Inkscape Community
Help Using Inkscape => Using Inkscape with Other Apps => Topic started by: Melodicpinpon on April 11, 2015, 11:51:01 PM
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Hello dear Inkscape drawers!
I am new in this community and want to use Inkscape in order to use patterns and drawings to create 3D-printed prosthetic sockets through Blender.
(I spent so much time learning Blender, now that I feel confident about it, I would like to be able to create all kinds of patterns by myself, in order to integrate them into the prosthetic's socket design.
As I prepare a final work within my studies of prosthetics about 3D printing, I learned that I could use .svg files to create an extruded 3D drawing.
Therefore, and because this project involves many other aspects, I would like to know if there were places on the web where I could find free .svg abstract patterns and drawings that I could use to create my shapes.
If anyone feels like sending .svg files to receive a 3D file, fitted to a patient's limb, in return, please contact me.
Thank you for your help,
Gauthier
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Welcome to our forum!
Oh my, that is fascinating indeed! And a couple of our members have some good experience with Blender, in case you have questions. Although you did say you have already learned Blender.
Yes, there probably are some places on the web where you can find free abstract SVG patterns. And Inkscape can surely create abstract patterns as well, through a few....or even several techniques. But I'm having a hard time making the leap in my mind, from entirely abstract pattern, to "prosthetic socket". Because wouldn't the prosthetic need to match the patient's unique body? I guess prosthetics in general would not necessarily fit a convex shape, but maybe sometimes concave. But anyway, still, would need to fit their unique body.
Your attachment makes me wonder if the abstract pattern might be needed to form a kind of structure, or maybe matrix-like filling, for parts of the prosthetic.....except that I think that sort of interwoven appearance in your attachment is just how Blender has extruded the shape.
Once I understand what kind of abstract patterns you need, I could suggest some places to look for patterns, help you learn how to create abstract patterns with Inkscape, and maybe even send some SVG files with patterns. I would not need a 3D file in return. But maybe you could provide the 3d file for someone who needs a prosthetic, but who can't help you with Inkscape?
(I can't speak for everyone here, but we're here because we like to help people learn Inkscape, and spread the word about how awesome Inkscape is. So it's not much of a stretch to helping people get a new prosthetic, especially if it's as simple as drawing a pattern. I've heard how fantastic these 3D printers can be, for making prosthetics, and especially for children who need new ones as they grow. I doubt any of us would hesitate to help, if we can, from here.)
In addition to what kind of patterns you need, are there any specific requirements? Like for example, does the pattern need to be a single path? Or could it be a compound path (multiple paths that aren't attached to each other, necessarily) or overlapping paths? Or just multiple paths with different styles (stroke width, color, etc.) Could it be made of vector shapes (circle, rectangle, spiral, etc.)? Could it be made of clones? Or maybe, must it be any of those things?
Oh! Is the abstract pattern for some kind of textured surface of the finished prosthetic? That could be fun, making texture patterns for kids' prosthetics (if that's what it's for)!
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Hello Brynn,
wouldn't the prosthetic need to match the patient's unique body?
-Yes, that is why I start from a scaned amputed limb, that I work within Blender. I created a tutorial (in french) that I can share, in case somebody is interested.
that sort of interwoven appearance in your attachment is just how Blender has extruded the shape
-It is indeed just a result of an extrusion of the edges of a low-poly mesh. I was searching for a way to create some kind of organic holes, such as the Cortex orthosis have(from Jake Evil) I did not find the way to do it yet, even through 3DS Max, that should do it. But I could do it if I had just a .svg sketch of the shapes I want to create.
are there any specific requirements?
-In any case, the part has to be connected, to make a signle part. In the picture above, I cut the orthosis in two parts in order to be able to enter the limb. If we want to use a FDM 3D-printer, which is cheaper, the pattern must be made in such a way that there is no 'overhang' (it is probably more secure to avoid open-ended lines at first, or only going up from the base, and without too much angle). If we use a powder 3D-printer, which creates stronger parts, there won't be any other design limitation.
Is the abstract pattern for some kind of textured surface of the finished prosthetic?
-Yes, the pattern would be what appears from the printer, but the idea is to extrude it, curve it and make it fit to the mesh of the scan. I already learned how to do that. Here's why some beautifull designs would give the use of 3D printers its whole meaning.
-If anybody is interested to help sending files, and want to learn more about the technique and the whole project, (s)he can send me an email at kervyngauthierATgmailDOTcom and I can provide all the needed information, with pleasure.
I'm glad to receive your answer, and hope to make beautifull things together.
Gauthier
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Hello Gauthier!
A voronoi pattern may be a good start.
http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Release_notes/0.91#New (http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Extensions-GenerateFromPath.html#Extensions-Voronoi)
Probably something similar could be generated by blender too? If displaced-bumpmapped textures could be turned to meshes...
I don't know how can blender project an svg straight on a mesh, other than using a mesh deform modifier.
If you can put your hands on rhinoceros, with the grasshopper you can generate great designs.
http://www.grasshopper3d.com/ (http://www.grasshopper3d.com/)
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I did a minor edit of your last reply, and at least partially disguised your email address. It will reduce the spam you'll get from posting it publicly. Or if you like, you could edit your message, and offer to share your email address via Private Message. That will completely prevent you from getting spam (at least from being posted in this forum). Although perhaps that's less convenient, if someone doesn't want to register, to get access to the Private Messages. Well, it's up to you, as you like :)
Is the abstract pattern for some kind of textured surface of the finished prosthetic?
-Yes, the pattern would be what appears from the printer, but the idea is to extrude it, curve it and make it fit to the mesh of the scan. I already learned how to do that. Here's why some beautifull designs would give the use of 3D printers its whole meaning.
I think I understand what you mean. So for example, a little boy might like a Spiderman pattern, or a little girl might like a princess pattern. Something like that? Or of course, adults may like something very abstract....maybe like a fractal pattern, or foliage, or floral, or paisley? Like that? I guess they can choose what color the prosthetic is printed with. Is there any possibility for more than 1 color?
Certainly, I think it would be fun to make some patterns. I don't necessarily need details about the workings of Blender, and I can't read French anyway. But we would need some details about how the pattern is made.
It sounds like, for one kind of printer, you need the pattern to precisely fit the outline of the prosthetic pieces. In that case, wouldn't we need the outline shape?
But for a different kind of printer, it sounds like maybe you could use a tiled pattern.
:idea: If you're setting up a business or organization, perhaps you could even offer to make custom textures/patterns?!
Can you show us some examples of what some of the prosthetics look like? Mostly for inspiration, but it sounds like for one kind of printer, the artist might need to have the precise shape of the prosthetic?
Could you show us an example of a file with a pattern that meets all your needs?
Here are a couple of places where you could look for nice, free, svg or vector patterns:
- Open Clipart (http://www.openclipart.org) - recently OCL has become more of a social media type of site, but started out as "Open Clipart Library" and still contains a lot of good vector work. But you'll have to search it out. Everything has a Public Domain license and is free. Most (if not all) of them are available in SVG format. Even though the site says "clipart" you can find all kinds of artwork there.
- http://www.cgtextures.com/ - As far as I can tell, these are all raster textures. But some of them could either be converted to vector (using Inkscape) or for inspiration for someone to draw it new in SVG. Be sure to read their FAQ about licensing, copyright, etc. They're free, but not for all types of uses.
- http://www.vectorportal.com/ - I don't know much about this site. Be sure to read their license and tou, to make sure about copyrights, etc. It looks like they're all vector, but I see a lot are AI or IPS. These could be converted to SVG, using Inkscape, as far as I know.
- http://www.vecteezy.com/ - same here - I don't know much about them, so be sure to check licenses, scan for malware if you download any, check for license, copyright, etc.
- http://www.assistcg.com/ - same here
And that's all I have for potntially ready made stuff. Maybe I'll start with a paisley design, probably sometime next week, an manybe we can iron out some requirements for tje FO:
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Hello,
Well, here's the story: as a 3rd year student of orthopedy, I was meant to choose a subject for my final work and chose to study 3D printing; then I met Nicolas Huchet who made the Bionico Hand DIY project(myo-electric prosthetic adaptation of a robotic hand). As I was with a friend who happens to be amputed from the right arm and leg(above elbow and knee).
