| Tavmjong | =============== Board Meeting in Twenty Minutes ================ | Oct 05 09:40 |
|---|---|---|
| Tavmjong | I may be a few minutes late... | Oct 05 09:40 |
| Mc | same (time to get home) | Oct 05 09:41 |
| *Mc sets mode -r on #inkscape-devel | Oct 05 09:41 | |
| *Mc disables the antispam | Oct 05 09:41 | |
| *ryangorley sneaks in the back to listen in | Oct 05 10:02 | |
| ryangorley | Did I miss the board meeting? | Oct 05 10:05 |
| Mc | nope | Oct 05 10:08 |
| Mc | tedg: Tavmjong: bryce: doctormon: meeting time :) | Oct 05 10:09 |
| Mc | Scisalc and crogers are not here yet | Oct 05 10:09 |
| doctormon | Morning | Oct 05 10:11 |
| bryce | hi | Oct 05 10:12 |
| bryce | let's go ahead and get started, maybe they'll come late | Oct 05 10:12 |
| Mc | Tavmjong should arrive soon | Oct 05 10:12 |
| bryce | = Board Meeting = | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | == Agenda == | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | * Past hackfests: recap. | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | ** [http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2018_Kiel Kiel] | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | * Future meetings/hackfests. | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | ** [http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/17x/ SCALE] - March 7th-10th, | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | 2019 (Pasadena, California) | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | ** [http://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2019/ LGM 2019] - May 30th-June 3rd | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | (Saarbrucken, Germany) Proposed. (About two hours by train from | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | Paris.) | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | * Infrastructure | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | ** http://chat.inkscape.org/ | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | * Merchandise sales | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | ** Spreadshirt | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | ** Evaluate self-serve merchandise sales - spreadshirt, cafepress, | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | Golden Ribbon, Think Penguin or similar [Mc] | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | * Action Items | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | * Other Business | Oct 05 10:13 |
| bryce | Oct 05 10:14 | |
| bryce | anything missing? | Oct 05 10:14 |
| doctormon | Seems good | Oct 05 10:15 |
| bryce | == Kiel Hackfest recap == | Oct 05 10:15 |
| doctormon | Maren isn't here to recap. Are there any specific questions needed answering? | Oct 05 10:15 |
| bryce | from everyone's trip reports that I've read, seems like the event went very well. Any observations / lessons learned / follow up tasks worth mentioning? | Oct 05 10:16 |
| Mc | well | Oct 05 10:16 |
| *Tavmjong waves | Oct 05 10:16 | |
| Mc | bug triaging and migration roadmap and 1.0 release | Oct 05 10:17 |
| bryce | heya Tav | Oct 05 10:17 |
| bryce | Mc, yes definitely | Oct 05 10:17 |
| Mc | I think that's the main followup tasks :p | Oct 05 10:17 |
| bryce | migration you're referring to lp->gitlab for bugs, right? | Oct 05 10:17 |
| Mc | yes | Oct 05 10:18 |
| Tavmjong | The Kiel hackfest was great and we had a great host! | Oct 05 10:18 |
| bryce | are there things to discuss on bug triaging separately from the migration? | Oct 05 10:19 |
| Mc | depends how we proceed, there is no consensus about how to do it | Oct 05 10:20 |
| doctormon | The bug strat for the 1.0 release. | Oct 05 10:20 |
| bryce | alright I've added these items to Other Business for this meeting, we'll start tracking those going forward until resolved. | Oct 05 10:20 |
| bryce | anything else on Kiel? | Oct 05 10:21 |
| bryce | thanks for getting the video put together | Oct 05 10:21 |
| bryce | do we have tedg or ScislaC ? | Oct 05 10:21 |
| Mc | (I was recently thinking a nice way might be to try to crowdsource the migration, with things like merch for people doing like n migrated bugs) | Oct 05 10:22 |
| Mc | ("migrate" meaning "check it reproduces on trunk, if yes, refill on gitlab") | Oct 05 10:22 |
| Mc | ScislaC joined like 6 mins ago so he should be around | Oct 05 10:23 |
| bryce | yeah, a checklist to follow might be good | Oct 05 10:23 |
| doctormon | That's an interesting idea for sure. | Oct 05 10:23 |
| ScislaC | I'm here. If you're wondering about SCALE stuff, we literally just started pushing things forward at the conference level, so I have no updates today, I expect to within the next couple weeks. | Oct 05 10:24 |
