Hi,
I have some general questions/concerns...

I'm aware being more specific would be of use here, however right now I'm curious if anyone is experiencing these same symptoms.
If so, then maybe we could compare notes/details. Also, I know posting a file would be helpful, however I can't do so. But shortly I can make some test/forum appropriate files that mimic some of the effects I'm talking about...
Anyway...any help would be appreciated.

I'm using windows, 64 bit, newest inkscape .91
I'm working with a rather large file (112,000 KB) (for a display that's 12 by 10 feet) and that could be the main contributing factor to the problems, which are:

1. inkscape suddenly just closes. there isn't any warning, no slowing down, just suddenly the entire program and any open files are closed. When that happens, the automatic save doesn't save the file. Because of the random shutting down, I find myself saving my work CONSTANTLY (which is a problem because....)

2. Saving takes nearly two minutes...the program actually says "inkscape not responding." While that's happening I do something else (like check email) and then come back.

3. when saving to PDF, pattern fills (created from a photograph [which was previously manipulated by being clipped]) appear blank. All I see is the stroke of the shape.

4. Also, another weird pattern fill behavior: Let's say there are two inkscape files open. In one I create a shape with a pattern fill (again using a photograph which was already altered via clipping). If I then copy that shape with the pattern and attempt to go to the second file and paste it, inkscape shuts down immediately.

NOTE: problems 3 and 4 don't seem present when I make the pattern from a photo that hasn't been clipped or in any other way manipulated...

5. When working with gradients, I've noticed that sometimes inkscape suddenly shuts off if I try and add too many stops too quickly.

6. Steps to help improve performance? [ I've already tried: hiding all layers I don't need except the current active one. Working in outline mode. Having filers turned off (although I'm using very few). Turning off all programs on my computer, especially gimp or sketchup (both of which I've tried running while inkscape is running. With a large file like this current one, that plan doesn't work so well...)

thanks so much
a

Hi.


Pattern fills, with clipping got rendered badly in previous inkscape versions -even if in svg-, probably you can make an easier solution that should work for pdf-s.
The large file size is caused by embedded raster images I assume.

If you crop the images to the right size in gimp, before embedding, you could lower the filesize and avoid clipping in the pattern.

Other than that, raster images could be linked for a much smaller size -saving as pdf will embed them.


12 by 10 feet is quite large for a print. What is the exact plus from the raster images? Maybe they could be recreated as vectors?


Edit: I see you have used patterns to position raster images inside a clipping object before, maybe the case is similar?
Maybe patterns can be avoided.
Like in that attachment (from here).
Also related: Full Circle #92 - Clip/Group technique.

Hi Lazur
thanks for the thoughts...
I'm not sure what this means: What is the exact plus from the raster images? Maybe they could be recreated as vectors?
Plus? Did you mean what is the exact size from the rasters? (most are rather large photographs so to look ok when printed at such a large scale).
Some might be recreated as vectors...some cannot.

Oh...and it's not really a print...well not exactly. It's a dye sublimation print on fabric.

In terms of editing in gimp first, yes, that would be a better solution. I guess I'm not because I want the flexibility of having the entire image at my disposal.

Oh...and I like patterns because I can easily control the width of the stroke across multiple objects. I can also easily change and adjust what the focus is within that shape without having to reclip each time.

thanks
a

Was asking the "plus" because patterns are made to be repeated, like that sand pattern boundled in the default patterns.
If it was just to add some texture, it may be better avoided.


After your clarify I still see that can be covered by clipping, just as presented in that file above -hlp154-.
Maybe it's a bit more reliable.

No, I don't understand what you mean by "plus.."

But any other tips regarding making the file run more smoothly?
Or why it suddenly shuts down?
thanks
a

Which version of 0.91 did you get, 64-bit or 32-bit? I've had some problems with the 64-bit version, as far a issues like this showing up in a large file. In fact, I had to go back to 32-bit. I never had that problem with 0.48.x, 64-bit, but for some reason, I do, with 0.91. I saw a report about the issue somewhere, and now, I can't find it, or remember where I saw it. (would have been either a bug report or on the mailing list....possible I saw it here, but I don't think so) If anyone knows about that, could you let me know where it is? I'd like to follow the issue, and maybe add my experience.

The only other approach (that I'm aware of) would be to find more RAM. Although you're probably on a laptop, where you can't add more RAM. But if this is something you plan to do more of, or it's part of your job, it might be worth investing in a new machine with loads of RAM.