So we decided to add a wrist and an elbow to this design. 6 monthes and much mails later, there is a bunch of interested people(but not all so keen, lol) We have scans of the amputed limbs, know how to fit a svg, extrude it, and shrinkwrap it on the scan, I made internships in prosthesists workplaces, have references of motors, some electonician friends recreate the EMG sensors etc. All this is probably just for fun, but the use of 3D printers for orthopedical devices will rise for sure; it will probably concern first aesthetics for tibial prosthesis(shape of the leg around the rod), immobilisation orthosis for bone injury/paralysis/paretesis; corsets(with a big printer), and maybe the last one will be sockets for prosthetics(first arms and then legs, because of higher constraints). I can't post images in the answer, but feel free to visit the forum if you feel like,(http://forum.caliban-web.com/projets/prothese-de-bras-myo-electrique-t4202-75.html?sid=f61184c876c0252f2c46d220e7bc094a) the files are on a google drive account. Sorry for writing much. Rhino requires money, but I guess it could help later on to get crazy shapes.Here's for the extrusion of .svg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ows2QTiMRPg
There is no need to have the size or the limits because the right way to do it is to add the limit after(I think), and I can scale it easily if it is big enough(many patterns). It does not go through a texture. The printing of several colors/materials is still a bit tuff(I still look to buy one), but yes it is possible(2max for FDM, a whole painting for powders-look a bit washed-)As for the business, yes, maybe some people would like something personal.Thank you for your interest.
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Yikes, looks like I fell asleep at the end of my last message! :doz: Don't worry, writing too much is not a problem here :D
I think plenty of people would be glad to help with supplying patterns. But so far, you haven't given us enough information about the patterns you need. There are too many possibilities to leave it as "abstract pattern". Even if I, or anyone, sent you some files with patterns, we have no way of knowing whether they will be useful or not. Because a "pattern" in Inkscape can mean a few different things.
So just know that I'll be glad to help, and I think others may be interested as well. But we can't do anything, until we have more information. Here's what we need to know:
-- Will this be pattern be printed on the prosthetic, so that the surface is smooth? Or sort of etched into it, like a texture?
-- Do you need a photographic type of pattern? Any photo can be made into a pattern with Inkscape (although it would be raster content within the SVG file). Or do you need vector only - paths? (For Blender, I think it must be paths, but I'm not sure.) Most of the textures at the CG Textures site, are photos, but in the Various category are some designs that could easily be converted to vector. Or of course we can draw unique patterns or designs for you.
-- What size should the pattern units be, for repeating patterns? And for non-repeating patterns, it still helps to have a general idea for the abstract designs.
-- What are the outer dimensions of the whole "sheet"?
Even though, as you said, you can scale it to fit, I'm not sure if that's an appropriate approach....at least as far as I understand this. Let's say we sent you a file with an A4 size document, let's say with pattern units approx 1 inch2, tiled to fill that A4 doc. If you're working on a leg prosthesis, by the time you scale it large enough, the pattern units may be too big to identify or recognize. Or if you're working on a hand, and reduce the A4 document, the pattern may be too small to recognize.
With Inkscape, we could quite easily make you a "sheet" of 1 inch pattern units the size of a house! So that part is not a problem. We just need to know how large or small to make it, as well as the size of the pattern units. And in the case of entirely abstract patterns (not tiled or repeating) it would still be helpful to know the general unit size, as a guide to know what size the abstract designs need to be.
Or, are you asking for a single pattern unit, and you plan to tile it yourself?
I visited your forum, but as I said before, I can't read French. If there are any images showing the kind of patterns you need, can you post a link or links directly to the images? I looked at the YT video you provided a link to, but I'm not sure how that can help us with knowing about the designs or patterns you need.
So anyway, let us know when you're ready, and can give us the info we need. Some of us could produce a file (or a few files) within a few hours to a day or 2, or others might need a week or 2, depending on the complexity of the pattern, and how much free time they have.
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Thank you, it sounds good:) As you ask, here is what would help:
The pattern sent would not be printed on a flat surface, it would become the only existing surface: black=materia/white=hole
-Black draw, on a white sheet
-closed lines
-covering the whole sheet
-A4
-pattern already repeated and grouped.
-many crossings
I learned how to control a variation of the thickness of the extrusion, sothat I have some control on the resistance, and I might deform the draw(or the 3Dmesh of the draw) to get higher densities in some places that would support higher constraints; but the original density is the central question; Tests must still be made in order to start and define mathematical rules for the design; here is why we would need several designs, also with higher densities on some places(like a horizontal higher density region on one of the two lines that divide a sheet in three equal horizontal parts, for exemple: ) The purpose of it is to have a stronger wrist region for a wrist immobilisation orthosis, for exemple.
I still have to check the way to include colors to a 3D mesh for this kind of powder printing (it becomes .mtl file, linked to an .stl and the .obj allready have it included I think, but I don't think that colours pass through the conversion.)
We can think of doing ...everything in fact(with high-tech machines).
But to start, that seems the right way to do it.
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Ok, I think that's clear enough. I can't speak for everyone, but if we have to have some back and forth discussions about individual files, I'm glad to do that. And maybe I can get some files ready pretty soon. Simple tiled ones (repeated patterns) would not take very long, because we have a tiled clone mechanisim in Inkscape. Once you have all the variables set properly, the tiling happens in 1 click! Completely random designs would take a bit longer.
Oh, actually I do have a couple more questions. For the many crossovers. Does it need to be a single path, that crosses over itself many, many times? Or can there be any number of paths? I've never used Blender, so I'm not sure about that. Also, does the path width matter?
And for the 3d printing, are there just 2 depths - the top, and the bottom.....how can I say that better? ....I need to make a screenshot. I'll be right back :D
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Nevermind. For a minute I was thinking how to depict in 3d, but I guess Blender will do that part. You just need the paths.
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:idea2: spirograms!! ;-D
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The width of the line matters: it will have an influence on the weight, the resistance, the prize ... and the aesthetic.
For now, I can only state the observation that with the powder printing, it seems that it is strong enough to support the constraints, even with so many holes in it.
We still have to make tests and to confirm the possibility to make some strong enough with the Fused Deposition Modeling(FDM) technique.
I like the oriental abstract geometrical art, and I love to draw mandalas,if somebody feel like collaborate about that, I might send hand-drawn mandalas and ask if it is possible to get a plain .svg clean version of it.
This one is assymetric, I make symetrical ones too. What matters will be to cover the whole sheet.
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I enjoy drawing mandalas as well. Or maybe "circular drawings" would better describe it. You can see my "round things" album, in our gallery http://inkscapecommunity.com/ic_gallery/thumbnails.php?album=15. And yes, I can probably vectorize a raster drawing by hand, if that's what you mean.
Although I did have the impression that mandalas were usually round. That's a nice drawing, but not round at all. Maybe there's another definition of "mandala" that I'm not familiar with.
As far as your comment about the line width mattering, do you mean that all the lines need to have the same width? Or do you want lines with variable widths?
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Ok, so this is just a first try. Not a true paisly design, but basic units are 2 overlapping paisly units. There are quite a few variations of this I plan on making, if it's anywhere near what you want. I would guess there aren't enough "crossovers", so one of the variations will be to just make smaller units, or a denser pattern. Another variation would be to make the individual units fancier, with little borders or more intricate design
One thing I'm not clear on though. Do you need the edges connected? The pattern units overlap the edges of the page quite a lot, so I just clipped it to the page size for now. But if there needs to be a path around the page (to add more crossover/connections, that's easy enough to do.
Also, just a PNG example, until I understand more what you want.
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Thank you, good job!
This coud serve to print in titanium.
For other materials there must be thicker lines, more black.
Thin lines will result very fragile, try and think more about making white holes inside a black plain material and less on joining lines in the emptyness.
Well something equilibrated between these two concepts would be perfect : )
You are right about mandalas, I kept the term when I began to make asymetric ones, and then this kind of messy ones in opposition to the regular figurative cartoon drawing : D If you give me an email adress, I can send you more(real ones) When you say rasterise, it means convert from pixels to vectors?
I ll love to see if it is achievable through Inkscape, this summer, probably.
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When I say "vectorise" I mean taking a raster image, like the drawings you attached, and making it vector (SVG). It is definitely achievable with Inkscape. Depending on the precision you need, maybe it could even be an automated process (Path menu > Trace Bitmap) http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Trace.html. Otherwise, someone with my experience could trace it "manually" using inkscape tools in a couple of hours. Or maybe several hours, if you have never used inkscape.
In a couple of clicks, I can make those lines thicker..... Although that particular design, with simply wider strokes, it loses whatever charm it might have had.
But now that I know that, I have a better idea what to do. If I hit on something you like, let me know and I can send the SVG file. You said Plain SVG, right?
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Ok, we are approaching, the thickness is right, we just need more and smaller patterns.
