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Author Topic: Greetings from Salt Lake City  (Read 6744 times)

February 01, 2017, 11:26:05 PM
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ryangorley

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Hello all,
I'm excited to join the board. I manage a small creative agency, and I'm working my guts out to break our dependence upon Adobe and pave the way for others of my peers to do the same, as many of you already have. My goal is to be an open-source-first studio. What I mean by that is if we can use a tool that is free and open source over a proprietary tool to accomplish what we need, we'll use it. Right now Blender is our primary 3D rendering and animation tool, with . Gimp, Krita, Scribus, and Inkscape (of course) are other tools in our toolbox, but we're frankly much less experienced with these. I'm hoping to change that.

You're welcome to follow our Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram accounts if you're interested. I also curate a board about open source creative tools on Flipboard called Open Creativity and share such things on my personal Twitter account in between other posts of personal interest. Anyhow, good to meet you all!

February 02, 2017, 12:40:43 AM
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brynn

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Welcome to the forum!

Please feel free to ask, if you need help with Inkscape.
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February 02, 2017, 09:45:56 PM
Reply #2

ryangorley

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Welcome to the forum!

Please feel free to ask, if you need help with Inkscape.

I will. Thank you!

February 07, 2017, 04:35:58 PM
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k-drive

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Wow. That is a cool video on YouTube. Was that all (objects and animation) created in Blender?
The website is really great, too. I really like the way the glasses explode.

Ken

February 09, 2017, 12:06:56 PM
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ryangorley

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Hi k-drive,
Thanks for the compliments! Everything in that video was textured, animated and rendered in Blender, but the origin of the models vary. For visualization work we are usually starting with something exported out of SolidWorks.

February 15, 2017, 04:37:10 AM
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ha1flosse

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Quote from: ryangorley
My goal is to be an open-source-first studio. What I mean by that is if we can use a tool that is free and open source over a proprietary tool to accomplish what we need, we'll use it. Right now Blender is our primary 3D rendering and animation tool, with . Gimp, Krita, Scribus, and Inkscape (of course) are other tools in our toolbox, but we're frankly much less experienced with these. I'm hoping to change that.

cool. what was the motivation for such a goal? would be nice to see some pieces of (inkscape-)art in the future too.
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February 15, 2017, 10:08:15 PM
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ryangorley

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cool. what was the motivation for such a goal? would be nice to see some pieces of (inkscape-)art in the future too.

I think the straw that broke the camel's back for me has been the trend towards software-as-a-service. That model is fantastic for businesses and terrible for consumers. Businesses already dominant in their market love SAAS, because it lowers the cost of adoption of their software, thus increasing their dominance over smaller competitors, while raising the barrier-to-entry for new competitors who will not have a large enough user base to compete at that low-cost, high-volume game. In the absence of competition, and without the need to motivate customers to upgrade to a new version every year or two, profits skyrocket because less money now needs to be spent on software improvements and marketing. In the process consumers who thought they were getting a great deal in the beginning, are now dependent upon tool providers who no longer need to do a whole lot to keep them around.

This is exactly what has happened since Adobe has moved to a SAAS model. New releases are no longer about innovations, but rather new methods to create interdependence between their tools and their growing number of services. I cannot remember their last Creative Cloud release that really made my job easier or my work better. I'm not paying less and I now have thousands of files that I can only edit by subscribing to an additional 12 month license. I'm just not interested in it anymore, and I think designers need to take a stand and support the only real alternatives, which are free and open source tools that cannot just be bought out as soon as they pose some threat to the status quo.

There are other, more personal, motivators for me. Free and open source software is a way to foster a more egalitarian world where people are unencumbered by their limited means or access to expensive tools. The whole of humanity is improved when talented people are able to communicate and create. If I can by some small means contribute to that cause, I would like to do so. By building awareness of, donating to, and otherwise contributing to free and open source software I feel like I am helping create that world.

I wish I could just get everyone to get on board, but even within my own company it is hard. But open-source-first is my goal, and something I'm going to keep working towards.

February 16, 2017, 05:18:37 AM
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Moini

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@Ryan: This testimonial sounds really wonderful! Is there a chance that you would turn it into a guest post in a news article at inkscape.org?

