Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2015-10-02

Tavmjong--------------------------- Inkscape Board Meeting --------------------------
tweenkFirst thing we can talk about for the board meeting is Hackfest 2016
parclytaxelOK, pertinent question #1: Inkscape's structure is all over the place, what are we to do?
parclytaxelI mean, the modules and the functions and the others are all a mess.
ScislaCtweenk: Is the goal to have it coincide with LGM again?
tweenkparclytaxel: identify self contained portions of functionality and split them off to be compiled as separate shared libs, I think
parclytaxelBryce, that's a priority
tweenkScislaC: I guess so, this way there's no need to pay 2 separate flight fees if we want the devs to attend LGM as well
Tavmjongparclytaxel: We can discuss that Inskcape structure under "New Business"
tweenkso there were 4 proposals for the hackfest venue - London, Leeds, Warsaw, Phnom Penh
parclytaxelInkscape can be split into two: the computational part (2geom and the filter libs), the parsing part (that converts to and from SVG syntax) and the display part (that shows the results)
FailBitparclytaxel: please hold
Mc-LGM is London, right ?
FailBitalso that's 3
TavmjongBased on the Toronto LGM, I wouldn't put attending as a high priority... although it did lead to getting OpenTYpe into Inkscape.
TavmjongYes, London.
tweenkI guess we should focus on London and Leeds since Phnom Penh is very far from the LGM venue and I will no longer be in Warsaw by that time
TavmjongYou'll be in California?
tweenkTavmjong: yes
TavmjongGreat!
TavmjongI agree London and Leeds are preferred (although I would love to visit Phnom Pehn again).
parclytaxelPhnom is a bad place, Tavm
parclytaxelI'd prefer Amsterdam or something
brycehi
TavmjongI think Leeds is considerably cheaper.
parclytaxelhi bryce
brycesorry, my wife just arrived and distracted me
parclytaxelAnd it's 3am in Singapore
Tavmjonghttp://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2016/
TavmjongLGM is April 15-18
ScislaCtweenk: you going to be working on the Google campus?
parclytaxelOK, so I believe Inkscape is too monolithic and needs some splitting
tweenkScislaC: yes
ScislaCtweenk: when do you head out there?
bryceso thanks all for coming to the Inkscape board meeting, and welcome to martin and kk
parclytaxelBryce, I have identified the three main components: computation, SVG interfacing and display.
tweenkScislaC: start date is 25th November
tweenkScislaC: (IIRC)
ScislaCvery cool
FailBitparclytaxel: hold off on this until the topic is pertinent
brycelike I suggested in the announcement, I figure we can keep the floor open agenda-wise, but keep in mind our focus here with this is more for non-technical matters
bryceTavmjong, you had some agenda items and already said a few words on LGM, why don't you dive into that a bit more
TavmjongI think we should ping Alex and see if he can host a hackfest before or after LGM.
* ScislaC nods
tweenkTavmjong: I agree, hosting it in Leeds will be a lot cheaper.
tweenkand London would be our backup plan then.
TavmjongSo I can take an action to contact Alex.
bryceTavmjong, perfect thanks
parclytaxelTavm, next?
TavmjongWe'll need to start thinking about fund raising.
bryceTavmjong, right
TavmjongIt would be good to have a list of concrete things that resulted from the last hackfest.
bryceif it helps, I recently posted some of the fundraising ideas we discussed last hackfest to wiki.
brycethere's some good ideas there, might thumb through and see if any strike a fancy
TavmjongWe started work on a bunch of things at the hackfest but I don't know how many got carried through.
parclytaxelSo what were the best ideas?
bryceagreed re: list.  You had written up a technical summary, maybe that'd give a starting point?
tweenkTavmjong: I did most of the 2Geom sync on the hackfest
Tavmjongtweenk: good point. I got OpenType features working. How close are we on cmake?
parclytaxel(There are chatters on #derpibooru)
tweenkwhich was very long overdue since the API has changed in several important places
tweenkone thing that as started but not finished was the GTK3 flickering fix
tweenk*was
TavmjongThe one big thing that I don't think has progressed is fixing are render to work with Gtk3.
tweenkAnd now gtkmm 3.x requires C++11 so I guess we are blocked on that?
bryceparclytaxel, really I don't think you could say any were "best" ideas.  A good execution is the important part.