The design should be small enough to limitate the over pressure on certain parts of the skin.
I definitely have to learned to copy my mandalas through Inkscape...Did you ever do some? Do you have advices for repeating the patterns(I kept the page explaining the centric reproduction sent by Lazur)
If you send me a plain.svg of your drawings(it must be plain svg), I can make the manipulation in 3D and show you the result.
[attachment[/attachment]
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Ok, I don't know if anyone else noticed, but this topic went missing for a little while today. The culprit was Gauthier's last attachment, and I had to delete it, to get the topic showing again. While I don't have any limits on attachments for the forum, apparently our host has some limits. I think it's around 3000 pixels, when the problems start, just for future reference. I'm not sure if that can be increased or not, but I'll ask. And meanwhile, Gauthier, could you give us a smaller version of that JPG?
Ok, we are approaching, the thickness is right, we just need more and smaller patterns.
The design should be small enough to limitate the over pressure on certain parts of the skin.
I'm still working on patterns. I guess I tend to work a little more slowly than most Inkscape users. What do you mean about "limitate the over pressure"? I guess that's probably a typo, but I can't figure out if it should be "imitate" or something about "limits". In either case, I'm not sure about "over pressure". Will this pattern be in contact with the skin? I always thought the part of a prosthesis that connects to the patients body had to be smooth, and fairly soft.
I definitely have to learned to copy my mandalas through Inkscape...Did you ever do some? Do you have advices for repeating the patterns(I kept the page explaining the centric reproduction sent by Lazur)
Well, I've just noticed that I enjoy drawing round symmetrical things. I'm not sure why :-S I'm not really familiar with what traditional mandalas are supposed to be. Whatever I have in my "round things" album are what I think are the best. But there might be 1 or 2 that I haven't uploaded yet.
What kind of advice about repeating patterns do you need? That's such an open ended question, it could take a long time to answer. But if you have questions that are a little more specific, it would help. I'm not sure what page from Lazur you're talking about.
Maybe I can get one file ready to attach tonight. But I still have a lot of ideas to work on. Now that I understand better about what you need, I have to sort of re-think the other ideas I had. Anyway, still working :D
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Ok, this design came from the other one, just duplicated, flipped, realigned, and black fill added. PNG attached so you don't have to download the SVG if it's not right yet.
You'll see that the design is actually bigger than the A4 doc size, and that I used Clipping to make it the right size. However, if the design needs to stop at the page border, without using clipping, I'll have to do some more work on it. Just let me know.
And I'm still working on some better designs :D
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Ok, this just a PNG, for now. I'm thinking if the design was maybe 50% smaller, would work better? Or other comments, how to improve?
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2nd attachment - same thing except with the fill rule changed. I still think better much reduced scale.
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And here's another variation on the same theme. Just showing PNG for now, until I find out if you need the edges "finished" or if clipping is ok. As you can see, the page size will need to be adjusted, if you wanted to tile this whole A4 doc. But that can be done, if necessary.
I guess it kind of reminds me of the pattern you see on....Idk, something like steel plating, or something like that. For some reason, I think of seeing it on big trucks or fire engines, but not sure why I think that.
Anyway, I could probably get more out of that 1 pattern, but I'm ready to move on, for now :D
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Ok, I try and finish my processing of the scan for the upper amputed limb(above elbow) and then I'll ask you if you want to send me some of these-lines with a variable thickness wil result having the strongness of the thiner part-
I wish I had a more powerfull computer, as this one crashes when working on heavy scans...
That will do for the first trials though.
I appreiate your work and hope to be able to try it on the 3D scan soon(maybe tonight),-would be faster through a regular plain .svg-but as I would have to duplicate it and merge sevral together, I might aswell start from your png : )
g.
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No, the SVG file I attached IS a Plain SVG file!
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Maybe that the site does not support .svg files because here it says they are .png. But do not worry, it is easy to convert.
I finally achieved to do what I needed for the scan file(I know it lools pretty simple, but I had to find out how to cut the edges, fill a big nasty hole and smooth the mesh). There will only be one or two more details before the final version, but I can already try to set your pattern. I'll show you afteward.
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Nnearly ok, Do you recognise your design.
I'm working on these imperfections on the side.
It will do soon : )
Sorry to ask so much, but if you can repeat more smaller patterns that should help, and you were right, I'll have to cut some parts but it will be easier to make it afterwe-ards in the 3D(to see were to cut)
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No, the Plain SVG file is there. Maybe you didn't notice it because SVG files do not show a thumbnail. Look, it's just above the PNG image, in my reply, msg #17.
The name of the file is "pai1-4p.svg" and it's preceded by a tiny paper clip icon. I put the PNG image there for convenience, in case some people didn't want to download the SVG. But the SVG file is there.
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I got it-This one is a bit charged(will cost more materia-, if you feel like sending whiter ones, you're welcome-
I shoud be able to send you scans of a book about the muslims mathematical designs(with the steps of constructions) around the beginning of May.
Do you think it can help with Inkscape?
Are you interested? I wish I had more time to draw beautifull curvy smoothy mandalas, but I have plenty works to give to the school, and I still have one or two things to clarify with Blender...
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If the designs have a public domain license, I would be glad to manually trace or auto-trace some. But being in a book, it's likely they are copyrighted.
Or with a book that gives the steps for drawing a certain kind of design.... Wow! ....I'm not sure.... I'll be glad to read it, for sure. But there's no guarantee I will be able to catch on. I only think of myself as marginally artistic. Mostly I enjoy the creative process, and sometimes my drawings turn out looking nice. So I can agree to try it. But whether I can actually draw things like that, I can't promise will happen. I'd say if there are steps to follow, is in my favor. And if the math is fairly simple, or can be done on the Windows calculator, I should be able to handle it. I do enjoy math, so that's in my favor too. And I do know Inkscape pretty well. But we won't know whether I can put it all together, until I try it.
Actually, Lazur's good with "mathematical art". He made these fractal designs using the Fibonacci spiral: https://inkscape.org/en/~Lazur. Or if you can share the info on the forum (rather then email) anyone might like to give it a try :D
But meanwhile, I'll work on some designs that are more balanced with positive/negative space. As I said, I work pretty slowly with Inkscape. Maybe I could take one of your JPGs and work up a pattern from parts of them?
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Just one last thing, in order to try ad create a design that goes around the whole object without linkage, it would be helpfull if it is possible to get the .svg file already made sothat the left and right borders(as the upper and lower) can fold on each other without having to squeeze the sheet. It might be interesting to have a tiny bit more than the exact junction, in order to get a solid linkage, but what matters is that the lines can cover themselves, at the same lattitude or longitude. I guess that some parameters in the program might influence this question.
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....it would be helpfull if it is possible to get the .svg file already made sothat the left and right borders(as the upper and lower) can fold on each other without having to squeeze the sheet. It might be interesting to have a tiny bit more than the exact junction, in order to get a solid linkage, but what matters is that the lines can cover themselves, at the same lattitude or longitude.
Aahh, more of the info I was trying to get in the beginning. But I'm not completely clear what you're saying. "....can fold on each other without having to squeeze the sheet."?? I can't quite sort that out. Are you saying you essentially want the A4 size image to be tile-able? So that when you line them up, side to side and top to bottom that you can't see where one sheet ends the the next begins?
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I might try another technique in order to avoid the linkage problem-see bottom hole-I ll try it and tell you if it has consequences on the pattern design, but fot he technique that we are speaking of, it is exactly as if you print the draw on a sheet and that you wrap it, in some cases, you will be able to connect the lines easily, while the sheet stands on a desk, with a thin coverment of one side by the other, in other cases, you will have to wrap it more to get the same , well, in any case it works sothat it should not matter much if there are enough patterns
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I'm sorry, I still don't understand "wrap" or "linkage". I think it might be possible to do what you want. But I still don't understand what you're asking. So maybe not possible.
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Do not worry about that, try and wrap a sheet of paper around your arm, sothat both sides of a drawing would connect to each other. I do the same with the 3D.
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Oooh, now I understand! That's essentially the same thing as I was saying, although not exactly.
I'm thinking if it tapers at the bottom, like in your last attachment, that will make it much more difficult, for the edges to match. Certainly, one side would not necessarily match to the same pattern unit on the other side. You'd have to do some custom work in those areas. (Or whoever is doing the drawing) You couldn't place the drawing just anywhere, as I'm thinking. The pattern or drawing would have to fit to the precise area on the prosthesis as it's designed for.