| Mc | (stickers for n=10, tshirt for n=30, something like that) | Oct 05 10:24 |
| bryce | == Future Meetings / Hackfests == | Oct 05 10:25 |
| Mc | I hope I can make it at SCALE :) | Oct 05 10:25 |
| bryce | ScislaC, thanks. But sounds like a takeaway is that the conference is definitely on, and dates are locked in? | Oct 05 10:25 |
| bryce | Looking at action items from last month | Oct 05 10:26 |
| ScislaC | Yes, that much is locked in. It is happening and dates are 3/7-3/10. | Oct 05 10:26 |
| bryce | Tav, did you get a chance to set up the SCALE hackfest wiki page? | Oct 05 10:26 |
| Tavmjong | Yes. | Oct 05 10:27 |
| bryce | cool | Oct 05 10:27 |
| Mc | http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2019_SCALE | Oct 05 10:27 |
| bryce | aha thanks | Oct 05 10:27 |
| Tavmjong | If the hackfest is before SCALE I can probably attend (I'm planning on taking my youngest to visit her grandparents in Minnesota during that time). | Oct 05 10:28 |
| bryce | ScislaC, do you know if ted's had a chance to look into meeting options and AirBNB? | Oct 05 10:29 |
| Mc | Moini: hi! | Oct 05 10:29 |
| Moini | Hi Mc ! | Oct 05 10:29 |
| tedg | Sorry, late. | Oct 05 10:29 |
| *tedg waves | Oct 05 10:29 | |
| bryce | heya tedg thanks for coming | Oct 05 10:29 |
| tedg | Ah, so I'm even the topic ;-) | Oct 05 10:30 |
| bryce | tedg, we were just chatting over SCALE hackfest ideas | Oct 05 10:30 |
| tedg | I've been talking with the Innovate Pasadena folks about getting a space. They're reaching out to their contacts. | Oct 05 10:30 |
| tedg | They've got some good possible locations, we just need to talk with them more. | Oct 05 10:30 |
| bryce | tedg, that's great. Do you have a plan B idea? | Oct 05 10:30 |
| Tavmjong | JTa has mentioned he's in Pasadena I think. | Oct 05 10:30 |
| tedg | I found a couple of AirBNB's but they were pretty expensive. | Oct 05 10:31 |
| tedg | Tavmjong: yes, we've chatted a bit back and forth. | Oct 05 10:31 |
| tedg | Absolute worst case there's also a WeWork nearby, but I'm not sure if that'll be affordable. | Oct 05 10:31 |
| tedg | But we're realistically only talking about three days of needing space, so it might work out. | Oct 05 10:32 |
| tedg | SCALE is Thurs - Sunday. | Oct 05 10:32 |
| Mc | so hackfest could be Mon-Wed | Oct 05 10:32 |
| tedg | So, I guess the summary is that I've got a few things in the air, nothing concrete yet, but I'm optimistic it is feasible. | Oct 05 10:32 |
| Tavmjong | Mon-Wed would be good! | Oct 05 10:33 |
| JTa | yup, I'm a socal guy | Oct 05 10:33 |
| JTa | ya, tedg pinged me about helping out with the SCALE hackfest | Oct 05 10:34 |
| ryangorley | Mon-Wed would be good for me to attend as well. I'm planning to present at SCALE again (if they'll have me) | Oct 05 10:35 |
| bryce | JTa, that's awesome, thanks! Would you be willing to help fillin some of the fields in http://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Hackfest2019_SCALE like nearby amenities and hotels? | Oct 05 10:35 |
| tedg | They're going to do another Libre Graphics Track probably on Friday. So it'd be good for people to submit talks. | Oct 05 10:35 |
| JTa | Yup...I'm in the middle of the busy fall season for live events so I'm a bit busy even though I lurk here... | Oct 05 10:36 |
| ScislaC | Are we talking the Mon-Wed before or after or either? | Oct 05 10:37 |
| tedg | I was thinking before. | Oct 05 10:38 |
| bryce | my kid's spring break is last week of March; shame SCALE isn't like 2 weeks later, they could get an amusement park visit out of it | Oct 05 10:38 |
| Tavmjong | Greater chance I can show up if before. | Oct 05 10:38 |
| ScislaC | If it's before I could probably get a room at the venue tues-wed (no guarantees on internet before Wed though). I can check with Ilan to see what's available and when if it's of interest. | Oct 05 10:39 |
| tedg | If bryce comes we have to go to JPL ;-) | Oct 05 10:39 |
| ScislaC | +1 on that! | Oct 05 10:39 |
| ScislaC | :P | Oct 05 10:40 |
| bryce | I'll have to dig up my caltech card | Oct 05 10:40 |
| bryce | wonder if they still let us host visitors | Oct 05 10:40 |
| bryce | ok, let's pencil in the days prior to the event, although guessing it'll depend on venue availability | Oct 05 10:40 |
| tedg | I'll hide in your backpack. | Oct 05 10:41 |
| ScislaC | I'll also ping Ilan about conference registration for interested hackfest folks. | Oct 05 10:41 |
| ryangorley | ScislaC: Do you think we can get a booth again this year? | Oct 05 10:41 |
| bryce | ted, keep conversing with them so we can get this nailed down, it'd be nice if people could start arranging flights by year's end | Oct 05 10:41 |