Hi Brynn,
Thanks for your thoughts...
I'm pretty sure I got 64 bit.
I thought I had to bc my computer is 64 bit...maybe that's wrong?

I never had these problems with the previous version...and I might go back.

A new solution I'm trying is to view everything in grey scale...

Finally, I've discovered another problem...
If you try to import a .tif file into inkscape, it automatically shuts down... thoughts?

thanks
a

Well, I'll be glad to test, but I don't think I have any TIFF files. If you could share one, I'll test.

But aren't TIFF super high....something....quality, resolution? It may be the size of the image that's crashing Inkscape (because you don't have enough RAM). Did you say how much RAM you have? What's the size of the TIFF?

I don't know why the 64-bit of 0.91 is causing these problems. I would like to investigate more, but I just can't remember where I saw that topic posted, and if I start a new bug report, it'll be like the 50th time I've done that, because the Launchpad search is so bad. So I'd like to avoid. And if it was on the mailing list, I'll likely get no answer, if it's a duplicate posting.

On a 64 bit computer, you can use 32-bit programs, but not vice versa. I guess this is Windows? So the 64-bit Inkscape should be installed into Program Files. But the 32-bit Inkscape needs to be installed in Program Files (x86). Laptop makers have to make them to be able to use 32-bit programs, because many, many, many programs just don't make 64-bit versions. This is actually the first time Inkscape has offered a 64-bit version.

Hi.

brynn wrote:Well, I'll be glad to test, but I don't think I have any TIFF files. If you could share one, I'll test.

Here are a link to a 412Mb Tiff Image Galactic Metropolis
Fore some more High-Res images: NASA JPL

The reason the TIFF files are big are they are 16-Bits per pixel giving 65535 different values for each of
the RGB (Red Geen Blue) components, which results in a total of 281474976710656 (Thanks Python!) different
pixel values. A "normal" PNG or JPG file uses 8 bits per pixel for 256 different values per pixel which gives us the "normal" 16 Mill colors (16777216) images.
Even with loss-less compression (think ZIP file) the files ends up quite big, a 256 x 256 TIFF image is 3.15Mb in size while a PNG file would be 1.57Mb (half size).

My Inkscape 0.91 imported the 412Mb TIFF file without crashing (although it took some time to load - even from an SSD disk.)
The image is 16000 by 9000 pixels.

Yikes! I'm almost afraid to try to import such an image. I'm almost sure Inkscape will crash. I only have 4gb of RAM.

But I'll try. Stand by.....

Edit
So far, I can only find JPGs at that link, Ragnar. But I'll keep looking....

Edit #2
Ok, I found it. Took 15 min to download it! I expect Inkscape will crash, but here goes....

Yep, big old crash!

GLib-ERROR**:gmem.c:239:failed to allocate 536870912 bytes
aborting...

Then the 'runtime ended in unexpected way' or something like that. Then 'Inkscape encountered an error and will close now'. 3 error messages!

Hi.

This is interesting. For testing I made a python program to "eat" my memory until I had only 1 Gb free.
Even then the Inkscape would load the 411Mb TIFF image.
Seems like Windows is clever at using the swap space "swapping" idle tasks to disk to free memory.



Decreasing the available memory until Inkscape could not load the image would not crash Inkscape but Inkscape would give an error message saying it could not allocate the memory.

Well, I don't understand any of that, Ragnar. And no need to explain. But how much RAM do you have? I've had the impression that RAM is more involved with Inkscape's performance issues, than CPU. Isn't RAM involved in the swapping (which I vaguely understand)?

Hi.

brynn wrote: But how much RAM do you have?

16 Gb on my laptop which is my "main" machine at the time.

When memory gets "low" the os swaps out a portion of the ram content to disk, then performs the memory allocation that it needs (for inkscape to load your TIFF file)
when the original program need to have it's data in memory the portion is read from disk back to the memory.

16 gb, omg. No wonder you can import it

Hi guys...
Great discussion and explanation on tiff files.
If I convert a tiff to a jpg, is it smaller?

Regarding the 64 vs 32 bit...is there any advantage of one over the other?

I have 8gb of RAM
thanks
a

Hi

The difference between 64 and 32 bit programs is mostly in the way memory is accessed.

For 32 bit programs the largest "chunk" of memory the program can access is 2 to the power of 32 (or 2³²) which gives you 4 294 967 296 combinations of bits.
This equals 4 194 304 Kb = 4096 Mb = 4Gb (divide by 1024 each time to get from one to the next). For each bit you add to the 32 bits you double the amount of memory you can access, with 64bits you can (in theory) access 18.1 exabytes.