And certainly that could be done! I think the best way to do that, would be if you could provide a flat, 2d shape. As if you were "unrolling" the pattern from around the "arm" shape. Because I might not be talented enough to be able to make the linkage by estimating (either in my mind or on the canvas) where the edges need to fit each other. If I could have a flat shape, that would be much better. I don't suppose Blender could do that? Or do you actually start with a flat shape, so that it already exists?
Honestly, I don't see any problem with this, as long as we can acquire the exact, and actually, for the best result, the precise shape that the pattern needs to fit on. That way, the design could be made to fit perfectly. And now, with this new requirement, we realize that non-repeating patterns (or at least non-symmetric patterns), or completely abstract patterns would work better. But still could be done with a repeating pattern, except it will be distorted in the areas where the edges meet.
(However, for the "big picture" as they say, this will make the process of designing prosthesis in this way, much more customized, and much less automatic.)
Actually, in thinking about this flat shape, it reminds of making clothing, which I learned to do at a very young age. You start a big length of fabric, and several paper pattern pieces. The paper pieces are used as a template to cut out the fabric pieces, and then sew the fabric pieces together. So I know a lot about what this flat shape is going to look like.....although I think we will still need the precise shape that fits this person and this prosthesis, and only this one. Here, it should look something like the attached quick sketch. Right?
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This is the technique I use for the moment, I ll try to find out wether there is a better and easier way to do it.
Pulling the whole drawing from bottom to top could do, I'll try, and ask on the blender forum too, because applying a texture doesn't allow to go to a 3D with it.
It is funny that what I do in 3D and what you suggest is the technique that is materially used to create orthosis coverment with leather, or foams.
The questions remains exactly the same. Here's why I might give you several shapes like the one you draw for several specific parts(ankle-foot-orthosis and so on)
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Ooohh, it looks like Blender makes the pattern or the drawing at different "scales" depending on what it's covering. What I mean is that at the lower part, where the arm is narrower, and appears almost to go to a....well, a rounded point, the pattern has a smaller scale. (edit - or maybe that's a leg?) The lines are thinner, and the units are smaller and closer together. Where up at the shoulder, where it has more volume, the pattern seems to be a larger scale (lines a little wider, units larger, etc.
I had not expected that would happen! In my mind, I was thinking the pattern is laid on the surface and looks the same, no matter what shape or volume it's covering. So if the scale of the drawing will be variable, depending on.....I'll call it the volume, since I don't know the proper words. If the volume is larger, the drawing scale is larger, and if the volume is smaller, the scale of the drawing is smaller.
What that means, is that it will be easier to make the lines meet at the edges! It still will need custom tweaking, but not as much. That won't necessarily be true for all body parts. But in the upper arm, that will make it easier.
One thing I'm still not clear about. When it's finished, will the surface be smooth? I guess that's what you mean when you say it's not possible to make the texture 3d? However, I'm not sure that's true. It seems to me like I've seen renderings from Blender with textured surfaces....maybe I'll search around and try to find examples.....
Ok then, I'll keep on working on some better drawings. I might have some tesselations that I made a long time ago. And I still want to try some patterns with spirograms. They won't be able to be very intricate, as spirograms can be. But some simpler ones should tile easily. And I'll wait to hear from you about those other designs :D
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Blender images with 3d texture. There are lots, these just 3.
http://archive.blender.org/index.php@eID=tx_cms_showpic&file=uploads%252Fpics%252Fdea.jpg&width=800m&height=600m&bodyTag=%253Cbody%20style=%2522margin%253A0%3B%20background%253A%23fff%3B%2522%253E&wrap=%253Ca%20href=%2522javascript%253Aclose%28%29%3B%2522%253E%20%257C%20%253C%252Fa%253E&md5=3e43e8950be537f7cc5d5e48e5bf2610.html
http://www.blendernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/gravity-02_signed-351x185.jpg
http://www.blendernation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/coffee-728x336.jpg
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Question: Do the pages have to be A4 size exactly, for some reason? If I wanted to stretch or shrink the page size, so that it contains only whole pattern units, would that be ok? It would usually be anything up to 100 px, larger or smaller, in either direction. Otherwise we have to make our pattern units the same proportion as the a4 page, if we want the edges to match up. For example the pattern unit would have to be 74.41 x 105.23 px, or 37.20 x 52.61 px, etc. (I can't remember the mathematical term for what I'm trying to say....it's something like multiples, but not exactly....well maybe that's right....??)
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No problem with the size of the sheet. only a bit more confortable for me if the number of patterns is enough(I'd rather substract than add)
I got other techniques for the sticking of the draw on the meh, I'll try it this afternoon; and they explained me why there were still defaults.
If it is Ok, I should be able to print afterwards, but will ask for a advice from the prosthesist I'm working with, for the anatomical questions(push here, pull there)
See you : )
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Here's something a little different, still using the single "paisley" unit. This large PNG (I hope not too large :b1:) shows the basic pattern and how it looks with 3 different wider stroke widths. The large red rectangle shows the A4 page size. All I've done is simply change the stroke width on these (relative to the basic pattern at 1 px stroke width). Let me know and I can provide the Plain SVG file for whichever one you want :D
However, there are several other ways to achieve designs in which the positive space and negative space are balanced, besides varying the stroke width. Next I'll try some other ideas for that aspect. Well, actually I want to try offsetting the columns, and after I post that, I'll try the different ways to achieve positive/negative balance. :D
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Here's the other pattern. I like it better.
After this, I'll try something else besides wider strokes.
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Ok, well I didn't like how it turned out, when I used a different technique. I may come up with some other ideas later. But for that pattern, I think stroke width is the best way to go.
So here's a whole new kind of pattern. Let me know if you'd like a Plain SVG file and I'll get one ready. The A4 page is shown with the red rectangle. But this pattern is square, and that border is shown with the blue square line.
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Thank you, it is nice.
plain .svg are welcome of course.
I started to use a bit the program but spent the day installing and learning Mudbox. which might be used aswell.
I'll try and find a moment to recreate such kind of drawings in vectors. It would be better for orthetics divided in two parts, in order to avoid the line that should join the two sides which does not correspond.
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Ok, here are a couple of Plain SVG files.
In pai2-1p.svg are 3 layers. In layer 1 and 2 are the patterns for which I posted PNGs. In layer 3 isn't really anything. Just where I'm still experimenting. So there are 2 patterns in that 1 file. If you need them in separate files, can you do that yourself?
In ptn1-1p.svg is just 1 layer and 1 pattern. I'll probably work on it some more, but I'll make a separate Plain SVG file for that, if anything comes out of it.
The edges aren't finished in these, in any way. And it's still not clear to me whether clipping is sufficient, or whether you need the edges finished in some way (such as you need the paths to match, not just the edge of the clipping path). In any case, if clipping is sufficient, you can use that red rectangle as the clipping path, to achieve the a4 size document -- EXCEPT
As we discussed needing the edges to meet, in ptn1-1p.svg, if you clip the pattern with the blue square, the edges will meet!
In pai2-1p.svg, in layer 1, on the pattern version indicated to have a 12 px wide stroke, I fixed the red rectangle so that if you use it to clip that pattern, the pattern will repeat (edges will meet)....although it won't be the a4 size anymore. (Also note that it no longer has any stroke - that's just how I presented the PNGs.) Also note that when I was aligning the red rectangle properly for this, I noticed some small distortions in certain places of the pattern. I know how to fix that -- ideally, I would start back over from scratch. If you were to decide to use this in the final design, it would be no problem for me, to do that. But if this is just for practice, it should suffice, as is.
For the design in layer 2, the version indicated as 15 px stroke width, I fixed the red rectangle on that one, so that if you use it for the clipping path, the design will repeat/edges meet.
Also, for for the future, it's going to be too much work for me to make a finished plain SVG file with a clipping path set up to allow for repeating patterns, for every single example I've been thinking of making. I need to you to look at the designs and decide whether you want a plain SVG file for it. Then I will be glad to make a nice finished file, for just a few designs, in the end.
And for these, I did them very quickly, and they aren't in any way ready for any "final run". But if you do want any of these for the final version, let me know, and I can get them ready. Meanwhile, these should give you something to practice with.
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I don't know why but i got a strange result into Blender with the first I used, after repeating the whole image stick it four times and convert it, half of the draw had inverted the black and withe, and the junction between the black on withe and white on black was a curve that did not seem to correspond to anything within the manipulations...
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It would be easier with more patterns
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I like your design very much and will try another technique today to avoid some problems of shrinking large triangles that can not be deformed and applied.
But I noticed that this design had a tiny hole repeated in each pattern, which may result in a problem for the printing.
