Author Topic: tested the 64-bit version  (Read 14956 times)

November 03, 2013, 03:03:44 PM
Read 14956 times

brynn

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Hi Friends,
I've been curious about the 64-bit version of Inkscape, which can be found at Partha.com.  I'm not sure if it would be called an official version or not.  But it is based on the current stable 32-bit version.  Anyway, I found myself with some free time and installed it.

I was able to open a 12.8 mb file without any problems.  It opened immediately, while with the 32-bit version, I had to wait 10 to 12 sec. for the same image to open.  In the 64-bit version, it ran with my computer idling.  But when I opened the same image in the 32-bit version, my computer's fan started running (like it does when I do a major security scan, for example).

I was able to make many basic edits in the 64-bit, without any trouble.  I had to zoom to 400% before there was any delay, while I have a delay in the 32-bit at 100% zoom (on this image).

I didn't test filters yet.  But I did a test that should indicate how it handles large numbers of nodes.  In the 32-bit version, I can only make 6 or 7 spirograms in a doc (using Spirograph extension) before Inkscape crashes.  In the 64-bit, I got to 12 spirograms before it crashed.  And technically, I'm not sure if what happened would be called a crash.....effectively it was a crash, I guess.  It just froze up, and I had to force it closed.

So in my very few, very non-technical, and very simple tests, the 64-bit version does provide an improvement over the 32-bit version, as far as performance issues.  I wouldn't call it a huge improvement.  But I would call it significant!

I'm not sure I care much for the gray interface.  It's hard to see and distinguish most of the icons, imo, and so far annoys me significantly, lol.  (Luckily I'm familiar enough to know them by their position in the interface.)  But in my work on realistic or photorealistic images, when I get to the point that I just can't work any longer in the 32-bit version, I'll be happy to switch over to the 64-bit version, and hopefully be able to finish a very large image.

So, that's my review  :)   I'm not sure if it would be helpful to know my system specs, for comparison.  So just in case:
Dell Studio 15
Win7, 64-bit
Intel Core i7 CPU   Q 720 @ 1.60GHz  1.60 GHz
4 GB RAM

I think Lazur said somewhere that he had some crashes with it.  I'd be interested to hear those details, if you have a chance, Lazur.

All best  :D
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November 03, 2013, 04:22:17 PM
Reply #1

Lazur

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I was trying to make a visual on that letter calligraphy.
A bit to improve that image:

This time I was about to reproduce a pattern that a smudge pen shape would make on a paper.
Created a pattern from a group of circles and duplicated it many times. 
Will post some example of it but again it crashed with the error message "Fatal error in gc; too many heap sections".
Also somehow selecting some hundred nodes at a time can take for long seconds -maybe even more than in the regular version?
I'm not sure, but I couldn't see if it would make work significantly more effective.

All on win8, 64bit
intel i5-3210M cpu 2.50 GHz 6GB ram


Edit: Yet another crash.
"microsoft visual c++ runtime library

runtime error

this application has requested the runtime to terminate it in an unusual way."

Here is the svg:
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/na96hx28aybl69q/v7b6.svg
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 05:10:37 PM by Lazur »

November 03, 2013, 06:46:42 PM
Reply #2

brynn

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Hhmmm....I actually got the too many heap sections error too.  But all I had done was zoom, I had not attempted to move or otherwise edit, at all.  I can't remember what the heap sections error means, but I know there are some old msgs at IF about it.

Just for comparison (once I reopened it) the 32-bit version took 12 seconds to move the left column of the B.  It moved in just 1 or 2 seconds on the 64-bit window.  There was also a minor delay in opening the file in 32-bit, but no delay in 64-bit.

Ok, next I tried just duplicating and moving the B made of tiny circle patterns.  In 32-bit version, it crashed on duplicating the B for the 2nd time (runtime error).  In the 64-bit version, I got 4 duplicates made, but it crashed on moving the 4th (heap sections).

So I'm still getting improvements in performance, despite the crashes.  Although of course the crashes can't be tolerated, especially in a 618 kb file.

I wonder if it could be something about this file?  Have you had crashes with other files?