| tedg | bryce: +1, yup. I'd really like to get it nailed down before the CFP for SCALE closes for folks. | Oct 05 10:42 |
| bryce | yeah that's a good thought | Oct 05 10:42 |
| tedg | Thought really, if you're somewhat interested, submit. You can cancel if needed. | Oct 05 10:42 |
| ScislaC | ryangorley: we'll have a booth, I'm going to try for double (two booths) since us Libre Graphics folks rep multiple projects and the booth was a little crowded last year. | Oct 05 10:43 |
| ryangorley | ScislaC: Awesome | Oct 05 10:43 |
| Mc | ryangorley: (btw, did you put the banner sources up somewhere ?) | Oct 05 10:43 |
| bryce | I think we probably need to try to have a plan ready to vote on by next meeting, else I think we'll get behind the curve with holidays and whatnot | Oct 05 10:43 |
| doctormon | I wonder if they let MIT people into JPL. | Oct 05 10:43 |
| ryangorley | Mc: Haha, fail from me on that one. I finally got the website up to put the source up. | Oct 05 10:44 |
| ScislaC | bryce: agreed | Oct 05 10:44 |
| bryce | hi ryangorley | Oct 05 10:44 |
| *ryangorley waves :) | Oct 05 10:44 | |
| Mc | bryce: how are our finances wrt number of hackfests per year ? | Oct 05 10:44 |
| tedg | doctormon: Perhaps, but not people with sweaters for their teapots ;-) | Oct 05 10:44 |
| doctormon | Gosh darn it! | Oct 05 10:45 |
| Mc | (in/out, not "amount in bank") | Oct 05 10:45 |
| bryce | Mc, that's a good question, I haven't looked at the books in a while, not sure | Oct 05 10:46 |
| bryce | I meant to get feedback for ryangorley on how fundraising went. I'll try to do that today so the info will be available for tomorrow's meeting. | Oct 05 10:47 |
| ryangorley | Thanks bryce | Oct 05 10:47 |
| bryce | ACTION: Review hackfest fundraising in/out progress [bryce] | Oct 05 10:47 |
| bryce | wouldn't it be great if this hackfest could focus entirely on post-1.0 planning :-D | Oct 05 10:48 |
| Mc | haha not happening :p | Oct 05 10:48 |
| bryce | yeah... | Oct 05 10:48 |
| bryce | alright, well anything else on hackfests to discuss? | Oct 05 10:49 |
| doctormon | Any hackfest next year other than SCALE? | Oct 05 10:49 |
| bryce | tedg, ScislaC I'll carry your action items forward; maybe plan on sending an email to the board within the next week on status? | Oct 05 10:49 |
| tedg | Sounds good. | Oct 05 10:50 |
| Tavmjong | LGM | Oct 05 10:50 |
| bryce | May 30th-June 3rd | Oct 05 10:50 |
| bryce | hmm, they're going to be kind of close | Oct 05 10:50 |
| Tavmjong | Saarbrucken is pretty centrally located in Europe. Most (all?) the people in Kiel would probably attend. | Oct 05 10:51 |
| doctormon | Maybe roll both events into one Hackfest? | Oct 05 10:51 |
| doctormon | Spring 2019 event season :-D | Oct 05 10:52 |
| bryce | hah | Oct 05 10:52 |
| bryce | yeah US squad and Euro squad | Oct 05 10:52 |
| Mc | From my raft release plan, scale would be after the beginning of the bug hunt and lgm would be release ate | Oct 05 10:52 |
| Mc | date* | Oct 05 10:52 |
| Mc | draft* | Oct 05 10:52 |
| Tavmjong | We can have a Ryder's cup of hacking. | Oct 05 10:52 |
| bryce | well, if we're concerned about finances, it might actually make sense to have people focus on the one closest ot them geographically | Oct 05 10:52 |
| bryce | Mc, ok cool | Oct 05 10:53 |
| bryce | being able to announce 1.0 at LGM would be nice | Oct 05 10:53 |
| Mc | that's the plan :) | Oct 05 10:53 |
| doctormon | So focus hackfests on deep freeze bug hacking? | Oct 05 10:53 |
| Mc | if hackfest at LGM it would be on post-1.0 | Oct 05 10:54 |
| bryce | honestly even March is probably going to be a bit late for bug hacking | Oct 05 10:54 |
| Mc | I was thinking of a 3month-long bug hunt (March-May) with the month of june to prep everything for release | Oct 05 10:55 |
| bryce | by then the list should hopefully be winnowed down pretty small. By then maybe should be down to spit and polish type stuff | Oct 05 10:55 |
| Mc | anyway we can go back to the topic | Oct 05 10:57 |
| bryce | yeah, maybe we could trade some emails | Oct 05 10:57 |
| bryce | == Infrastructure == | Oct 05 10:57 |
| bryce | Tavmjong, looks like you added http://chat.inkscape.org/ to the agenda, did you have some thinking to share? | Oct 05 10:58 |
| Tavmjong | There has been some discussion about the new chat server. Some worries that it will "split" the community. | Oct 05 10:58 |
| bryce | *nod* | Oct 05 10:59 |
| Tavmjong | I was orignaly a bit skeptical about it but as I've used it, I really like it. | Oct 05 10:59 |
| Mc | it's mattermost, right ? | Oct 05 10:59 |
| bryce | Mc, similar | Oct 05 10:59 |