I think that closing the edges of the lines might resolve the problem of the program inverting the black and white. I don't know how to do it, but it sems like Blender understands the limits but not where there should be black and where white.
If you feel like telling me a few tips about how to create such repeated patterns by myself, I could try and work on it.
Thank you for your kind help,
Gauthier(Belgium)
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Hi Gauthier,
Sorry for the delay. I'm usually pretty scarce on Thursdays.
I don't know why but i got a strange result into Blender with the first I used, after repeating the whole image stick it four times and convert it, half of the draw had inverted the black and withe, and the junction between the black on withe and white on black was a curve that did not seem to correspond to anything within the manipulations...
I recognize parts of an earlier pattern I made, in your last attachment. But a lot of those orange lines just look random.
If you manipulated the nodes at all, without being familiar with vector paths, it could easily cause the problem with the positive swapping places with the negative. And that extra curve piece too, depending on what you did. What do you mean by "stick it 4 times"? Do you mean you are tiling the whole page 4 times? Are you doing any node editing, to connect them? I could just make the design that large, in the first place. Also, what are you converting it to?
I have discovered a problem with my basic "paislely" unit, which could probably cause that extra curve shape. I can't be sure unless you can point to where it lies, on the design, in the SVG file. I fixed one or 2 places in one of the last SVG files I made for you, but it probably occurs in every single iteration, to varying degrees.
In these designs, I've been focusing on just producing different patterns that are balanced positive to negative -- just making different designs. I haven't paid much attention to making a correct or well-finished, or....I guess you could say conservative design. There are extra nodes all over the place, double or triple nodes stacked up, and in one place, this issue that could be causing that extra curve piece you mentioned. But when (or if) we hit on a design that you want to use in the 3d printer, then I'll probably recreate it from scratch, so I can minimize these anomalies.
If it would be helpful, I could create a correctly finished file, for you to practice with. I had not thought about it before, because I'm not familiar with Blender. But I suppose Blender could theoretically be confused with these extra nodes, etc. To some degree, they cannot be avoided, because of how Inkscape behaves when you use Stroke to Path. But I can fix them, for a few nicely finished files, but I can't do that for every single pattern I make. I could probably make the design using the Tiled Clones. But when I "unclone" them, I think Inkscape does the same thing, with making extra nodes, etc.
Anyway, let me know if you want 1, nicely finished file, to practice with. Just tell me which pattern.
It would be easier with more patterns
A couple of those last patterns I made are a smaller scale, and therefore, more units, if that's what you mean. In Reply #38 and #39 are smaller than the previous patterns. In Reply #40, I could easily make it smaller.
But I noticed that this design had a tiny hole repeated in each pattern, which may result in a problem for the printing. .....
If you feel like telling me a few tips about how to create such repeated patterns by myself, I could try and work on it.
Thank you for your kind help,
Gauthier(Belgium)
Yes, the design in Reply #38, the 10 px wide stroke version, there's a tiny hole that's repeated. That's why I made the 12 px wide stroke version, and the 15 px wide stroke also does not have that hole. Oh yes, and the design in Reply #40 has the small hole. If it's a different design that has that kind of hole in it, it can probably be avoided too. I just need to know which one you're talking about, to be able to fix it.
Well, I would have to know about your skill level with Inkscape, to begin to know what kind of tips will help you. If you don't know Inkscape at all, it would take too long to write out how to do it. I would suggest starting with some tutorials. That seems to be the fastest way to gain basic skills. I think the ones in the Quick Start section of the manual are the best for that. http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/QuickStart.html But there are plenty of other tutorials around. I've collected what I think are the best ones on our Inkscape Tutorials page, which is the Home tab.
Also, note that there are several ways to approach making repeated patterns like this. The technique I use might not necessarily be comfortable for someone else. So learning Inkscape on your own will allow you to develop your own techniques.
Or if you have an idea about the kind of pattern you want, show me some examples, and I can try to make it. Or those mathematical mandala designs you mentioned, I'll be glad to try that.
All best :D
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Hello Brynn,
The one I prefere is the Pai1-3 that I first tested.
It looks random because of the transparency and the deformation., but it I can achieve the application, which passes through another operation, in order to have more divisions and a better 'softness', then it should look like on paper but on the shape with just some stretching.
Yes, I need some learning time by myself, it is not lazyness, I started to write my final work and have one month, even less.
but I'll be glad doing that whith the school in the back : )
For the mathematical mandalas we ll have to wait for the friend that carries the book, I'm glad you ask. The patterns I like, well I got this free puzzle pattern, and the friend for who I do this part created an NGO called puzzle asbl(because it goes about amputees matters), but the one I got is very thin. Wait, I send it for you, sothat you can see if you can change the width of the lines..
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I think this is it,
...well more parts would be needed: /
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I think this is it,
...well more parts would be needed: /
A simple puzzle pattern can be made quickly with a few tricks.
Maybe article worthy?
Not sure if that pattern would be good for the structure though.
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The one I prefere is the Pai1-3 that I first tested.
It looks random because of the transparency and the deformation.
Is this the one with the hole in it? Or the one you want a nice finished file for practice? What do you mean by transparency? All the patterns I've made have transparency.
....but it I can achieve the application, which passes through another operation, in order to have more divisions and a better 'softness', then it should look like on paper but on the shape with just some stretching.
I didn't understand that.
Re the puzzle pattern, yes, that looks like it might even have been made with an extension of Inkscape. I haven't seen that extension, but I guess it might be possible to set it to draw more and smaller pieces. I think I know the website where it can be downloaded. But I could also use that file to make the strokes wider.
I guess using the puzzle pattern would be symbolic, as a pattern for a prosthesis? When I think of puzzle piece, I think of autism, because a puzzle piece is the logo for an organization about autism. But yes, I could make those wider, smaller, and more numerous. Or just use Lazur's puzzle3.svg file.
In fact, you could use Lazur's puzzle3.svg file, and do it yourself. I can tell you in a few steps:
-- Select the drawing with Selection tool.
-- Object menu > Fill and Stroke > Stroke Style tab > Width (adjust the width of the strokes)
-- Path menu > Stroke to Path
-- Save As Plain SVG
That's it! However, as I mentioned before, Inkscape inserts all kinds of extra, uneeded nodes, double nodes, sometimes 4, 6, 8 nodes, all stacked on 1 point, when you use Stroke to Path. It's really unfortunate. But those are the things that I would fix before giving you a final file. So if you widen the stroke yourself, and either don't want to, don't have time, or can't fix those node issues, I could do it for you. Or I could do the whole thing.
Just let me know what you need :D
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http://www.orfit.com/en/static-hand-splints/
This is the answer to the patron question, very usefull for me; although the virtual modelisation allows a cleaner work, these shapes will help, if you feel like, I can send a single pic of each 'patron'. I could in certain way avoid to integrate these shapes imediately inside the pattern design, but it might aswell have an interest, in the case of several hole that might like to have a correspondance of design. It is worth to try, I guess.
Thanks for the tip, I got the lines wider and like the concept, although it might indeed stay fragile if it is to keep the hole in shape of a puzzle part..
I was refering to the first svg that you sent me, the one that you can see on the pic, with the colours, this one is well balanced, a bit surprising in its shapes, very good indeed : )
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Ok, I'm a little confused in which files we're discussing which issue. You said the one you like best so far is pai1-3. I never sent an SVG of that, but you must have somehow derived it from the PNG. But I can make an SVG for you, nice and clean, to practice with.
Is pai1-3 the one you said that has a tiny, repeating hole in it?
.... although it might indeed stay fragile if it is to keep the hole in shape of a puzzle part..
Maybe not, if you made the stroke wide enough....although I guess after a certain point, those small, round, inward and outward parts (there probably is a word for those, but I don't know what it might be) get pinched so much they would just be small holes. As I said before, I haven't see that attachment, but I'm guessing it allows you to set a certain size for the puzzle piece as well as for the outer dimensions. So you could make it with smaller pieces. I'll try to find it.
Ok, for the last 5 attachments -- the first one, I'm not sure what to do with it. But the last 4, those are the flat pieces I was asking for, right!?
I can get the shape from those attachments. However, it would probably be better to have the life-size shapes, to achieve the best precision. Well, that's assuming that these are the same shapes you will use for the prosthetics. If those are the exact shapes you're going to use for the prosthetic, then the life size shape would be better. But if these are just a generalized shape, it might not matter so much. And I guess you would have a MRI or CATscan of each person's body parts. So I guess these are just general shapes, right?