Interesting -- I searched IF and found ~suv had referred to this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/168914, when answering a "too many heap sections error" msg.  You probably understand more than I do about those comments.  But in some of them it seems to refer to the heap sections error being related to libs used by "distros".  And if I understand what a distro is, perhaps this problem is related to a lib that Partha used?  Maybe you could report the heap sections error to him, and also refer to that bug report.  Maybe he could fix it?  Well, assuming I understand correctly, lol!  It seems to point that way to me anyway  :-S
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November 03, 2013, 08:05:22 PM
Reply #3

Lazur

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Thank's for looking at it!

Seems it's a fundamental part of the program which itself not belongs to the developers work:
http://www.math.uiuc.edu/Macaulay2/doc/Macaulay2-1.6/share/doc/Macaulay2/Macaulay2Doc/html/___G__C_spgarbage_spcollector.html
So either the garbage collector needs to be updated, or some parts in inkscape that creates too much garbage.

That bug report was written because immediate crashing when opening large files, so it's a bit different case.
I cannot tell what action leads to crashing with that message.
To be honest I am more interested in actually putting a design together than
finding out why the program cannot work well.
Maybe using a pattern was not a good idea, as patterns have other problems as well.

Since then tried to draw an image alike in a different way, but that crashed the program too.
This time used the latest development build though.

November 03, 2013, 09:04:39 PM
Reply #4

brynn

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Quote (selected)
To be honest I am more interested in actually putting a design together than
finding out why the program cannot work well.

Aahh, ok, I understand  :)

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November 13, 2013, 08:32:09 PM
Reply #5

Lazur

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Moved on a bit.
Well, quite a bit, I had enough of win8, so now I run opensuse (there were some problems installing ubuntustudio...).
That means no 64bit version yet, never mind.

Anyway, with that imagery now tried another way: drew strokes in each small dots around the pen shape.
Actually that is far from perfect, even though it has a more consistent look.
The z order of the strokes would need to be changed by moving along the strokes in any small bits,
but with a small stroke width used it at least mimmicks the look.

Here is the imagery:
-click on it for a 3000*3000 version-

November 14, 2013, 01:44:13 PM
Reply #6

brynn

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Well, I still don't understand what your goal is, in all those experiments to draw B? in a simulated 3d appearance.  But now you've done it at least 3 different ways (with a D shaped profile, with tiny circles, and tiny circles with a path inside).  What is your goal?

I don't know if it would help, but the results of this last technique, the appearance, reminds me of interpolation.  I'll bet that B? could be recreated using interpolated paths.  The paths would be in the B? shape, but different colors, to indicate highlights and shadows.  You'd have to have 1 set of interpolated paths for the shadow side and another set for the highlight side.  Although it might only work for lighting that was directly from the left or right.  If the lighting was at any non-zero angle, though, it would be really tricky.  But I don't really understand what you're looking for.

Yes, I have heard that Inkscape runs a lot faster on Linux, than on Windows.  I'd like to abandon Windows for Linux too, but I can't seem to get psyched up for the learning curve.   :@@:
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November 15, 2013, 03:27:20 AM
Reply #7

Lazur

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My goal is to draw a "typographic" letter by series of pulled strokes.
I want to break it down to steps and for that, create some imagery.
To have a clearer illustration, I was trying to capture how a brush would leave a bit mixed paint marks on the paper,
but it seems to be too complex.
By pulling the pen/brush, each point of it leaves a continuous stroke.
With this setup, each of this stroke is the exact same, translated to right positions.
The real problem with it is the z order of this separate strokes.
By that small circle method each point has a correct composite, as they are hidden by the ones following them.
With the latter, the problem cannot be solved in it's fullness with svg's capabilities.
Now to make it clearer, I would have to draw another image.

So this simple letter is becoming more of a reinventing typography from it's roots.
At typophile wise men suggested to read a copy of The Stroke: Theory of Writing.
Haven't got a copy of that 96 pages yet, but I'm guessing by the time I get to have all parts illustrated, I could make a similar book out of it.
That won't be any soon as this project will concentrate on that ? mark futher on.

November 15, 2013, 08:38:14 AM
Reply #8

brynn

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Quote (selected)
I was trying to capture how a brush would leave a bit mixed paint marks on the paper,....
By pulling the pen/brush, each point of it leaves a continuous stroke.