(sorry to chip in into this really interesting conversation)

February 16, 2017, 08:29:10 AM
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ryangorley

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@Ryan: This testimonial sounds really wonderful! Is there a chance that you would turn it into a guest post in a news article at inkscape.org?

(sorry to chip in into this really interesting conversation)

Sure. I'd be glad to write something up if that will help out. Let's exchange contact info over PM.

February 16, 2017, 09:03:22 AM
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ha1flosse

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Quote from: ryangorley
Sure. I'd be glad to write something up if that will help out. Let's exchange contact info over PM.

Nice!

Quote from: ryangorley
I think the straw that broke the camel's back for me has been the trend towards software-as-a-service. That model is fantastic for businesses and terrible for consumers. Businesses already dominant in their market love SAAS, because it lowers the cost of adoption of their software, thus increasing their dominance over smaller competitors, while raising the barrier-to-entry for new competitors who will not have a large enough user base to compete at that low-cost, high-volume game. In the absence of competition, and without the need to motivate customers to upgrade to a new version every year or two, profits skyrocket because less money now needs to be spent on software improvements and marketing. In the process consumers who thought they were getting a great deal in the beginning, are now dependent upon tool providers who no longer need to do a whole lot to keep them around.


This is exactly what has happened since Adobe has moved to a SAAS model. New releases are no longer about innovations, but rather new methods to create interdependence between their tools and their growing number of services. I cannot remember their last Creative Cloud release that really made my job easier or my work better. I'm not paying less and I now have thousands of files that I can only edit by subscribing to an additional 12 month license. I'm just not interested in it anymore, and I think designers need to take a stand and support the only real alternatives, which are free and open source tools that cannot just be bought out as soon as they pose some threat to the status quo.

ok, thats reasonable. apart from that the SAAS is just a logic step to keep businesses like adobe running and profits growing constantly in a pretty fast-paced environment for digital products. at first sight not a bad idea for both of them, consumer and business, as the SAAS model has benefits and costs on both sides. i think there is a lot of competition also for big businesses because of open-source-tools available, becoming better, feature rich and usable in professional environments. and it is still just a question of time for big businesses to significantly loose market shares, if they are not top-notch with their products. otherwise more people and professionals will turn over to open-source-tools and free equivalents. to put all the money into the development of the software and less into marketing would be a wise idea for them. if they don't, they won't sell their stuff via SAAS either. to punish the customer with additional fees and useless services is just a indication for loosing balance regarding the benefit-cost relations which unavoidable results in a bad situation for the company no longer selling the product or services in the long term.

today, a lot of people still use SAAS products and are happy with the low cost access to tools you'd have spent thousands of $ ten years back. i had a big discussion with a friend of mine, an independet filmmaker, about SAAS products and espc. Adobe's "Premiere" last year. although he is short on money, he stated that Adobe's tool meets standards regarding usability and codecs which open-source-tools wouldn't and which he needs for his professional work, so he is willing to pay for it. why not.

if you strip it down and have a look at the counterparts on the open-source-side, there is and will be a race for standards the software has to match for professional environments and features it needs to be usable. for example i've been reading a lot of complains at other cgi - forums about the new GIMP and the new Inkscape too - long development cycles, almost no new features, small to no improvements on perfomance. you could have written the same about Adobes tools, but they seem to meet standards most professional people in cgi are missing with the open-source-counterparts. if this is so, it's also a good reason to stick to properitary software however. who cares?

there are business models around open-source-tools also and they struggle too, as seen with the cannonical - amazon - deals and ubuntu to raise money for its further development. its pretty hard for a fair business model based on donations to compete with a business model based on user fees. both has its up- and downsides. i understand people who want to feed their families from developing and selling properitary software tools, and i also understand those who have time and money to create an open-source-software available for free. both seems to be necessary. everything else is in between and its evaluation always depends on subjective experiences and viewpoints. it rather seems that the SAAS - model has some common ground with the business-models of some open-source-systems too, not selling the software to customers, just selling the service for/with the software. redhat and novell are good examples for that.

seems like they are dependencies everywhere in life, like by using open-source-tools someone could be dependant upon providers developing the open-source-software he/she needs in the workflow.