| ryangorley | Mc: Rocket.Chat | Oct 05 10:59 |
| Mc | ah | Oct 05 10:59 |
| Mc | do they also have an IRC bridge ? | Oct 05 10:59 |
| ScislaC | We used to do both jabber and IRC and I don't recall that being an issue then. | Oct 05 11:00 |
| Tavmjong | The biggest advantage is that it allows one to come back later and catch up. | Oct 05 11:00 |
| Moini | Mc: how can you use June to prep for release if LGM ends at the beginning of June? | Oct 05 11:00 |
| Tavmjong | I get a bit frustrated with IRC when someone asks a question and then disappears. | Oct 05 11:00 |
| bryce | yeah I like that feature, it works better than a similar capability in mattermost | Oct 05 11:00 |
| Tavmjong | .. only to reappear later. | Oct 05 11:00 |
| bryce | Tavmjong, totally agreed | Oct 05 11:01 |
| doctormon | The only concern is that our community grows such that parts of it are not aware of what's happening in other parts. If vectors is on chat.inkscape.org and dev happens on ML, then not so much of a problem. | Oct 05 11:01 |
| Tavmjong | Also, a lot of people don't keep an IRC window open so are hard to catch. | Oct 05 11:01 |
| Tavmjong | I know at one time some people didn't like the ideal of keeping a public IRC log. | Oct 05 11:02 |
| Mc | Moini: mmh, true, I got some dates wrong :p | Oct 05 11:02 |
| doctormon | Part of my feels like we could scrap the mailing list in favour of a gitlab issues tracker/merges plus rocket chat. | Oct 05 11:02 |
| Tavmjong | (I also really like GitHub issues, I imagine GitLab is the same.) | Oct 05 11:02 |
| doctormon | That hurts because of all the time we've spent on Mailman3, but it might be the right thing to do to reduce our community's surface area. | Oct 05 11:03 |
| Ede_123 | ML for threaded discussion is really useful | Oct 05 11:03 |
| bryce | doctormon, I've idly wondered those thoughts too; maintaining mailman will be an ongoing chore. But mailing lists do have an important purpose, it'd probably be pretty weird doing without them. | Oct 05 11:03 |
| Mc | +1 for ML | Oct 05 11:03 |
| Ede_123 | I don't think chat or issue tracker could handle that | Oct 05 11:03 |
| Mc | also email clients have convenience that web-based stuff don't | Oct 05 11:04 |
| doctormon | It's not unreasonable to keep a mailing list, there are advantages to email. | Oct 05 11:04 |
| Mc | like "it's email, not chat, so people spend time writing" ^^ | Oct 05 11:05 |
| doctormon | Ede_123: The threaded stuff would move to gitlab in this senario | Oct 05 11:05 |
| bryce | while the last couple years have not seen as heavy use of the mailing lists, some years ago it was very heavily used. I suspect if development picks up again, mailing lists may become a preferred channel again. | Oct 05 11:05 |
| Mc | doctormon: threaded discussions ? | Oct 05 11:05 |
| bryce | part of it I blame on SourceForge being flaky. Lots of people have had misc. troubles with it. | Oct 05 11:05 |
| Ede_123 | doctormon: yeah, but issue trackers are mor "disciplined" (more structured, denser information, less discussion) | Oct 05 11:06 |
| Mc | crogers: hi! | Oct 05 11:06 |
| Tavmjong | There is talk of an IRC/RocketChat bridge... does that actually exist? How would it work as RocketChat seems to be a lot more expressive? | Oct 05 11:06 |
| doctormon | Well in terms of linking to other issues as they get spun out, but year it's not a spikey tree. | Oct 05 11:06 |
| crogers | Hi. Sorry, did I miss the meeting? | Oct 05 11:06 |
| doctormon | crogers: this is the meeting! | Oct 05 11:06 |
| ryangorley | Mc: Tavmjong: I think there is a IRC bridge built in, but I can't find any documentation on it. Not sure how well it works. | Oct 05 11:06 |
| crogers | cool. | Oct 05 11:06 |
| Mc | Tavmjong: there is an IRC module I think | Oct 05 11:07 |
| Tavmjong | Does it work both ways? | Oct 05 11:07 |
| Mc | yes | Oct 05 11:07 |
| Mc | (if it works at all, it works both ways) | Oct 05 11:07 |
| Mc | crogers: you're only 1j late :) | Oct 05 11:08 |
| Mc | 1h* | Oct 05 11:08 |
| doctormon | Ede_123: It's not a perfect fit, but energy wise, we could gain a lot by simplifying | Oct 05 11:08 |
| crogers | Mc: Yea, that's what the sorry was for. ;P | Oct 05 11:08 |
| doctormon | We could also let it die by lack of use :-D | Oct 05 11:08 |
| bryce | I'd seen some IRC/mattermost bridges set up, but none that really were pleasing enough for everyone | Oct 05 11:09 |
| Mc | crogers: (and next month it'll be at 6pm european time, 1h earlier) | Oct 05 11:09 |
| crogers | Rendering out Hackfest vid #2 right now. | Oct 05 11:09 |
| crogers | and I fell asleep. | Oct 05 11:09 |
| dave24 | Sophos vs untangle vs fortinet? | Oct 05 11:09 |