JonCruzwe probably need to update state of things. Keeping in mind that "C++11" is not a single thing, but a collection of differently implemented features
TavmjongI think gtkmm 2.x also requires C++11
bryceTavmjong, cmake went from broken to basic usability
brycestill some odds and ends needed but it's real close
ScislaCtweenk: glib 2.46 also requires C++11
JonCruz*which* C++11 is key
TavmjongI don't think we need C++11 in Fedora 23 but definitely in Fedora 24.
Tavmjong... so we still have a little time.
ScislaCbryce: I use cmake to build trunk at this point
tweenkScislaC: is that glib or glibmm? Isn't glib C-only?
JonCruze.g. we'd need to see which compiler versions can be dropped. gcc 4.6 is most problematic in its C++11
FailBitglibmm is horrifying, honestly
tweenkFailBit: but it's a dependency for gtkmm
FailBit("let's undefine G_DISABLE_DEPRECATED so we can use deprecated features and expect nothing to break!")
bryceTavmjong, getting back to LGM, last time most of the talks were only marginally pertinent to us, and the number of useful contacts we made seemed a bit limited to me.  Do you think London will be a lot better on those measures?  Or if not, would there be a different conference we should consider hooking the hackfest to?
FailBittweenk: gtkmm does the same horrid thing
ScislaCtweenk: it was upstream glib that bumped the compiler requirements from what I recall
TavmjongIf you know of a better conference, I would be open to that. What is the conference in Belgium every year?
parclytaxelSolvay
brycewell I was wondering if a more gnome-oriented conference might give us better connections
tweenkFailBit: ah I remember that issue now...
TavmjongI'm thinking of FOSDEM. Anybody been?
bryceno but heard great things
parclytaxelI can't go to any confs, I'm a Singaporean
TavmjongIt's in January so it would be tight to organize.
tweenkTavmjong: LGM was basically my only exposure to open source conferences
* doctormon (d106bc82@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.209.6.188.130) has joined #inkscape-devel
parclytaxelAnd the confs held in Singapore are big business
doctormonbryce: late!
Mc-never been to any (yet)
Tavmjongparclytaxel: Why not? The do have a big airport in Singapore.
brycedoctormon, better than never!
Tavmjongs/The/They/
doctormonbryce: :-) what's the agenda?
parclytaxel???
brycedoctormon, open agenda.  Current topic LGM/Hackfest for 2016.
Mc-doctormon: we're talking about LGM and the hackfest
parclytaxelSingapore has the (2nd) highest GDP (PPP) per capita in the whole world
FailBitit's also not a great place to live
parclytaxelSo lots of corporations come here, not lots of hippies
Tavmjongbryce: I think LGM has shifted focus some and may have lost its way.
bryceyeah :-/
parclytaxelI'm a hacker in a sea of 5.5 million (mostly) non-hackers
doctormonTavmjong: What's the way and the mis-way?
tweenkTavmjong, bryce can you elaborate?
TavmjongI rather like Singapore... although it was wickedly hot and humid.
brycetweek, it used to be more focused on software development, now seems to be more focused to art and end user use cases
parclytaxelAnd there's a haze right now. PSI peaked at 340 a few days ago.
brycewhich isn't *bad* just different, and maybe not as pertinent to our more immediate needs
ScislaCtweenk: ahhh, I was misremembering, the glib requirement bump was related to OS X version (it just happened to coincide with glibmm's compiler requirement bump)
Tavmjongdoctormon: At the beginning, I think, LGM brought lots of developers together. Last year there didn't seem to be a very large developer presence.
Mc-hearing what users expect from inkscape might be interesting
parclytaxelMc-: It is now PONY driven.