Quote from: ryangorley
There are other, more personal, motivators for me. Free and open source software is a way to foster a more egalitarian world where people are unencumbered by their limited means or access to expensive tools. The whole of humanity is improved when talented people are able to communicate and create. If I can by some small means contribute to that cause, I would like to do so. By building awareness of, donating to, and otherwise contributing to free and open source software I feel like I am helping create that world.

I wish I could just get everyone to get on board, but even within my own company it is hard. But open-source-first is my goal, and something I'm going to keep working towards.

true, but looking at the essential meaning of your words, you could also say open-source-software is just a way to whatever, a piece of art, something nice and fair, beautiful with good intentions. even that and everything else is just a subjective viewpoint depending on the person using the software. to foster a more egalitarian world, it's all about the doing and the motivation, not the tools someone is using. your motivation is good and fair, maybe thats why open-source-software seems to be a good idea for you reflecting yourself. and it surely is for a lot of people like me too, who enjoy all of their benefits and their costs.

about your websites: nice informations, i was just missing infos regarding LibreOffice and other open-source-publishing-tools on your Open Creativity board. i've been working at several non profit ngo's in the past, all of them exclusively using open-source-systems and tools, and LibreOffice (or OpenOffice) was always part of the management - workflow creatives use to write concepts, organize the administration and put publications or portfolios together. and there are other publishing tools like scribus for example, which might be interesting for creatives of the writing guild to read about.
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February 16, 2017, 03:14:19 PM
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Moini

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@ha1flosse: open source developers don't generally go hungry, that's a common misunderstanding. Linux experts are sought-after people. Many develop and work with the tools in their day job. Like Bryce, Martin, my partner and many more people I know. Open Source is not really gratis, there are people and enterprises paying for a big part of it.

The standards you describe are often only more-or-less de-facto standards, created by having a large userbase, not by the standards being standardized and accessible to everyone. It's like 'everyone is using tool X, and so, the next link in the supply chain also only accepts things created with tool X'.
E.g. SVG is a standard, while AI is not. SVG allows you to choose the program that you want to use to open and edit the file, AI doesn't really. That's because it's proprietary, and you need to pick the file format apart, if you want to have a useful file, instead of a binary blob that just takes space on your disk, but cannot be used after the subscription ends. That situation is called vendor lock-in.

(yeah, I know Inkscape doesn't know pdf X or CMYK, but Scribus does)


February 16, 2017, 04:16:46 PM
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brynn

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This is exactly what has happened since Adobe has moved to a SAAS model.

Oh, is that what you call it?  I thought it was "greed".

Strictly my opinion.
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February 16, 2017, 07:26:50 PM
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ryangorley

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today, a lot of people still use SAAS products and are happy with the low cost access to tools you'd have spent thousands of $ ten years back. i had a big discussion with a friend of mine, an independet filmmaker, about SAAS products and espc. Adobe's "Premiere" last year. although he is short on money, he stated that Adobe's tool meets standards regarding usability and codecs which open-source-tools wouldn't and which he needs for his professional work, so he is willing to pay for it. why not.

if you strip it down and have a look at the counterparts on the open-source-side, there is and will be a race for standards the software has to match for professional environments and features it needs to be usable. for example i've been reading a lot of complains at other cgi - forums about the new GIMP and the new Inkscape too - long development cycles, almost no new features, small to no improvements on perfomance. you could have written the same about Adobes tools, but they seem to meet standards most professional people in cgi are missing with the open-source-counterparts. if this is so, it's also a good reason to stick to properitary software however. who cares?