After I made the first design (pai1-3) you had said to think more in a different direction, more like holes in a solid sheet. But I can go back to that kind of swirly type of design or pattern. Although as you can see, I work pretty slowly. I'm still having fun with this "paisley unit". But the spirograms could be swirly. We'll see what I can do next :D
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Hey, before I re-make pai1-3, if you would like the pattern to be larger or smaller, now is the time to say!
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many many patterns, always, I can easily cut inside afterwards.
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Besides making new patterns, I'm re-making pai1-3, exactly as it is, except with a cleaner file. (to avoid any potential issues with Blender) This would be a good time to change the size (more but smaller patterns, or fewer but larger). Would you like the pattern units any different size?
I don't know what you mean about "cut inside afterwards".
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Yes, more and smaller patterns will help; an outer line to close the edges should normally help avoiding the black and white entrance conflict, because I think that the program writes the curves without plain or empty, and then chooses wether the black should enter between these two or those two other curves, which is funny because it achieves filling but by two different entries, resulting in this mixed answer(both normal and inverted filling, separated by a curved lined, appeared out of nowhere).
Cutting afterwards means that, whenever the program achieves to understand where the black and white goes, between the curves, I have to convert it to a mesh anyway, and maybe re-mesh it on a different plane precut in small squares(knife project tool in Blender), if there is a risk to have too big triangles resulting in a 'stiff' material to apply (I'll send you a screenshot); the mesh format has the filling integrated sothat I can edit it and cut through it before or after applying it n the shape; this step has to be done anyway to draw the limits of the prosthetic socket, except maybe with the 'patrons' I sent, but I still have to try it, because we have been making Imediate Fitting(IMF) at school and there is nearly always a overlap and pasting on each other part, which I want to avoid to get a nice design(without the overlap of patterns).
The puzzle pattern won't be understandable if the lines go thicher than this, and here it seems me too empty to ensure the resistence of the printed part sothat I can not use it. If there is a simple way to have larger attachment curves for the same puzzle parts size, then maybe coud it do. Another option is to fill entire parts, 1 on two, just keeping enough of the lines to have the junction, this might be beautifull, with many small puzzle parts.
I dedicate myself understanding and explaining the printing techniques that can be used for that purpose, I can send it to you when finished if you feel like reading about it. I'd like to thank you in some way : ).
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Yes, more and smaller patterns will help; an outer line to close the edges should normally help avoiding the black and white entrance conflict, because I think that the program writes the curves without plain or empty, and then chooses wether the black should enter between these two or those two other curves, which is funny because it achieves filling but by two different entries, resulting in this mixed answer(both normal and inverted filling, separated by a curved lined, appeared out of nowhere).
Regarding closing the edges with a sort of frame around the design -- yes, that will help to avoid the positive and negative seeming to swap places. But won't that put a straight line along the length of the prosthetic? That's why I was asking for the flat shape. With the flat shape, I can make the edges meet, and that should solve that problem. However I would need the shape for the person's unique body part.
I guess Blender can take the 2d SVG path, and extrude it to 3d. But can it go the other way? You must be giving Blender something that starts out 2d. Could that be used to fit the pattern to the custom flat shape?
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And one more thing. A while ago, you said something about "stick it 4 times". If that means that you're putting together 2 x 2 tiling of the A4 pages together, it would leave less room for error if I just make the design that large to begin with.
If that's not what you meant, then nevermind. But let me know if it is, so I can make them larger. (The pattern would be the same size, just more repetitions.)
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RE: mandala
Looking great!
But maybe repeating it would ruin the symbolism/hierarchy.
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The outside edge will not create a line, in the way I use it, and whiwh actually is a bit a useless complication that could be easily avoided accepting to create juste a little full part at the bottom(and which is actually needed to attach the rest of the prosthetic, In order to avoid any division line, I have to deform the mesh all around the shape, as you would do with a tissu around, let's say, a umbrella's grip. There was a connexion problem in the model with colours, but this should be easy to avoid, wraping just a bit more.
The mandala is just joy, please feel free to use it the way you like.
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Here is a dotty pattern, made with cloning
What is the desirable size of the base pattern? I guess it was already mentioned before somewhere.
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At first he said A4 page. But with that requirement, then the pattern could only be the same proportion. So now, I think he needs a4 or larger.
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I drew those on an A4 template, with the base pattern being 15 mm/15 mm. I meant the base pattern size in that sence -the smallest parts without repeating.
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A small 'gift' for you both; you do a great job!
http://tvb-design.com//sites/all/applications/Perforator/index.html
The program has been made by Thomas, a young talented man here in Brussels, you could like it ; )
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Nice!
:hmm: Put's me in a mind that we need another section on this website, for resources like this.....including.....a collection of links to Inkscape extensions which are not in the Extensions Repository (http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/ExtensionsRepository).....like that jigsaw puzzle extension. Hhmmmm......
Edit
Oh, sorry Lazur, I misread your question. He hasn't given any size for the base pattern. But it sounds like he might favor a fairly large size. The base pattern on the one he said he liked is.....without looking it up, I'd say 300 to 400 px2. The most important factor seems to be the size of the "holes" and that there not be any areas that would be weak spots when printed, such as narrow lines. The stroke width that seems to work is 10 to 15 px, if that's how the design is made. And also, it needs to be balanced as far as positive and negative space.
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Oohhh, look what I found: http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/tiles.svg
With this, we can create an entirely random (as far as I can tell) assymetrical, yet tileable design. If it produces any closed circles, we can click on the page, and that area gets re-drawn. Or you can click "rebuild" and draw a new design. When the design is how we like it, we can save the SVG, make the stroke wider, stroke to path, save as plain svg, and done.
Not exactly "pretty", but random and assymetrical. It looks like about the scale we need, although a little too large. But that can be fixed once we have it in Inkscape.
Anyway, I just stumbled on it, and thought I'd mention it :D
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Time to learn a french expression: 'n'importe quoi' : D lol
If the program I sent you does not export(it gets stuck with middle and heavy images), you can just make a screenshot and use it for a conversion in inkscape.
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There are settings in the tiled clones option you can use to generate the same.
Xav just recently covered it (http://www.inkscapeforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11981#p44296) in full circle magazine (http://dl.fullcirclemagazine.org/issue96_en.pdf).
n'importe quoi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGcv_er8qO4)
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Just saw a tv news story on this: http://www.5280prosthetics.com/smartpuck/ I don't know if it could fit in the kind of prosthesis you're making, but just fyi. Looks interesting :D
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Thank you, this is very interesting. I'll try and find the time to enter further into this technology. Until now I had only seen an automatic motorised decompression system that does not include several options. I'm not very found of I-phones but the principle is great.
Sorry for the last message, I've been thinking a bit to it and, although I did not read the article, this principle may be usefull through further developpement(a kind of ready-made 'arborescence' that can lead through a personal design only through choosing between several options.
This picture shows another design principle that I finally achieved to do on blender(it is simple, but I did not find it immediately) I allows certain control of the dimension of the holes, and total control with just a bit more manipulations(and perhaps a paying add-on for Blender: Polystrips) There still some practicing to improve on the 'correction' of the shape, but it works and is printable. Sorry if I do not work much on the integration of the design for a few weeks: I have to write this final work to get the diploma, but will come back for sure to you, after some learning of Inkscape probably, in the beginning of july: )
sorry for the delayed answer, and thank you for the video, this guy is so funny, I had seen other videos from him but not this one. As a vegetarian and ex-vegan, I liked especially the one where he's desguised as a pig and throwing chips on a butcher lol.
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No worries about delays. As I've mentioned, I do work slowly.
I have a much better version of the design you liked, with nodes reduced from 2429 to 1433! (And a new bug report as well :@@:) I still don't know much about how Blender uses these designs, but potentially having such a very conservative file should make the chances for any odd pattern glitches much less likely. I'm planning to add at least 1 more design to that file, so that's why I haven't uploaded it for you yet. It will be the same design but just at a smaller scale.
If you like that triangle pattern in your last attachment, you should try the new Voronoi/Delany triangulation extension. I thought Lazur had attached one on the first page of this thread, but I can't seem to find it. I must be thinking of another topic. Or maybe I'll just make one and put it in this new file. Here's an exmple of what it looks like: https://inkscape.org/en/gallery/item/4190/ (although I think there's plenty of options for changing the scale, number, etc of triangles).
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Still on 0.48, probably that was just a link to new feature notes. But looking at that last attachment, it seems totally unnecessary -there is a workaround to make that 3D "mesh" from a plain simple mesh -similarly as extruding the edges.
Speaking of delayed answers, good luck to get everything on time!