For programs needing to operate on large memory sets (eg. digital video, scientific computing and TIFF images ) 64 bit is an advantage. If you have 4Gb or less in your machine you will not notice any difference between a 32 and a 64 bit OS. 64 Bit OS can run 32 bit programs but not vice versa.

For a much better and deeper explanation see here; Wikipedia 64-bit computing. See section 6.1 for the main difference between 32 and 64 bit systems.

Wow, impressive explanation, Ragistan.
Although I didn't understand many of the details you mentioned, it seems that with 8gb of RAM I should keep the 64 bit version. Would you agree?
thanks
A

Hi.

As long as you have the hardware to support 64bit OS go for 64 bit if you have a choice.

Well the problem is that ait seems to be having the same kind of issues that I'm having, with the 64-bit version. When I switched back to 32-bit, all the problems were resolved.

This my extremely simple understanding of how Inkscape uses the computer.

Inkscape uses RAM for drawing the images on the screen. The more ram, the faster it can draw your design. So if you have a very large file, and not enough ram to draw the images, you have to wait, each time you click something, while Inkscape re-draws whatever you asked to to do, with that click. It can't do it instantaneously, or within a second or 2, because it needs more memory to handle it. (I have no idea, and don't want to know how that works.)

Generally, a 32-bit computer is a desktop computer, and generally a 64-bit computer is laptop computer (not always, but usually). A 32-bit computer has 1 "thing" (processor maybe) and a 64-bit computer has 2 of them (32 + 32). "Processor" might not be exactly the right word there.....but that's how I think of it. Then there's something called "cores". I don't know if this is right, but I think of the cores as sections of the processor. Like my processor has 8 cores (didn't realize that's what I was buying ). Real old laptops might just have 2, but I think most these days have at least 4 cores.

SOME things, like displaying images with filters (and maybe some extensions), Inkscape can do better and faster by using the processor(s) and cores. If you have a 64-bit computer, and 64-bit Inkscape, (and you have the right settings in Inkscape Prefs) Inkscape can spread out the job of displaying these filters (which are really raster content inside the vector file) across all the processors and cores, and give you a better quality, and I think a faster drawing of the filter display.

If you have a 64-bit computer and 32-bit Inkscape, Inkscape can only use 1 of your cores. (Because it's made for a computer that only has 1 core.) You can still spread out the load a little, by setting the number of threads in Inks Prefs > Rendering > Number of Threads (this is in a different place in 0.48.x) (however many cores you have, is how many threads you have, but I don't exactly understand the difference). But the load is spread out even better, giving you a better experience with filters, by using 64-bit Inkscape.

The problem here, is that for some reason, you and I, and at least 1 other person (which I still don't remember where I read it)(maybe it was a dream?) are having some problems with the 64-bit version. Or at least that's my guess about what you're experiencing. Maybe it's just the huge file that's causing all the problems, I'm not sure. If that's the case, then you're better off with 64-bit Inkscape.

I've gone back to the 32-bit version, and I'm happy. It probably wouldn't hurt to install the 32-bit version, and do a comparison between how they handle this same file. It should be a noticable improvement, one way or the other. (I did see a little improvement in performance between the 32-bit and 64-bit version of 0.48.5. That version doesn't seem to have these problems that I'm having.)

Anyway good luck

64Bit refers to memory access. Cores are on-chip processors. Portable vs desktop is mostly irrelevant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microproce ... _computers

One of the most commonly cited differences is that the 32-bit architecture has a memory access limit of 4GB (2^32 bytes). This permits you to use about 2.75-3.5GB of RAM after IO reservations are factored in.
On paper, the 64-bit architecture can address 16 exabytes of memory (2^64), or more than 4 billion times that of its precursor. Consumer editions of Windows Vista permit from 8GB to 128GB of physical memory to be accessed, depending on the version. Windows 7 bumps that up to 192GB with the Professional version and above.

http://www.techspot.com/guides/177-wind ... bit-64bit/


Threads are the pathways to the cores. Some cores are hyperthreaded and can process data from two pathways... e.g. a four-core hyperthreaded machine is somewhat like an 8-core machine.

Hi..
I know the threads are at 1...

So...I want to try brynn's suggestion to install the 32 bit version and compare the two.
However, when I try it keeps telling me I already have inkscape, which I do. (Actually, I have two inkscapes, the .90 and the one before that, .48. Somehow I was able to keep both of those).