| ryangorley | crogers: woohoo! | Oct 05 11:09 |
| *Mc sets ban on *!*dave24@160.242.134.* | Oct 05 11:09 | |
| *Mc has kicked dave24 from #inkscape-devel (dave24) | Oct 05 11:09 | |
| bryce | ok, bringing the convo back around, the question is if the additional channels are going to result in splitting the community | Oct 05 11:10 |
| Ede_123 | I wouldn't mind dropping IRC in favour of Rocket.Chat | Oct 05 11:10 |
| Mc | I think we can keep the "mostly dev" from the "mostly non-dev" apart | Oct 05 11:11 |
| Mc | without too much trouble | Oct 05 11:11 |
| doctormon | @bryce - we could do a network map of active users on each key platforms, that would give us a good topology and answer the question. | Oct 05 11:11 |
| bryce | this is something I've wondered about for a while now, and have been keeping an eye out for evidence, but so far things seem to be going ok, so I'm not super worried about it | Oct 05 11:11 |
| Ede_123 | dev works well on Rocket.Chat already ;-) | Oct 05 11:11 |
| bryce | I'm kind of game for letting things proceed naturally, if it's a better platform maybe discussions will migrate themselves over there | Oct 05 11:12 |
| bryce | if IRC has advantages, discussions will stay mostly there | Oct 05 11:12 |
| tedg | +1, I don't think we know enough yet to make a decision. | Oct 05 11:12 |
| doctormon | My intuition is that they will, so I'm happy to be Darwinian. | Oct 05 11:13 |
| Mc | (I'm on like 50 channels on IRC on a single client on 4 servers for almost everything I want to discuss, and it would be a pain for me to have to get to a specific platform for a specific purpose) | Oct 05 11:13 |
| bryce | if there are problems, people will raise complaints and we can figure things out as we go | Oct 05 11:13 |
| doctormon | I'd like board meetings to move to Rocket.Chat, for logging. | Oct 05 11:13 |
| Ede_123 | Mc: also true... but then we need the bridge | Oct 05 11:13 |
| Ede_123 | or close the dev channel on rocket chat | Oct 05 11:13 |
| Mc | bridge would be fine for me, my only requirement is for me to join by IRC even if it's ugly for me | Oct 05 11:14 |
| Ede_123 | (e.g. you already have no idea what we talked about ;-) | Oct 05 11:14 |
| ScislaC | I'm not spread as thin as Mc, but yeah, all my realtime discussion stuff is in one place currently and splitting it isn't appealing. | Oct 05 11:14 |
| doctormon | Heh, we could just start a channel called #Inkscape_chat_for_mc and just pile messages into it :-D | Oct 05 11:14 |
| Mc | (actually I have a second place, which is thunderbird) | Oct 05 11:14 |
| Mc | ^^ | Oct 05 11:15 |
| ryangorley | Mc: there is a pidgin plugin for rocket.chat: https://pidgin.im/ | Oct 05 11:15 |
| doctormon | The problem is also two-way, would IRC folk be ok going into chat.inkscape.org to post a message? | Oct 05 11:15 |
| crogers | Rocketchat will probably work better in the long run, since it saves what was said. I miss most of what's said here. | Oct 05 11:16 |
| bryce | ok, lots more to discuss here, but let's move on | Oct 05 11:16 |
| bryce | == Merchandise Sales == | Oct 05 11:17 |
| *crogers hides. | Oct 05 11:17 | |
| bryce | crogers :-) | Oct 05 11:17 |
| *crogers peeks out. Um... :) | Oct 05 11:17 | |
| bryce | crogers, been a busy month :-) | Oct 05 11:17 |
| Mc | crogers: you could see my shirt | Oct 05 11:17 |
| crogers | So, two things to report. | Oct 05 11:17 |
| bryce | crogers, go for it | Oct 05 11:17 |
| crogers | One: Mc's shirt was *ok* | Oct 05 11:18 |
| crogers | So spreadshirt was not as bad as I was assuming. | Oct 05 11:18 |
| crogers | Therefore we can probably run with it for now, with no major complaints. | Oct 05 11:18 |
| crogers | Even the inkscape pin was not that bad. And the main advantage is there's no work for us. | Oct 05 11:19 |
| crogers | Second thing: Inkscape Polo shirt is still in the works. | Oct 05 11:20 |
| Moini | That was the stitched one, right? | Oct 05 11:20 |
| ScislaC | Does rocketchat just use the website credentials? | Oct 05 11:20 |
| crogers | They contacted me again a few days ago and asked if they could proceed with what they made (which I showed people at the hackfest) | Oct 05 11:21 |
| Mc | separate ones | Oct 05 11:21 |
| crogers | Moini, yep | Oct 05 11:21 |
| Moini | Ah. Didn't see it at the hackfest, I think. | Oct 05 11:21 |
| crogers | I agreed with the assesment that the logo wasn't quite good enough. | Oct 05 11:21 |
| crogers | So I sent them a simplified vector. | Oct 05 11:21 |
| crogers | I think they dug the wrong one off the internet. | Oct 05 11:22 |
| bryce | ScislaC, no | Oct 05 11:22 |
