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Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong.
I have been trying for hours to create this re attached image to no avail. My approach has been to type in the numbers, Duplicate, then did a Dynamic offset, & then drag to get background. I then tried node editing but I cannot get the clean edges around the numbers, re: attached svg file. Can you please tell me what it is that I am not doing.
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- Race Car Number.svg
- (3.45 KiB) Downloaded 221 times
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- Race Car number.jpg (17.98 KiB) Viewed 4054 times
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
As you've discovered, Dynamic Offset rounds sharp corners. It is possible to node edit back to sharpness (see this thread for a start: viewtopic.php?f=22&t=12415) but it may not be worth the effort.
In this case I would stack two or three copies of the text on top of each other, with different stroke widths, which will give you something approximately the same. If you will need to edit the text later then you can get close to this effect with clones: set the stroke on the original text to "Unset", then set it to the required thickness and colour on each clone that you stack beneath the original. That way you can edit the original text and the clones will also change. Stacking text won't give you the transparent keyline of the original
To really get an exact match you'll need to work with paths, but I would still start in the same manner, get it close, then use Path > Stroke to Path to give you some sharp-cornered paths as a foundation. There will still be some node editing required though. The boolean tools would then let you subtract one path from another to give you the transparent keyline.
You might also want to bring your numbers a little closer together for best effect: put the text cursor between them and hold ALT while pressing the left arrow on your keyboard.
Attached is a version which uses stacked clones with an unset stroke - so no transparency, but if you can make the stroke on the middle text the same colour as the background the effect should be similar. This is "live" in that you can edit the text on the top.
In this case I would stack two or three copies of the text on top of each other, with different stroke widths, which will give you something approximately the same. If you will need to edit the text later then you can get close to this effect with clones: set the stroke on the original text to "Unset", then set it to the required thickness and colour on each clone that you stack beneath the original. That way you can edit the original text and the clones will also change. Stacking text won't give you the transparent keyline of the original
To really get an exact match you'll need to work with paths, but I would still start in the same manner, get it close, then use Path > Stroke to Path to give you some sharp-cornered paths as a foundation. There will still be some node editing required though. The boolean tools would then let you subtract one path from another to give you the transparent keyline.
You might also want to bring your numbers a little closer together for best effect: put the text cursor between them and hold ALT while pressing the left arrow on your keyboard.
Attached is a version which uses stacked clones with an unset stroke - so no transparency, but if you can make the stroke on the middle text the same colour as the background the effect should be similar. This is "live" in that you can edit the text on the top.
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- Race Car Number.svg
- (5.82 KiB) Downloaded 218 times
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
Aaahh....well, I avoided answering this earlier, because I'm sure there is a quicker and easier way than what I'm thinking! So someone else may well come along with a better idea.
I would approach just like you have started. You will have to do some node editing, but there are some tricks I use to keep the lines clean and straight. First trick -- don't try to change the big round curve around the bottom right part of the 5. Just look at the corners. I'll make some screenshots....
Second, make some guidelines like these, to show you where to put nodes for the sharp corners. You can use snapping for both the guide intersections, and to make sure the lines stay straight vertically and horizontally, where appropriate.
And third, where there are smooth nodes at the corners, change those to cusp nodes. You may also have to retract some node handles, or click "Make selected segments lines", or click cusp node button twice. All of those will make perfectly straight segments, although some are better in certain circumstances, which you will learn by trial and error which ones suit your workflow better.
Note that that will only work if you're planning to keep the numbers like in your SVG file. The numbers in your photo appear to be italic. So if you will need italic, it might be too much trouble to make guidelines at the proper angle. It can definitely be done with Inkscape (place guidelines at any angle), but I'm still thinking there might be a better way to approach this.
One more note. I'm not sure why the bottom of the five is so much different from the bottom of the 1.
Edit
Ah, Xav, just one of those I was thinking would have a better idea. AND you posted while I was typing
I would approach just like you have started. You will have to do some node editing, but there are some tricks I use to keep the lines clean and straight. First trick -- don't try to change the big round curve around the bottom right part of the 5. Just look at the corners. I'll make some screenshots....
Second, make some guidelines like these, to show you where to put nodes for the sharp corners. You can use snapping for both the guide intersections, and to make sure the lines stay straight vertically and horizontally, where appropriate.
And third, where there are smooth nodes at the corners, change those to cusp nodes. You may also have to retract some node handles, or click "Make selected segments lines", or click cusp node button twice. All of those will make perfectly straight segments, although some are better in certain circumstances, which you will learn by trial and error which ones suit your workflow better.