Mc-(or just advertising inkscape to them)
TavmjongSorry, I type too slow.
tweenkbryce: so it's more an user oriented conference, is that right?
parclytaxelBy far the largest and most popular users of Inkscape are bronies.
brycetweenk, at least the 2015 one I'd say artist oriented
FailBitparclytaxel: I disagree
ScislaCIt seems like it's shifting that way.
Mc-cutters/plotters too :P
bryceInkscape got plenty of name drops, admittedly
parclytaxelLiam is a brony, I am a brony and the power stroke is in fact the lroduct of many bronies asking for that feature to be ported from AI to Inkscape
JonCruzparclytaxel: those were just a subset of users asking
FailBitno it actually isn't
FailBitpower stroke was actually designed for calligraphy
bryceTavmjong, Jan feels a bit too soon to get plans in place for a hackfest though
JonCruzcloths makers were another group
Tavmjongbryce: I agree. So LGM may still be our best bet.
bryceTavmjong, what if we arranged to send a couple folks that are ~localish to scout it out this year, and then target it for 2017?
doctormonparclytaxel: I'm a brony too
parclytaxelHave it in Singapore, I want to see your faces.
JonCruzdoes OSCON or OSBridge draw enough inkscapers?
parclytaxelEverfree Northwest is a sure-fire, Jon
JonCruzparclytaxel: LGM avoided the USA due to concerns about the government. Singapore might be similar for many
bryceOSCON is way too expensive
brycedon't know anything about OSBridge
JonCruzbryce: mainly wondering about the people near
doctormonWe could always critical mass LGM and draw up a list of people from other FS projects; developers etc who we'd consider valuable enough to attend for?
JonCruzSCALE is too inkscaper sparse
bryceJonCruz, oh was just about to ask
ScislaCJonCruz: I would disagree
JonCruzScislaC: two does not quite hit critical mass :-)
brycedoctormon, that's a good idea... same could be done for any conference though
ScislaCI think we should do a test for pr pushing that we'll have a booth there for January and see if we get a better turnout.
JonCruzvery true
JonCruzat the least we can do a SCALE mini-Hackfest BoF
brycecool, so the ideas so far:  PR push for SCALE, scouts to FOSDEM, hackfest at LGM.
tweenkby SCALE you mean this? http://www.atscaleconference.com/
TavmjongThe advantage of LGM is it gives us something to focus on... if only a couple of Inkscapers attend, so be it. The real focus for us would be in Leeds.
TavmjongThe LGM timing is good.
ScislaCJonCruz: we still have no clue how much it will affect general attendance with SCALE being in Pasadena
parclytaxelCan I possibly teleconference?
JonCruzhttps://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/14x
brycehttps://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/14x
Tavmjongparclytaxel: I don't understand why you couldn't attend in person. We plan on supporting travel for Inkscape developers.
JonCruzparclytaxel: something to look at for SCALE. In general their IT/Network team is tops.
doctormonTavmjong: Leeds is good for me, I can stay with my mum :-)
parclytaxelFirst of all, I'm only 17
ScislaCWent out to the convention center a couple months ago... we have SO MUCH more space.
parclytaxelMy parents are frugal
parclytaxelAnd then in a year I'll be conscripted into the army
doctormonparclytaxel: I wish you the best; must be a pita
bryceok so Tavmjong you will investigate London/Leeds/LGM/Hackfest a bit more and report back?
parclytaxelI'm also studying organic chemistry
parclytaxelbryce: LLLH. Nice.
Tavmjongparclytaxel: At 17? Not bad.
bryceJonCruz and ScislaC you can mind meld on ways we can improve Inkscaper turnout at SCALE?
Tavmjongbryce: Yes. I'll investigate more.
JonCruzcan also teach tweenk about commuter flights from the bay area :-)
bryceanyone want to look into fosdem?
TavmjongI can also checkout Fosdem.
ScislaCbryce: Yep. I will also see about talking to SCALE's PR team to see if they can lend a hand.
bryceTavmjong, great
bryceok, some good action items there.  Let's move on to a new discussion topic.
parclytaxelYes, Inkscape is spaghetti.
brycewho's got another agenda item for us?
doctormonI'll er, look around :-)
TavmjongWe forgot to welcome new board members... so Welcome!!!
parclytaxelAnd I mean when I was trying to fix some bugs, I had to crane my neck around modules.