| crogers | I think they got this unfortunate looking one: https://image4.owler.com/logo/inkscape_owler_20171114_083724_original.png | Oct 05 11:23 |
| bryce | crogers, that's a relief to hear with spreadshirt. Think we can officially announce it within the month? Then everyone can get their Inkscape shirts for xmas ;-) | Oct 05 11:23 |
| crogers | bryce: Yep. One thing I think I'll do is get rid of the shadow, because it turns into a glow on the black shirt. | Oct 05 11:24 |
| bryce | crogers, was that stitched shirt through hellotux.com? You mentioned you were going to check them out? | Oct 05 11:24 |
| bryce | doctormon, you had an action to check about sticker production with Conservancy; did you get a chance to trade emails with them yet? | Oct 05 11:25 |
| ryangorley | bryce: Apparently conservency doesn't know anything about the stickers. | Oct 05 11:26 |
| bryce | ugh | Oct 05 11:26 |
| ryangorley | bryce: We'll need to get anything that was started going again. | Oct 05 11:26 |
| bryce | ryangorley, can I send you the emails to follow up on? | Oct 05 11:27 |
| crogers | Here's the sample they came up with: https://imgur.com/a/6iqSs3P | Oct 05 11:27 |
| crogers | (the one I showed at the hackfest) | Oct 05 11:27 |
| ryangorley | bryce: Sure. Martin put me in contact with someone there. I'm not sure what artwork was sent originally. | Oct 05 11:27 |
| crogers | bryce, yes, it's hellotux. | Oct 05 11:27 |
| doctormon | bryce: We checked, conservancy didn't know anything. | Oct 05 11:28 |
| ryangorley | bryce: I'll forward you the last email I got. | Oct 05 11:28 |
| bryce | ryangorley, ok. I'm sure I have some emails between us and them, I'll forward those back | Oct 05 11:28 |
| bryce | if I can find them | Oct 05 11:28 |
| doctormon | Basically we had voted on $100 worth of stickers, but this was before their new ticketing system | Oct 05 11:28 |
| doctormon | Maybe we should just push a few designs into their ticketing system | Oct 05 11:29 |
| doctormon | Honestly they wanted us to order them and ask for reimbursements as an easier method for them. | Oct 05 11:29 |
| bryce | crogers, good work getting the sample arranged. It doesn't look too bad to my eyes, so if you have ways to make it even better it'll rock. How fair do you feel the pricing is on it? | Oct 05 11:30 |
| crogers | bryce, well, I would buy one. :) | Oct 05 11:30 |
| crogers | And the price is what it is. THey are like spreadshirt in that they handle everything. They are not this massive company though. | Oct 05 11:31 |
| crogers | And they do this for a lot of other FLOSS projects. | Oct 05 11:31 |
| crogers | So they get top marks from me, really. | Oct 05 11:31 |
| bryce | crogers, ok cool. Sounds like you think we should proceed with them. Have you identified next steps? | Oct 05 11:32 |
| crogers | bryce, well, I'm going to give them another week to get back to me about a second sample. | Oct 05 11:32 |
| bryce | ok | Oct 05 11:33 |
| crogers | Then I'll poke them again, and see where we are. | Oct 05 11:33 |
| crogers | If I have not heard back. | Oct 05 11:33 |
| bryce | I suppose we'll need a board vote at some point after that, when a plan's nailed down | Oct 05 11:33 |
| crogers | Would we like to give them our blessing to do this, regardless of if they increase the quality? | Oct 05 11:33 |
| bryce | I assume we'll need to coordinate with conservancy on the bank side | Oct 05 11:33 |
| crogers | (or the acuracy of the mark) | Oct 05 11:33 |
| bryce | the shirts sell for $38, right? | Oct 05 11:35 |
| bryce | +$8 shipping | Oct 05 11:35 |
| bryce | wow, ships from Hungary | Oct 05 11:36 |
| crogers | Yea, I'll sort that out with them as a next step. | Oct 05 11:36 |
| crogers | And yes, that's about right. | Oct 05 11:36 |
| bryce | 6-20 days | Oct 05 11:36 |
| ryangorley | Maybe we need a US distributor too. That's kind of a lot for a tee. | Oct 05 11:36 |
| crogers | Yea, I have no doubt we could get a price break if we bought in bulk. | Oct 05 11:36 |
| bryce | ryangorley, maybe yeah, although note this is a stitched polo, not a tee | Oct 05 11:37 |
| crogers | Yea, not a tee. | Oct 05 11:37 |
| ryangorley | Oh, okay, that's more reasonable | Oct 05 11:37 |
| bryce | any idea on how much gets donated to the project? | Oct 05 11:37 |
| bryce | also I wonder if shipping is less for EU folks | Oct 05 11:39 |
| crogers | I've asked all those questions, but have only gotten a sample so far. :) | Oct 05 11:39 |
| doctormon | How would we present this to the users on the website? | Oct 05 11:39 |
| Mc | that's a question for the Website Team | Oct 05 11:40 |
| Mc | I'll forward that question to Martin, he's also good at UI design | Oct 05 11:40 |