Note that that will only work if you're planning to keep the numbers like in your SVG file. The numbers in your photo appear to be italic. So if you will need italic, it might be too much trouble to make guidelines at the proper angle. It can definitely be done with Inkscape (place guidelines at any angle), but I'm still thinking there might be a better way to approach this.
One more note. I'm not sure why the bottom of the five is so much different from the bottom of the 1.
Edit
Ah, Xav, just one of those I was thinking would have a better idea. AND you posted while I was typing
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Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
Hi, this question seems to be very similar to one in the recent past! Maybe the answer will work for you, I think it has been covered by other responses but i remembered that I made a graphic explanation a few weeks ago, so I'm posting the link to it.http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=12332#p46103
The methods shown by Xav and ~suv, below, are about as brilliant in their use of Inkscape's features as they come! If you want to edit your text later they are totally the way to go! Not all production methods can handle masks, clones and such. If you have to output the bare minimum in complexity here is a lower tech alternative.
Please note that I have shown the paths spread out for clarity, but in actual use you will be duplicating and modifying the paths right on top of ech other so no alignment will ever be necessary!
The methods shown by Xav and ~suv, below, are about as brilliant in their use of Inkscape's features as they come! If you want to edit your text later they are totally the way to go! Not all production methods can handle masks, clones and such. If you have to output the bare minimum in complexity here is a lower tech alternative.
Please note that I have shown the paths spread out for clarity, but in actual use you will be duplicating and modifying the paths right on top of ech other so no alignment will ever be necessary!
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- rect3375.png (101.43 KiB) Viewed 3968 times
Last edited by druban on Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Your mind is what you think it is.
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
If you group the text and its two clones, then clone the group, you can use that clone as mask on a colored rectangle which makes the black parts transparent. The text (inside the original group) can still be edited as text, and the mask will live-update, too:Xav wrote:Attached is a version which uses stacked clones with an unset stroke - so no transparency, but if you can make the stroke on the middle text the same colour as the background the effect should be similar. This is "live" in that you can edit the text on the top.
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- nihon94-Race Car Number-Xav-cloned-as-mask.png (186.32 KiB) Viewed 3979 times
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- nihon94-Race Car Number-Xav-cloned-as-mask-edited.png (106.01 KiB) Viewed 3979 times
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
Very nice ~suv
I had considered going down the clipping or masking route, but decided to stop where I did unless the OP came back to say that the transparency was important - now I wish I'd carried on a little further
I had considered going down the clipping or masking route, but decided to stop where I did unless the OP came back to say that the transparency was important - now I wish I'd carried on a little further
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
Thank you very much for all the contributions, this is very exciting, this exercise really proves the point that on the face of it things may only look easy. However & most importantly please accept my apologies for my late response, it is not my intention to treat Xav or anyone in abeyance. To begin with, being a novice I have been struggling with Xav's contribution but when I fully understand the processes involve I hope to sail through. Now that I have druban's contribution, I have not been able to acheive the third stage in the process that is the large black background i.e. after doing the "stroke to path, object to path & union.BTW how would you know which path you are modifying (at least for anovice like me) if you are working right on top of each other?
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
Whow! I am finally getting somewhere with this, I have been able to acheive let's call it the 3rd stage of druban's contribution ( after successful completion I will revisit Xav's contribution) however I keep hitting a snag after applying a stoke to the path on the stroked text re: attached image & cannot seem to get a union of the two. I have also observed that when an object to path is done instead on the stroked text it appears to be ok, am I missing a step out. Thanks for reading.
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- after stroke to path.svg
- (5.18 KiB) Downloaded 232 times
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
Hi Kento. Make sure you are not trying to union a group with a path. In addition I hope you are not putting the objects to be unioned in a group first and then trying to call the union command, it's not necessary and in fact won't work.
To union, select the two path objects (in fact, they can be text objects or a mixture of both), then go to path menu >union.
A small problem in the file you sent was that the stroke applied to the text before doing the stroke to path appears to have had a cap style and a broken path, at least that's my interpretation of the top right corner of the '5'. In the fill and stroke dialog under the stroke style tab you will find options for square butt round etc. try setting it to butt. Although your character should not have a break in it!
Good luck!
To union, select the two path objects (in fact, they can be text objects or a mixture of both), then go to path menu >union.