ScislaCWelcome!!!
bryceah right, welcome doctormon and tweenk !
parclytaxelEr, me?
TavmjongHow about GSOC 2016 next?
tweenk:)
parclytaxelThen again... the nextagenda topic
bryceok
tweenkTavmjong: yep
Tavmjong------------- GSoC 2016 -------------
TavmjongWe kind of let ourselves down last year. We need a better recruiting web site according to Google, right ScislaC ?
ScislaCThat's part of it...
parclytaxelThe FSA?
doctormonWebsite? I didn't get any details on that requirement :-(
parclytaxelWhat is that about?
ScislaCWe need to have more specific information.
TavmjongI got the feeling that they expected better defined projects with mentor names attached.
ScislaCCorrect
bryceyeah they had some specific requirements about project description and identified mentors per-project and such
brycethey posted a pretty specific set of requirements, we just didn't get all the checkboxes crossed off in time
TavmjongFirst, do we agree we should do GSoC in 2016?
ScislaCI think that instead of the existing bulleted list, I will see about reorganizing into tables.
parclytaxelDon't, Tavm
parclytaxelDon't be controlled by Google
tweenkTavmjong: so far it was a major driver of feature work
TavmjongI agree it's worth pursuing.
tweenkparclytaxel: Google doesn't control what work gets done during GSoC, we and the students do
doctormonIt does get things done
parclytaxelWe should, instead, corral indie devs to come along
bryceto me it depends a lot on if we have admins and mentors available to manage it
bryceit's easy to overlook how much time commitment that end requires
doctormonyeah
parclytaxelSelf-regulation.
TavmjongI am willing to spend some time on the website and help admin (as well as mentor).
TavmjongAnybody else?
ScislaCI'm willing to Admin again
bryceScislaC, are you still able and willing to lead us?
ScislaCyep
parclytaxelI've always liked how systems arise naturally without supervision from small things.
tweenkIt's also important to prepare the stage, e.g. it's much easier for students to work on something that's reasonably well documented
Tavmjongtweenk: I definitely agree!
JonCruzScislaC: and get me in as backup admin right away
doctormonI'm pretty much the website man, we got a project app if that's of help
parclytaxelSo we may, for example with our own dev "apprenticeship", have two or three devs
tweenkTamvjong: I can mentor, but right now I have no idea how much free time I'll have
TavmjongOK, so ScislaC, JonCruz, and I can tackle getting us ready.
brycecool
tweenkTavmjong: so I would be able to make a commitment in ~January I think
parclytaxelAnd when they get lovey-dovey we can introduce some more
brycewe should also look into recruiting a larger pool of potential mentors
Tavmjongtweenk: Remember to protect your 20% personal project time!
ScislaCagreed
Tavmjongbryce: Definitely agree.
brycewe won't know how many slots we get, but we should make sure we have manpower to scale up if we get a lot of slots
parclytaxelSo are going to GSoC?
tweenkTavmjong: I will keep that in mind :)
Mc-tweenk: you can mentor while being at google ? cool
tweenkMc-: hm, I need to double check
parclytaxel*we
ScislaCTavmjong: from what I hear, it's a myth... it's apparently frowned upon to not work on what you're normally working on with that 20%... however, perhaps that's just within the Chrome team.
brycewould be highly ironic if he couldn't
TavmjongShall we move on to FSA?
parclytaxelKya
bryceTavmjong, ok
bryceso, last I've heard, we were down to one last signoff needed
Tavmjong------------------------ Fiscal Sponsership Agreement -----------------
bryceand that person has indicated they've done it.  So afaik everything's done on our end.
parclytaxelWhat do we already have?
brycebut I've not heard from SFC on it one way or another
bryceI figure we should consider the new FSA now official and in effect
parclytaxelBryce, what are the most important points?
doctormonok
TavmjongSo we just need to ping them? (I sitll need to send in the paper copy... bad me.)