| bryce | crogers, ahh. At least you're on top of it. :-) | Oct 05 11:40 |
| doctormon | :-) | Oct 05 11:40 |
| crogers | actually, They did answer, I just missed it. | Oct 05 11:41 |
| crogers | Onesec.. | Oct 05 11:41 |
| crogers | > 1. Do you already have a payment process worked out with SFC for | Oct 05 11:41 |
| bryce | crogers, ok maybe you're on the side of it ;-) | Oct 05 11:41 |
| crogers | > donation money? It would be preferable to have the payments to us | Oct 05 11:41 |
| crogers | > (the Inkscape project) be direct to SFC rather than through Paypal | Oct 05 11:41 |
| crogers | > since we'll lose a big chunk on the transaction fees. | Oct 05 11:41 |
| crogers | they answered: We are now using the following methods for royalty/donation payments: | Oct 05 11:42 |
| crogers | - SEPA transfer within the European Union | Oct 05 11:42 |
| crogers | - SWIFT payment in US dollars to other countries | Oct 05 11:42 |
| crogers | - PayPal | Oct 05 11:42 |
| bryce | SWIFT would work | Oct 05 11:42 |
| bryce | we can get that arranged with conservancy | Oct 05 11:42 |
| crogers | bryce, cool | Oct 05 11:42 |
| bryce | doing it as a royalty/donation should be more straightforward for us, than what we've got with spreadshirt | Oct 05 11:43 |
| Mc | yep | Oct 05 11:43 |
| crogers | Here are the prices they quoted (direct sales from their website to the buyer) | Oct 05 11:43 |
| crogers | - Polo shirts: 33 EUR / 38 USD | Oct 05 11:43 |
| crogers | - T-shirts: 29 EUR / 33 USD | Oct 05 11:43 |
| crogers | - Sweatshirts: 45 EUR / 55 USD | Oct 05 11:43 |
| Moini | I wonder why they don't advertise how much of the price goes to the projects. I'd want to know before I buy. | Oct 05 11:43 |
| crogers | They donate 3 EUR to the project from the price of each product. | Oct 05 11:44 |
| crogers | Which is fine, I think. | Oct 05 11:44 |
| Moini | Thanks, crogers. Where did you find that info? | Oct 05 11:45 |
| bryce | crogers, ok, can you summarize that in an email to me? I'll turn that into a board vote for giving them our blessing | Oct 05 11:45 |
| bryce | Moini, he contacted them directly aiui | Oct 05 11:45 |
| bryce | ACTION: Email Bryce with evaluation/details about hellotux.com merchandise service, for preparing board vote [crogers] | Oct 05 11:46 |
| crogers | Yea, I can forward that email to whoever is interested. | Oct 05 11:46 |
| crogers | Is that easier? | Oct 05 11:46 |
| bryce | ACTION: Board vote on hellotux.com [bryce] | Oct 05 11:47 |
| Mc | vote ? | Oct 05 11:47 |
| bryce | crogers, if you can state it in your own words, I can paste that in for the background section of the vote | Oct 05 11:48 |
| Mc | crogers: send it to inkscape-board ? | Oct 05 11:48 |
| crogers | Sure. | Oct 05 11:48 |
| ryangorley | Do you want to keep the door open for a US distributor? I may be able to help on that front. | Oct 05 11:48 |
| Mc | ryangorley: we close no doors | Oct 05 11:48 |
| bryce | ryangorley, sure, or an alternate vendor would be fine. We're not signing any exclusive merch deals or anything :-) | Oct 05 11:49 |
| crogers | Yea, this also does not mean we can't diy a huge batch of shirts through another online embroidering company, it's just we have to diy all the shipping. :) | Oct 05 11:49 |
| bryce | right | Oct 05 11:49 |
| bryce | ok looking over action items... | Oct 05 11:49 |
| bryce | Mc, you'd thought about looking into Golden Ribbon or Think Penguin. Anyone had a chance to peruse them? | Oct 05 11:50 |
| bryce | (oh, and cafepress too, although guessing that'll be duplicative of spreadshirt) | Oct 05 11:50 |
| ryangorley | Mc, okay. I'm more connected on this side. I think we can work out some better pricing and better royalties. I'm also planned to seek the approval to license the mark on my own tee-shirt store: https://geeknook.com (being built) | Oct 05 11:51 |
| doctormon | ryangorley: You setting up a merch business? | Oct 05 11:52 |
| ryangorley | doctormon: not custom stuff, just scratching a creative itch and wanting to get some decent FOSS shirts out on the market. Not crazy about what's out there. | Oct 05 11:53 |
| crogers | ryangorley, sounds interesting. | Oct 05 11:54 |
| crogers | I have some ideas too. | Oct 05 11:54 |
| ryangorley | ^^ Not trying to profit on the project or change topic. If I can work something out, I'd like to see more go to Inkscape. | Oct 05 11:55 |
| bryce | ok, sounds like a lot of good momentum on the merchandise front, next month or two should be very interesting | Oct 05 11:55 |
| bryce | anything else on merch? | Oct 05 11:55 |
| crogers | Not from this end. | Oct 05 11:55 |
| Mc | did I ? ^^ | Oct 05 11:55 |