There's not quick and easy solution to this problem. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it, but here is what I've come up with thus far:
  • Build awareness. As it relates specifically to designers, I think we need to demonstrate excellent work with FOSS in order to break down perceptions about the capabilities of the tools and their use by professionals. We must also insist that our public institutions, which have a mandate to serve the greater public interest, are building proficiency among students and staff with these tools. We can also introduce these tools into our existing workflows, even side-by-side with proprietary tools, as a way to inform peers and employers about their availability.
  • Facilitate learning. We have to understand that in many cases we are going to have to teach people already familiar with proprietary tools how to use tools that are sometimes very different in their logic and layout. For this to work we need to make learning easier, which goes beyond relying upon random tutorials on the internet, but collecting the very best resources and making them easy to find.
  • Improve usability. Just today I was trying to get a fellow designer working on Inkscape for essentially the first time, and the experience installing and running the software on MacOS was a real turn off. At the most fundamental level FOSS has to run to be adopted, and sometimes it doesn't. Ultimately though, it needs to become easier to use by people who have not been using it for years, or they're not going to stick with it.
  • Dream bigger. It won't be enough in the long-run for FOSS to simply achieve parity with proprietary tools, it needs to be better. Why not figure out how to attract more of the very best talent? Why not create methods to discover and enact the best ideas faster than Adobe, Autodesk, or whoever? Our underlying argument is that sharing and collaborating yield better results, let's prove it!
I know none of these things are easy. I can point them out, as I'm sure many have before, without the power in-and-of myself to bring any of them entirely about. But I can try, and you have to start somewhere.

February 17, 2017, 07:19:06 AM
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ha1flosse

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@ha1flosse: open source developers don't generally go hungry, that's a common misunderstanding. Linux experts are sought-after people. Many develop and work with the tools in their day job. Like Bryce, Martin, my partner and many more people I know. Open Source is not really gratis, there are people and enterprises paying for a big part of it.

The standards you describe are often only more-or-less de-facto standards, created by having a large userbase, not by the standards being standardized and accessible to everyone. It's like 'everyone is using tool X, and so, the next link in the supply chain also only accepts things created with tool X'.
E.g. SVG is a standard, while AI is not. SVG allows you to choose the program that you want to use to open and edit the file, AI doesn't really. That's because it's proprietary, and you need to pick the file format apart, if you want to have a useful file, instead of a binary blob that just takes space on your disk, but cannot be used after the subscription ends. That situation is called vendor lock-in.

(yeah, I know Inkscape doesn't know pdf X or CMYK, but Scribus does)

right..open-source has always been a part of the big business.

Quote from: Moini
There's not quick and easy solution to this problem. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it, but here is what I've come up with thus far:

    Build awareness. As it relates specifically to designers, I think we need to demonstrate excellent work with FOSS in order to break down perceptions about the capabilities of the tools and their use by professionals. We must also insist that our public institutions, which have a mandate to serve the greater public interest, are building proficiency among students and staff with these tools. We can also introduce these tools into our existing workflows, even side-by-side with proprietary tools, as a way to inform peers and employers about their availability.
    Facilitate learning. We have to understand that in many cases we are going to have to teach people already familiar with proprietary tools how to use tools that are sometimes very different in their logic and layout. For this to work we need to make learning easier, which goes beyond relying upon random tutorials on the internet, but collecting the very best resources and making them easy to find.
    Improve usability. Just today I was trying to get a fellow designer working on Inkscape for essentially the first time, and the experience installing and running the software on MacOS was a real turn off. At the most fundamental level FOSS has to run to be adopted, and sometimes it doesn't. Ultimately though, it needs to become easier to use by people who have not been using it for years, or they're not going to stick with it.
    Dream bigger. It won't be enough in the long-run for FOSS to simply achieve parity with proprietary tools, it needs to be better. Why not figure out how to attract more of the very best talent? Why not create methods to discover and enact the best ideas faster than Adobe, Autodesk, or whoever? Our underlying argument is that sharing and collaborating yield better results, let's prove it!

I know none of these things are easy. I can point them out, as I'm sure many have before, without the power in-and-of myself to bring any of them entirely about. But I can try, and you have to start somewhere.

i've been writing some lines thinking about your post, but they got lost while trying to post it due a timeout so i'll have to keep it short. your 4 point - plan is nice and it would surely help to promote open-source-software in a appropriate way.
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April 17, 2017, 09:59:33 AM
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Moini

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Hi Ryan - are you still up to authoring some nice article for the Inkscape website? I think you might not have received my email in February.

April 17, 2017, 10:26:54 AM
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ryangorley

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Absolutely. I think I sent you a private message with my email address. I would love to correspond more directly.

April 17, 2017, 02:22:53 PM
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Moini

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I think then my email from February 16th must have ended up in your spam folder, Ryan... I've sent it again now - please let me know if you received it.