A small problem in the file you sent was that the stroke applied to the text before doing the stroke to path appears to have had a cap style and a broken path, at least that's my interpretation of the top right corner of the '5'. In the fill and stroke dialog under the stroke style tab you will find options for square butt round etc. try setting it to butt. Although your character should not have a break in it!
Good luck!
Last edited by druban on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your mind is what you think it is.
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
When dissecting my version, it's just three elements on top of each other - the text on top with an unset stroke, and two clones beneath with different strokes set. Separate the three bits out and it should be fairly clear what's happening.
~suv's improvement on my approach goes a step further by using a clone of the black-and-white version I created as a mask, which gives you the transparency of the original whilst still remaining editable. It may be a step too far if you're not very familiar with masks though (but may be a good opportunity to learn).
~suv's improvement on my approach goes a step further by using a clone of the black-and-white version I created as a mask, which gives you the transparency of the original whilst still remaining editable. It may be a step too far if you're not very familiar with masks though (but may be a good opportunity to learn).
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
Xav, firstly thank you for this contribution. My approach to dealing and putting into practise the invaluable contributions offered by this forum is one of comprehension & application. Hence when I get contributions I try to apply them at once, I guess this is as a result of trying to complete the task at hand , then read on the necessary areas that I may not be familiar with. However when I get lost in my application or things do not work out, I then go into research mode & of course trial & error but the aim is to comprehend the instructions offered. So please don't worry about your contributions being too far ahead of me as it then becomes an assignment like school days. Every contribution is treated as an good opportunity to learn although burning the midnight oil for success can be very taxing at times. Thanks again.
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
Folks, I think I have finally found success, subject to your comments of the attached file. I have digested all you have contributed did a lot of reading & discovered lots of new things. It is my belief that the challenges this exercise presented was worth the many long nights & hours spent. I now know the difference between for example "combining & a union & their applications etc. hence I was able to complete this exercise. Right now I am about to tackle the other methods which were offered e.g by xav & suv where cloning is being used . Can some please examine & comment on the attached file re the approach, as I would like to know that I approached every correctly. Thanks to all.
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- Finally success.svg
- (5.36 KiB) Downloaded 200 times
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
It looks good to me. I'll make a few comments, but they're being picky and are just things to consider, rather than any fundamental problems with what you've done:
1) It's all one path now, do doesn't need to be in a group. As a general rule if you ever end up with a group of one object you can ungroup it for the same visual effect.
2) By doing this via path operations you've lost the ability to edit the text. If you want the same effect with different text you'll need to start again. Similarly for changing the thicknesses of the various lines. The approach offered by me and ~suv was live, in that the text was still text and the stroke thicknesses could still be modified. Sometimes it's only possible to achieve an effect by converting to paths, but my usual rule is to try to avoid converting text to paths if at all possible. If this is a genuine one-off then it may not be a problem - but I've had many 'one-offs' that I've later wanted to modify or re-use somewhere else.
3) There are lots of extra nodes in your path that aren't needed - especially in the straight sections. The top of the figure, for example, has 9 nodes where only 2 are needed. You can select the others and use CTRL-DELETE (on straight sections) to remove them without introducing any curvature into the line. For your purposes this may not be necessary, but again I prefer to minimise the number of nodes I have where possible to make it easier to re-use or modify things later.
1) It's all one path now, do doesn't need to be in a group. As a general rule if you ever end up with a group of one object you can ungroup it for the same visual effect.
2) By doing this via path operations you've lost the ability to edit the text. If you want the same effect with different text you'll need to start again. Similarly for changing the thicknesses of the various lines. The approach offered by me and ~suv was live, in that the text was still text and the stroke thicknesses could still be modified. Sometimes it's only possible to achieve an effect by converting to paths, but my usual rule is to try to avoid converting text to paths if at all possible. If this is a genuine one-off then it may not be a problem - but I've had many 'one-offs' that I've later wanted to modify or re-use somewhere else.
3) There are lots of extra nodes in your path that aren't needed - especially in the straight sections. The top of the figure, for example, has 9 nodes where only 2 are needed. You can select the others and use CTRL-DELETE (on straight sections) to remove them without introducing any curvature into the line. For your purposes this may not be necessary, but again I prefer to minimise the number of nodes I have where possible to make it easier to re-use or modify things later.
Re: Cannot get nice clean lines please tell me what is wrong
Tanks again xav for your kind advise. Yes I have run into problems where I converted text to path & lost the ability to edit & that was frustrating. Your obesrvation re: the extra nodes are also well received. Your suggestions & advise are noted & will be put into pratice. Take care & thanks for your analysis & comments.