parclytaxelIf I somehow get my university to sponsor it
bryceIf folks want, I can take the action of following up to verify this, but it's been such a long process I kind of don't want to stir anything up!  ;-)
bryceTavmjong, oops, yeah get that in.  Might be they're waiting on odds and ends like that to filter in.
bryceanyone else not sent in the papers?
tweenkbryce: I'm a little out of the loop here, this FSA is a form contract for when a company wants to sponsor Inkscape?
parclytaxelI think zo
parclytaxel*so
TavmjongNo... its our agreement with the Software Freedom Conservancy.
brycetweenk, sort of; actually it's the contract between Inkscape and the Software Freedom Conservancy, that allows them to handle our money and legal matters, and specifies requirements we must follow to remain non-profit legally
ScislaCI mailed mine
tweenkbryce: Ah, OK. Any action required on my part?
brycetweenk, I suspect you'll need to sign it as well.  I assumed they'd have contacted you about that.
brycedoctormon, anyone from SFC contact you?
ScislaCtweenk: did you print it, sign it, scan it, email a copy to SFC, and mail them the original?
Tavmjongbryce: I don't think they need the new board member signatures. Wasn't that the reason to hold off a couple of days on announcing the results?
doctormonbryce: no
tweenkScislaC: nope, it's new to me, I can do it next week
bryceok, I'll take the action to follow up on this, and make sure whatever paperwork is needed gets to tweenk and doctormon
parclytaxelAnd make sure you do
brycetweenk and doctormon probably we'll need mailing addresses, but I'll contact you offlist.
bryceTavmjong, yeah I'll need to doublecheck that.  In any case, I'll do some digging and follow up.
TavmjongOK, should we move onto Website statement for code of conduct and privacy policy?
doctormonyhanks bryce
bryceTavmjong, sounds good
brycedoctormon, want to take the mike here?
Tavmjong------------------- Website statement for code of conduct and privacy policy -----------------
TavmjongWhat needs to be done? Who is driving it?
parclytaxelEr, what does the code of conduct apply to?
su_vhttps://inkscape.org/en/community/coc/
su_v"THIS IS A WORK IN PROGRESS!!!"
doctormoncode of conduct is for anyone chatting, posting, uploading art to the website
doctormonSince people can be interacting as user to user on our website, we needed to state the rules.
ScislaCsu_v!!!!
* su_v waves back
doctormonThe text in the link su_v has posted needs redrafting into something agreeable.
parclytaxelPull it from Derpi
Tavmjongdoctormon: Who is going to do that? What is the process?
FailBitrather don't
parclytaxelThey have clearer rules
FailBitand are not hosted in the US
FailBitand have rather different ideals in mind
FailBitdon't do that.
parclytaxelWait a minute.
JonCruztheir certs out of date, but...   http://adainitiative.org/2014/02/18/howto-design-a-code-of-conduct-for-your-community/
parclytaxelThat statemenr about "we accept everyone regardless of..."
doctormonTavmjong: We (Maren and I) passed it back to the board for review.
bryceI had done a heavy copyedit of this some time back.  Not sure if anyone's touched it since then, but I seem to recall thinking at the time that it felt good enough at least for a first cut
brycelikely would benefit from a second round of copyediting
TavmjongOK, so we should all read it and give comments on the board mailing list?
* Perendinating has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
bryceI'm willing to give it another go but I think a different set of eyes next would be the most beneficial
doctormonOr we could elect the next person to edit the page and then let them come back?