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Ok, here's the design you said you liked, done 4 different ways, in the attached pai3.svg
Layer 2 - a similar scale as before, but the edges are what I call "finished. It's not clipped like the others, and I think that might have been the cause for the switching between black and white. It should behave just like you want, and why you asked for the design with a line around the edge.
But just in case you still want it with a line around the edge, Layer 2.2 has that line. And again, it's all nice and finished, no double nodes, or nodes switched between what they should be (the new bug I discovered).
Layer 2.4 is the same as layer 2, except a smaller scale. Having a smaller scale allows for the lines to be thinner, and holes to be smaller.
Layer 2.6 is the same as 2.2 (with line around the edge, except smaller scale.
I started another file with a design based on 3 of the paisley units, rather than 4. So attached also are a couple of PNGs -- same design, but one with larger scale and 1 smaller. If you like one of those designs, I'll make a finished file for you. But it's kind of a lot of work, and I'd rather not do it, unless you're sure you like it. Oh, and another design based on the 3 unit design.
(Remember that the SVG file doesn't show a preview. It's attached, Plain SVG, but you don't see the image, just a text link.)
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And another design which I think is probably not exactly what you're looking for. But just in case. (I actually enjoy this kind of work :D)
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Hello,
I finished my studies and my thesis was well receiced.
I went on studying Blender and started with Inkscape, it appears that my computer lacks power to ensure a perfect 3D model out of my technique.
Still I know how to do it and will try and multiply the designs.
I learned how to do escher's tesselations for exemple.
Glad to have had your help on the first designs.
I hope you are doing fine,
Many thanks from Brussels
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I'm always happy to try to help.
I hope you eventually find success :D
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Hi Brynn,
I finally finished my first 3D printable orthesis using your design.
Here you have a picture of it.
Thank you!
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Oh wow, look at that!!
Nice work :)
Did you give up on the mandala design?
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Sorry for the late answer.
I had given up but want to go back into this.
Therefore I would like to ask you if you know how I can offset a line(I made it with the brush).
In this case, I would like to reproduce this pattern and use the same line to duplicate it.
Thank you!
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Welcome back :)
Hhmm, Inkscape doesn't have a brush tool. If you look at the smileys when you use the full message editor (click Reply, instead of using Quick Reply) you can click the icon of the tool that you used. Then we will know which one you used.
I don't understand what you mean by "I would like to reproduce this pattern and use the same line to duplicate it." Do you mean that you want to draw one line, then duplicate and offset? And then repeat a couple more times?
Reproducing that pattern in Inkscape will not look the same. When I look closely at those lines, they are thinner in some places and thicker in others. when you do it with Inkscape, there won't be any kind of variation. Of course, there is a way to create variations like that. But it would be meticulous and detailed work.
Anyway Path menu > Inset, or Outset, or Dynamic Offset, or Linked Offset. I would suggest using Linked Offset because it's kind of like a clone. You will be able to adjust the parent, and all the Linked Offsets will be adjusted at the same time.
And if this will be used for the same thing as earlier in this topic, after you get all the paths how you want them, you'll need to use Path menu > Stroke to Path. And like I did for the other design, you'll need to do a LOT of node editing, to make it all one single path, all closed and cleaned up (as I explained before).
Also as before, I'd be glad to do that work, if it would be helpful.
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Thank you, Brynn for the fast answer.
I will present the techniques used to do the design integration within Blender on saturday.
Some members have had a formation in Inkscape.
In Blender and as in inkscape, there is A LOT of work to get a closed shape (I did this one directly within Blender)
I tried the offset on the :ct: but it did not leave any empty space between the original and the offset line.
You are very welcome to do this job, especially if you give me a tip or two on the way to achieve it :D
Nice to speak to you again!
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Well actually, I volunteered myself a little too soon. I'm having a problem with my usual mouse lately, and waiting very impatiently for support from the driver manufacturer. If they can't fix it soon, I'll have to learn to use a different kind of mouse, and that could take a while.
But, whenever I can start, you've showed 2 different images. Which one would you want a clean SVG file for? Also, does it need to be specifically, exactly like the image shown? Or can something similar work?
Typically we don't see path offsets used with the Calligraphy tool. But there's really no reason not to. I can't say for sure without seeing the SVG file, but I'm guessing it didn't leave an empty space because the Calliraphy tool draws a closed path with a fill (black by default). If you remove the fill, and add a stroke, if there's not one already, you'll see the offset better.
Although the offset might be different than you expect. Try it and you'll see.
But I would use the Pen/Bezier tool :pen:, instead of Calligraphy. Or maybe Pencil/Freehand tool :pfh:. If you want it to be as close to the first image as possible.... You know, I'd probably at least try Trace Bitmap. That might be a short route to a finished product. It will create a single closed path automatically. Sometimes TB injects some odd distortions and extra nodes. But it would be worth a try anyway.
I'll grab your image and give it a try. TB doesn't need the mouse much. Although fixing the extra nodes and odd distortions does.
Otherwise, I'd trace using Pen/Bezier tool. Or if it only needs to be similar to that design, I might experiment with different loopy ribbon/offset designs. I do remember that you need a certain "positive to negative" ratio, to help the material hold together well. I was a little surprised with that design, because it has some fairly narrow areas of positive space. We could still make them thicker, like before, if necessary.
To draw that or a similar image from scratch, there are a couple of different ways to approach it. You could draw a single path, then use Linked offset duplicates, as you were thinking. But there's another possible way to do it, using something called Pattern Along Path. You'd create a short section of the ribbon pattern. Then when you draw the paths, you don't have to duplicate and offset. You just apply the pattern to the path. http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Paths-LivePathEffects-PatternAlongPath.html
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OK, I will try that for sure soon,
Today I prepare as much as possible for the workshop,
I'll tell you how it went.
The idea to do a classic draw with pixels and then transform it into a .svg sounds good.
I achieve to merge letters together automatically within Blender; it passes through the extrusion and boolean fusion of the several letters,
which can be afterwards edited to flatten it again and so on.
There is still a loss of accuracy when I do a retopology.
The attached picture is the kind of topology that I can achieve working directly within Blender.
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Hah! That looks like a lace doily :D
I haven't had a chance to try your first design with Trace Bitmap yet, but probably later today I can.
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Here are some other images that could be used.
I will scan my own and make new ones later.
Finding the best technique to create a usable mesh is the real challenge.
The second one (B&W6) is interesting:
the repetition of radiate triangles is the what I need for mandalas that cover a wide surface; is this only a tiling with radiate and then other offset tiling? (I did not achieve it yet) ...
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Oh, those are very nice! I've started working on another project where those designs would work very well! http://forum.inkscapecommunity.com/index.php?topic=306.0 I already have several designs, nearly complete. But my mouse driver is having problems, and I'm having to use the mouse that's built in to the laptop, which is not nearly as nice as my external touchpad. So I haven't been able to do any Inkscape work lately.
Maybe some of my coloring pages would work for this prosthetics project as well? I'll upload some, as soon as I'm able to finish them.
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OK, thank you, I got some better understanding of the shortest way to pass from an image to a usable mesh:
INKSCAPE
-Object To Path (Ctrl + SHift + C)
BLENDER
-3D (Object Mode) > Add > Text
-Alt + C
-Modifier : Decimate (Planar) > Apply
-3D (Edit Mode) > Triangulate (Ctrl + T)
-Modifier : Solidify > Apply
-Modifier : Remesh (Remove Disconnected Pieces: unactive+ Change Octree Depth) > Apply
-Get rid of the thickness
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OK, thank you, I got some better understanding of the shortest way to pass from an image to a usable mesh:
INKSCAPE
-Object To Path (Ctrl + SHift + C)
If you made the drawing using Shape tools (Rectangle, Ellipse, Star, or Spiral), then Path menu > Object to Path will convert them to paths. But it will not convert JPG or any other raster image to path or vector.
So if these are your steps for converting a JPG, then Path menu > Object to Path is a wasted step. It will not affect the JPG at all.
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Hi there!
I nearly achieved a new design and a part of the method is better (making the borders).
I could work faster and cleaner (just work at all in fact) if I could merge two shapes and convert it into a single path.
Here is my problem:
Ctrl+G groups the objects and Ctrl+Shift+C converts each object into a path
but they stay separated.
Do you know how I could proceed?
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Hi.
Select all objects and add them together (Ctrl++).
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Great, it works just fine!