Wouldn't how the pen or brush leaves its mark on the paper, depend primarily on what substance the pen or brush is made of?  For example, a pen and a brush are very different from the start.  Typically what I think of as a brush is made up of a bunch of short hairs or fibers.  Each hair or fiber might or might not be in contact with the paper, depending on how the brush is manipulated.  An artist, for example, might twist the brush as the stroke is made, and that would change which hairs/fibers touch the paper at all.  And then there is the matter of how much paint (and what kind of paint) that hair/fiber carries.  Speaking of a single hair/fiber, I'm not even sure if it would apply its load of paint evenly.

And speaking of a pen, what kind of pen?  I'm sure a ball point pen applies its ink entirely differently than, for example, a felt tip marker (which are often called "pens").  Which fibers of the felt tip are touching the paper, and whether they have a strong connection to the supply of ink would determine how much ink they are capable of leaving on the paper.  And again, the ball point pen is just very different from the felt-tip variety.  I guess a ball point pen must leave, sort of a connected string of....crescent shapes, on the paper?  Well, at least in a straight line stroke.  Curves would be different.

So (after that long brain storm) you must be assuming that all those factors are the same?  Because it seems to me almost a random chance of whether the substance of the pen or brush is touching the paper, or how much paint or ink it carries, and/or delivers, at any given time.

Some of the results of your efforts so far appear to give a simulated 3d appearance of the typographic letter.  However, "typographic" itself, almost implies 2d, to me.  Is the 3d appearance necessary?

Well it seems like you have the z order problem solved, with the tiny circles.  But I still think interpolation has some possibilities.  It could solve the z order issue too  :)
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November 16, 2013, 04:30:57 PM
Reply #9

Lazur

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Soon it will be more than necessary to move it all to a work in progress thread but I'm a bit unsure where to start it.

I was referring to pen without any technical detail, as that comes into mind when speaking of lettering.
However, felt tip pens -markers- could leave same patterns on the paper as a bunch of hair of a brush.

I'm trying to capture an ideal case, where that "pen shape" is just translated along the path, without any rotation or scaling,
with even paint/ink left behind.
With the original image, the red and green edges would serve as individual tips next to eachother.
As their shape is the same after translating or rotating, it is more trivial that if the "pen shape" is made out of those two, then it would look as depicted.
Then I thought, that is not really necessary, rather confusing to picture that way.
That is the main reason for remaking it, to add a more "natural" look.

Ball point pen would never come to my mind for calligraphy.


I was looking around how serif lettering become as we know today.
Could trace at least Alberti's "B", the others seems a bit mixed up.
BUT there is one essential work, next to the mentioned Gerrit Noordzij book,
which is the origin of the serif by Edward M. Catich.
Here is an excerpt from the book:
1)      The Imperial stone letterer was the craft brother of today?s sign-writer;
2)      The instrumental cause of Roman stonecut letters was the flat, square-edged brush;
3)      A master sign-writer manipulating such a brush wrote the inscription directly on stone then chiseled what he had written;
4)      ?double line? layout, as some contend, was not used, that is, letters were not outlined then filled in;
5)      Serifs and stroke endings are not the product of chisel-handling and glyptic influences, rather they were the result of skillful but natural behavior of the brush;
6)      The chisel added nothing to the outlines and shapes of the letters;
7)      The chisel cut only what was written;
8)      It is no more difficult to chisel curved than straight letter parts;
9)      The chisel can cut any shape written by the brush;
10)  The written inscription was the important element and not the cutting;
11)  Cast shadows of chiseled V-cuts did not (as some insist) influence and alter the basic letter shapes made by the brush;
12)  The chisel by sinking the writing below the surface served only to guard the writing from effacement by weathering;
13) After chiseling the letters were repainted with minium to restore the original writing.

http://artlegacyleague.blogspot.hu/p/stone-lettering.html

And here is how he wrote the letter B:


That texture, and actually that kind of letter constructing is what I'm after.

November 16, 2013, 05:55:55 PM
Reply #10

brynn

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I can split this topic, if you like, and start a new topic in Work in Progress board, for this project.  Just tell me what you want for a title.

Oh, calligraphy!  Somehow, I missed that part   :uhoh:
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November 24, 2013, 06:14:27 PM
Reply #11

Lazur

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« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 04:53:04 AM by Lazur »