ScislaCI will give it a thorough look over too.
doctormonOr queue up the three or four people who haven't had a chance to take turns
tweenkbryce: I think the CoC could be cut down a little. We basically want people to be respectful and refrain from personal attacks in any form
bryceremember that it's editable via the website
bryceI think revisions are tracked too, in which case Just Do It might be easiest all around
brycedoctormon, a queue's not a bad idea actually
TavmjongHow about if ScislaC gives it a look over followed by tweenk  and then we then open up a discussion on the mailing list.
bryceput me on the end slot
bryceTavmjong, +1
doctormonTavmjong doesnt want a spot? :-)
TavmjongI'll comment on the mailing list after is perfect....
brycehe can be manager ;-)
doctormonYay
Tavmjongs/after is/after it is/
doctormonOK +1 Tavmjong
tweenkTavmjong: OK, I can commit to reviewing the CoC no later than Sunday and posting my feedback to the mailing list
parclytaxelBryce, resolve disputes yourself
ScislaCSounds like a plan
bryceok, next topic?
parclytaxelThere is no point in leaving the ramble to the users
TavmjongI'm running out of time.... maybe one more topic for today?
parclytaxelYes!
parclytaxelThe one I mentioned earlier.
ScislaCparclytaxel: that's not really board material honestly
bryceTavmjong, I'd actually like to status check on the funded development real quick
parclytaxelOK, go ahead
tweenkparclytaxel: I'll be here after the meeting and we can discuss
Tavmjongparclytaxel: Maybe we can arrange a technical IRC meeting.
brycelast we touched on it, iirc next action was getting two of the project descriptions fleshed out
parclytaxelHm. Sounds reasonable.
bryceScislaC, I think you took one and Tav took the other?
Tavmjong--------------------- Funded Development -----------------------  
bryce(technical irc meeting sounds like a great idea actually...)
TavmjongThat was so long ago... I remember working on it but don't know the status.
tweenkbryce: agree
doctormon+1 on technical meeting.
bryce* inkscape: Write up GSList project [Tav]
bryce* inkscape: Finalize/polish SVG2 flowtext [Josh]
bryceis what I have on my list
ScislaCI'll email the devel-list re: setting a technical meeting date/time.
bryceScislaC, thanks
TavmjongI did do that. (Since then, half of the work has been done so the project will be smaller.)
bryceTavmjong, oh good to hear
doctormonGreat
parclytaxelNote that I'll be on a holiday to South Korea in late November to early December so...
ScislaCbryce: I haven't touched it for months, I can put it on my todo list for next week to get it finished up.
bryceTavmjong, mind doublechecking that the description is still up to date and adequate?  I think we also needed deliverables identified and a few other such details.  I can help with that if it isn't clear what exactly's needed.
ScislaCparclytaxel: I'm going to suggest it for next week, don't worry about it.
parclytaxelBut that is when I will be having exams.
parclytaxelI need to MUG!!!
ScislaCparclytaxel: week after next?
parclytaxelHm, let me see..
TavmjongI'm looking at http://staging.inkscape.org/en/project/remove-all-use-of-glist-and-gslist/ but that isn't the latest text.
JonCruzwould be good to get some accurate performance measurements going.
bryceok, that's all on funded dev for now.  Once those descriptions are finalized next steps are web app dev and some PR, much of which I'll own.
JonCruzhaving metrics could help those
brycethanks all for coming to this meeting.  Shall we do again in a month?
parclytaxelThey end on 15 October, Scislac
doctormonbryce: +1 sounds good.
TavmjongMaybe one more sooner and then once a month since we missed some things.
ScislaCsounds good to me too
tweenkTavmjong: OK
doctormonbryce can you let me know if you want to work on the project app together?
parclytaxelSo is the meeting over?
ScislaCparclytaxel: if you're not subbed to the devel list, I'd recommend it since that is where the discussion about availability will happen.
bryceTavmjong, ok sort of a halloween special :-)
TavmjongYup.
brycedoctormon, yes would love to
parclytaxelHow can I sub?
brycedoctormon, for me these days mostly it's a function of scraping together chunks of time
TavmjongOK, I'm going to sign off..... See you all...
brycel8r Tavmjong
parclytaxelG'day, everyone!
tweenkparclytaxel: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/inkscape-devel
tweenkBye Tav
ScislaCsee ya Tavmjong!
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Mc-I have (investigate style.cpp refactor (url() style items should use URIReference)) and (investigate transforms, some things need cleaning) on my "will have to do some day" todolist
doctormonBye Tavmjong
doctormonbryce: I understand :-) we may need to sync up a block to at least get you set up and rolling

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