Of course I still have some issues with automatic functions to remesh it inside Blender,
I secretely wish I could try the Zbrush remeshers but... now that I think of it, Meshlab has plenty of different remeshers
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Have you tried the remesh (https://www.blender.org/manual/modeling/modifiers/generate/remesh.html) or the late retopo (https://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.4/Manual/Modeling/Meshes/Editing/Retopo) modifiers?
I never used those but they seem doing a good job.
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Ok I got it:
My Blender is set up for 3Dprinting in order to work in millimeters and all the importations are reduced 1000 times.
I just needed to scale the mesh, apply the scale and now the Remesh modifiers achieves easily the job.
sorry for that
I can now easily get an svg file from any black and white image, and can also tile it, in order to get an svg from the whole(make sure to cut the link between the clones and the original=Shift+Alt+D),
but there is still this same error appearing inside Blender as the other time; I do not undestand where it comes from.
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In inkscape that look is usually a rendering issue of a too intricate path. After a few thousand nodes computing the fill rule is a bit too much I guess. Like, if you convert a text to a path each character is separated and grouped together, giving a much reliable rendering than when the characters are combined.
Similarily in blender curved paths are represented by alot of small segments, maybe it's too much to handle at once.
As a "brute force" solution I would try breaking the path apart before saving as svg,
then in blender, convert each curve to mesh, then join the inner parts together, move them up a bit in z direction and
use knife project to add those as holes to the mesh -previously outer subpath.
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Sometimes Union isn't the right technique (Ctrl + +). Sometimes you might need to use Combine instead (Ctrl + K).
There is Never going to be an easy way to achieve a nice clean file, without extra nodes and disconnected nodes. That will always be the harderst part, at least in the Inskcape side of things.
I just finally got my mouse issue straightened out, so I can do that now. If you have some design you'ver created, and you just need it all cleaned up, I'll be glad to do that. But I really hesitate to clean up any design, until I'm sure that you're planning to use it -- because it's a LOT of work.
If it's going to be a repeated pattern, if you start with a very clean pattern unit, that will help. But there's still the matter of connecting the paths of the units.
Regarding screenshot 50, is that diamond shaped gap between the pattern unit not too big? It seems like it would be very weak in that area -- prone to bulging.
I made the attached design the other day....well it's been a few weeks ago, for the coloring book project I told you about. It's not cleaned up yet. And of course the squares and diamonds need to be filled in. I know it's not the pretty flowing type of design you like. But just to show you.
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Actually after a few tries, I can easily get my stl from an svg from any image, I started three of the four exemples one hour ago, and the difficult part is to clean the copyright kind of blurry text.
Only with the treshold I could also use a crapy image and get a clean svg.
i spent the weekend trying to remesh this kind of stl and this is more tricky because either it destroys the shape, either it gets really heavy, and in between it leaves some errors.
The purpose of remeshing is only to get a soft mesh that can easily adapt itself when shrinked on another mesh, and actually there is no need to have such a perfect grid as can be achieved with a remesh.
Therefore I will only make some cuts in the cery long triangles and it will do.
Thank you Lazur, the Knife project was on my list and I tried but is result being a much heavier operation than a shrinkwrap.
The error in filling the plain and empties can be resolved through redoing the vectorisation with a slightly different offset, no need to try and clean it up manually.
As for the output of this work: I have to make a cover for the magazine of the professional union of the belgian orthopedists (UPBTO), I already made four, and the topic this semester is the digitalisation...If you feel like proposing something, I'd be glad to have a nice original design as the one used the other time but there should not be this lot of repair, getting a fast and clean way to work is the only way to get this method to the public some day.
Have a nice day. I leave the 30 of this month to start working in an 'atelier' in Guadalupe, no 3D on the menu but hopefully much practice :rose:
I tried a solution to use any image, even if it is not a plain black and white; it is called TVB DESIGN and convert the picture into a buch of holes, it exports an svg(it is meant for a laser cutter), I just need to import the svg in inkscape, and merge all the curves in a single file to be able to make a mesh from it; (Ctrl ++) creates a full black square and (CtrlK) makes these empty circles... I guess I can get the result throug only using the picture and 'vectoriser le bitmap' as usual.
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Hello Brynn, Lazur and the others!
How are you doing?
Good news: I'm working as prosthetist in Guadalupe since may and restart designing orthopedical parts; the method I use is working well, and one of the latest has been printed by a friend in Belgium(see picture in attachment).
I wanted to try other options, and started making designs with text. It works but I have some difficulties trying to have all the letters attached (I can control the space between letters and lines but still).
I was wondering if in Inkscape or any other program, there was an option to create a non rectangular zone within which the text would enter.
I put the border of the ortosis before the 3D step, it helps a lot, but the design is distorted because of the variation of sizes of the limb.
I would like to avoid that making an image that anticipe the difference of diameter between the hand and the forearm especially, but if it is to add text, I would rather have if directly fitting this special shape than have to tweak it manually.
Thank you a lot for your help,
Gauthier
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Hello dears,
do you know why Inkscape does have this limit in the number of nodes that it can create without mixing the filled and empties parts?
Is there any chance to raize this number?
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Hi Gauthier,
Congratulations! I know this has been a lot of hard work, and I'm happy to see you succeed.
I'm not clearly understanding your questions. You can put text in any kind of shape. For example,
1 -- draw a circle
2 -- type some long string of text
3 -- select both
4 -- Text menu > Flow into frame
(Note that if your text is too large, or the circle too small, it won't work.)
An example in the manual: http://tavmjong.free.fr/INKSCAPE/MANUAL/html/Text-Flow.html
do you know why Inkscape does have this limit in the number of nodes that it can create without mixing the filled and empties parts?
Is there any chance to raize this number?
I don't understand that question. Is this the same question you had last time, where sometimes spaces will be empty and sometimes they are filled, depending on how the nodes are arranged?
If it's the same question as before, this will always be the part of your process which takes the longest. The only way to do it, is to look at almost each and every node, to make sure they are joined together in the right places, and there aren't any leftover end nodes. I think with very careful planning, you can minimize the problem. But I don't know of any fool-proof solution.
If this is the same question, it's not about the number of nodes. It's about whether they are joined together properly. For this kind of project, you need unbroken paths. However, there's no way to create the kind of design you need, and automatically have unbroken paths. It's just "the nature of the beast". I suppose it could be seen as a bug in Inkscape. Perhaps Inkscape could be built with better precision, but I just don't know much about programming.
Have you ever tried any CAD programs, to make these prosthesis designs? I have the impression that CAD offers better precision, but I don't really know for sure. I assume there must be an open source CAD program out there somewhere.
Hhmmm.....I wonder..... I just gave myself an idea. I'll test before I share it :)
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I had a thought that maybe using Difference instead of Union would help with this problem. Probably not, but worth a test. But before I got to testing that, I had yet another thought :b1:
In the attached file, I recreated that original design that I made before. I made it in 2 different ways. The way I made it originally is in Layer 2. In Layer 1 is the step just before we get to what's in Layer 2. I wonder if Blender can accept the drawing as in Layer 1?
In Layer 1, everything is still a stroked path. In Layer 2, I used Stroke to Path, and now it's a filled path with no stroke. But I just had the thought, that maybe Blender can accept the stroked path, and maybe it has a better way of converting it, to avoid this problem? Then Blender does the conversion instead of Inkscape.
Lazur can probably answer that as well?
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Hi.
why Inkscape does have this limit in the number of nodes that it can create without mixing the filled and empties parts?
Is there any chance to raize this number?
My guess what you are experiencing is only a rendering issue of mixing up the fill rule, usually also producing different look at different zoom levels. That doesn't alter the drawing itself, if you switch to outlines only rendering mode you can check it works all the same (Ctrl+5 twice on the numpad).
For fitting the text into shape, once you convert it to a single path you may try the envelope lpe or the (pre)0.92's lattice deformation lpe.
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Hello!
The 'parametric' CAD software as Solidworks (not sure FreeCad too) can achieve a clean use of a vector texture to extrude it. I did it on a cylinder (must remember how, but it was easy)
Therefore, it would indeed be the best way to do the thing, BUT the difficulty here is to convert a scan into a fully functional 'parametric' file: .sldprt or else.
I suppose that these 'parametric' programs use curves and the software specialised for orthopedy are sharing the same principles which I understand as being curves (vectors).
I know that these programs achieve to convert a scan into a usable file (so, into curves) but I already searched much in this way and spoke with experienced multisoft 3D modelers that told me that so many people tried and failed.
Sorry for the too technical details but actually this is a node question for a real productive method. The CEO(director?) of a company producing 3D printed prosthetic sockets contacted me through linkedin and somebody in his team shoud be able to answer me that question... I'll let you know
Kiss