PDF with regular page size but image bleed included?

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Kjohrf
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PDF with regular page size but image bleed included?

Postby Kjohrf » Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:28 am

If I want to send a PDF to a printer with a standard 1/8" bleed, what settings should I use?

In trying to figure out the options, it seems that if I select "Page" for the export area, the PDF doesn't show the image bleeding. If I select "Drawing" it is, but then the page size shows too big in Adobe Reader (AR), and I'm worried it wouldn't print correctly (at a true printer, not a copier shop). And I believe there are bugs reported with Drawing mode PDF output. Curiously, you can select both options, but I think this just acts like you had set "Drawing".

AR has an "Overprint Preview" option on Preferences/General Display, but changing it doesn't seem to do anything.

Has anyone done real-world printer (e. g., offset) and knows the proper procedures? A bleed test SVG file is attached.
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User avatar
Kjohrf
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Re: PDF with regular page size but image bleed included?

Postby Kjohrf » Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:08 am

PS I'm still interested in hearing from other people, but I talked to one printer today. They said to include the bleed size in the PDF page size.

~suv
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Re: PDF with regular page size but image bleed included?

Postby ~suv » Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:20 pm

I really can't answer your question, but - if you don't mind digging through a lengthy discussion - Bug #168627 in Inkscape: “RFE: 'export selection' to vector formats (PDF, eps,...)” in part touches this issue, as in
Molumen wrote:The behaviour you described here is the normal behaviour for the PDF and
EPS formats. The page is the bounding box, objects can be placed inside or
outside of it. Deleting the objects placed outside the bounding box (page)
is not the expected behaviour, as it is very actual in PDFs exported for
printing. In certain cases some specific marks (or comments) can be placed
outside of the bounding box (which is then the "clean" printed area) but
can be still used by the printer. A good example is the so called "slug"
area, placed outside the bounding box, and even outside the bleed area.

Another use of objects placed outside the page are keywords. Some
cataloging/indexing systems place tags into exported PDF files outside of
the bounding box so they are not visible to readers/viewers, but still can
be found/indexed by these systems thanks to these "invisible" portions of
texts/tags/keywords.

I'd say that it is not a bug, and should be transformed into a feature
request, something like a PDF export settings window where you can select
between export possibilities (…)

(…)
JiHO wrote:> It has a export area is page option for PDF (File->Save as...). Please
> test.

The "problem" stays the same as before. The export area is just
clipped to the page but the objects out of the page are still present
in the file (which was actually already the way things were working
before). To test that you can create a document with an object outside
of the page, save it as PDF and:
- view it with a PDF viewer: you'll only see the blank page
- re-open it with Inkscape: you'll see the blank page and the object
outside of the page

That said I am not sure this is a bug. This is actually the way PDF
works: there are several boxes: media box, crop box, art box etc.
which contain objects. You usually only see the crop box, which
corresponds to the physical page, but objects outside of the page can
be used for other purposes: cropping marks, color scales etc. So they
need to stay there.
What Inkscape would need is a way to define theses boxes. But I don't
think they have an equivalent in SVG, or maybe in SVG print but
Inkscape is currently not focused on that

From that discussion I conclude
  1. Inkscape should implement PDF export options for the various boxes that are offered by the PDF specification
  2. even without implementing that RFE in Inkscape, printer software could potentially deal with elements (in PDFs created by Inkscape) that exceed the crop box and adjust for an implicit bleed margin


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