks right.

The first method (This post)
There's an easier way to make sure the right pair of nodes is selected. When :tool_node: hovers over a node, then the mouse scroll wheel can be used to select the next node in the path. At the same time, Shift can be pressed down to select several sets of nodes (also with mouse wheel). Then just press Shift and deselect those other nodes (all exept newly created).

I finally got it to work. Another challenge I met was to get rid of new stroke lines. I had to bend those underneath the object on top. I'm trying to upload a sample file. Move the middle segment then you'll see what I mean.

Another comment: I think that if you first break apart paths (path menu) then you can't select nodes that belongs to wrong segment (if that segment is selected first).
Still - it's a lot of job to get the desired results.


Just using simple paths
Just to mention it: To make knots, there is a faster way. Here's what I do:
  1. Draw a simple path that turns around itself (a knot)
  2. Make stroke color red and set width to 5
  3. Break that path apart (node tool) and break path apart (path tool)
  4. Select all segments and duplicate.
  5. Do not unselect. Set color to black and width to 15 (on the duplicate path)
  6. Move the duplicated path to bottom. You now have a path that is mainly black and have a red thread along it.
  7. Now adjust the Z-order of the thick segments to make it look like a knot.
  8. For the thick black path, set cap to "Butt cap" in Fill'n stroke dialog box.
Attachments
verysimpleknot_number4.svg
(4.05 KiB) Downloaded 235 times
Knot3.svg
(13.86 KiB) Downloaded 241 times
:lol:


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