How can I install both the 32 and 64 bit new inkscapes at the same time?

thanks
a

Hi.

Here's how I keep several versions of Inkscape on my system and how I "switch" between versions:

The most important step is to NOT install to the default location.

For my first install (any version) I install it to C:\Graphics directory. (All subsequent version will not be installed but COPIED)
By installing - shortcut icons on the desktop, associations etc - will be set.

For all subsequent versions I do not install but rather unpack the downloaded ZIP file to c:\temp
(In this example version 0.91.)
a, I then rename my original Inkscape directory in the C:\Graphics\ to Inkscape_048
b, Then I copy the Inkscape directory now in C:\temp to C:\Graphics
I will now have two Inkscape directories in C:\Graphics - Inkscape and Inkscape_048.

(repeat a and b if you want more versions (32 & 64 bit) )

When I now click the Inkscape icon on my desktop version 0.91 will be started as it's in the C:\Graphics\Inkscape directory.

If I want to "switch" to the old 0.48 version I;
Close Inkscape - Important!
Rename the Inkscape folder in C:\Graphics to Inkscape_091
Rename the Inkscape _048 folder in C:\Graphics to Inkscape

Clicking on the Inkscape Icon will now start my 0.48 version.

To make this work smoothless I keep all my Inkscape configuration files, extensions, Icons etc in my USER directory which on my system is in C:\users\Ragnar\Appdata\Roaming\Inkscape

My present C:\Graphics directory - where I have four "different" Inkscape's
C:\Graphics>dir
Volume in drive C is Windows8_OS
Volume Serial Number is FE44-6410
01.03.2015 20:24 <DIR> .
01.03.2015 20:24 <DIR> ..
21.02.2015 13:38 <DIR> Dia
28.01.2015 23:09 <DIR> elefont14
19.02.2015 00:10 <DIR> inkscape
07.02.2015 14:06 <DIR> inkscape - Copy
04.12.2014 06:41 <DIR> inkscape_048
30.01.2015 18:15 <DIR> inkscape_091_64_Python_279
01.03.2015 20:24 <DIR> OpenSCAD
14.11.2014 18:17 <DIR> POV-Ray
16.02.2015 19:14 <DIR> PythonCAD
23.02.2015 14:53 <DIR> STLViewer
14.11.2014 18:16 <DIR> Veusz
10.12.2014 09:56 <DIR> ZebraTRACE
1 File(s) 2 899 bytes
14 Dir(s) 176 022 310 912 bytes free

ait wrote:Hi..
I know the threads are at 1...

So...I want to try brynn's suggestion to install the 32 bit version and compare the two.
However, when I try it keeps telling me I already have inkscape, which I do. (Actually, I have two inkscapes, the .90 and the one before that, .48. Somehow I was able to keep both of those).

How can I install both the 32 and 64 bit new inkscapes at the same time?

thanks
a

Threads are set at 1 by default. If you don't know how many cores you have, you can set it to something like 12 or 16 (which is more than most people have) and Inkscape will determine how many you actually have, and set it itself. At least, that's how it was with version 0.47.

To have more than 1 version of Inkscape installed, you have to choose a different folder for it. If you use the EXE installer, you can change that location as you go through the install wizard. If you download the 7z version, you can extract to any folder you choose (as you go through the extract wizard).

(Yes, normally you should let a program be installed wherever the wizard suggests. But in this case, as long as you stay in Program Files (x86) you'll be fine.)

Here's my Program Files (x86), a screenshot I made for a different topic. Just ignore the right side and the arrows.



Whoa, Ragnar! That is one complicated scheme for switching between versions of Inkscape. I have them all installed, as you see in my screenshot. Then within each directory, I find inkscape.exe, right click > Send to > desktop. That creates a desktop shorcut icon for each individual version. Of course they are all called the same thing, and now that I have 3 or 4 versions, I had to open the Properties of each one, and give them distinct names (because I can't remember which icon goes to which version, with so many). With this way, you don't have to close Inkscape and rename files, just to open a new version of Inkscape. Just double-click the proper icon! (See the 2nd screenshot which I also made for another topic)

Hi.

brynn wrote:I find inkscape.exe, right click > Send to > desktop. That creates a desktop shorcut icon for each individual version.

Thanks brynn! Learned something new, now I have Icons for each version on my desktop.
No need to rename directories anymore - Happy Dance!!