| bryce | == Action Items == | Oct 05 11:55 |
| crogers | Oh, Mc asked for changes to the video. | Oct 05 11:56 |
| doctormon | crogers + ryangorley: set up a meeting and invite others. | Oct 05 11:56 |
| crogers | but that can wait a minute. | Oct 05 11:56 |
| bryce | we already covered actions for merch and hackfests | Oct 05 11:56 |
| Mc | crogers: ah yeah, nothing fancy, just the inkscape logo on black background and a thanks and the link | Oct 05 11:56 |
| bryce | doctormo, you had an action on an outreachy project proposal - that got finished iirc? | Oct 05 11:56 |
| doctormon | Yes, we have a description. | Oct 05 11:57 |
| bryce | vote for that got finalized. Not sure if stuff got done in time for the dec deadline, but guess others can work details out from there. | Oct 05 11:58 |
| bryce | ok, rest of action items are related to the release, which we'll talk about in Other Business | Oct 05 11:58 |
| bryce | == Other Business == | Oct 05 11:58 |
| Mc | I'm in the process of asking my employer (a public school) to "officially" give me time to contribute (20%), and my n+1 (who is not the one deciding) asked me if the school would/could have a logo on the sponsor page if they decided on it (just stating that they support Inkscape by hiring me part-time on it), I guess that would need a board decision ? | Oct 05 11:58 |
| bryce | that's awesome, Mc! | Oct 05 11:59 |
| Moini | Whoo! That would be cool! | Oct 05 11:59 |
| doctormon | I believe that's a valid sponsorship. From the moral perspective it depend if the school is directing your work or if you are. | Oct 05 11:59 |
| Mc | 20% would be 1day/week | Oct 05 11:59 |
| *ryangorley has to leave, waves goodbye | Oct 05 11:59 | |
| Mc | they would not be directing anything on the inkscape side | Oct 05 11:59 |
| Moini | Bye ryangorley! | Oct 05 11:59 |
| bryce | ryangorley, thanks for coming; will send that email if/when I find it | Oct 05 11:59 |
| doctormon | So it's a sponsorship | Oct 05 12:00 |
| Tavmjong | Mc, We can definitely put the school logo on! | Oct 05 12:00 |
| Mc | (20% of my annual salary would be >5k€ ) | Oct 05 12:00 |
| crogers | later ryangorley ! | Oct 05 12:00 |
| Mc | ok then I'll answer that it's possible ^^ | Oct 05 12:00 |
| crogers | Yea, that would be an ideal sort of donation. :) | Oct 05 12:01 |
| doctormon | It's a thing we /would/ do if you were to be sponsored for the year. | Oct 05 12:01 |
| Moini | 5000 is gold. " your logo and link would be added in rotation to the website front page OR downloads page for a year. One news article will be published in thanks of your business. | Oct 05 12:01 |
| Moini | " | Oct 05 12:01 |
| tedg | I'm +1, and I don't think it matters if they're directing work really. | Oct 05 12:01 |
| crogers | Yea, +1 here too | Oct 05 12:01 |
| crogers | Nice one, Mc. :) | Oct 05 12:01 |
| bryce | +1 for me as well | Oct 05 12:01 |
| Tavmjong | Maybe they can give you a raise so they can be a Platinum sponsor! | Oct 05 12:02 |
| Mc | haha | Oct 05 12:02 |
| Moini | We don't have any rotation or dl page logo code in the website yet, AFAIK. | Oct 05 12:02 |
| Mc | how much is platinium ? | Oct 05 12:02 |
| doctormon | (tedg: if they direct the work then it's employment, which is also ok, but is a bit different from sponsorship. Imagine if someone paid me $10k to fix css bugs, should I/they get a spot) | Oct 05 12:02 |
| Moini | 10000: https://inkscape.org/en/support-us/sponsors/ | Oct 05 12:02 |
| tedg | doctormon: I would argue that if you're working on Inkscape, yes. That's basically what we'd worked out with bryce sponsored project plan. | Oct 05 12:03 |
| Mc | I'll need a steep change in the EUR/USD rate to reach that in usd | Oct 05 12:03 |
| Moini | Mc: or a raise in salary :) | Oct 05 12:04 |
| Mc | public employer, so I'm not counting on that | Oct 05 12:04 |
| bryce | a news item for the website might be nice too | Oct 05 12:04 |
| Moini | bryce: it would be required, unless they don't want it. | Oct 05 12:05 |
| bryce | Moini, ok good deal | Oct 05 12:05 |
| Moini | (as by our own rules at https://inkscape.org/en/support-us/sponsors/) | Oct 05 12:05 |
| bryce | thanks for looking that up | Oct 05 12:05 |
| Mc | well, we can count them along with the infra stuff with no news articles :p | Oct 05 12:06 |
| crogers | Mc: Here's the new outtro: https://www.dropbox.com/s/39qol4h8427npc8/outtro_sequence_sample.mp4?dl=1 | Oct 05 12:07 |
| Mc | anyway, that's not approved yet, I'll tell you as soon as I have news about that | Oct 05 12:07 |
| Mc | any other business ? ^^ | Oct 05 12:07 |
| doctormon | Mc: you can tell hopefully that we're excited by the prospect. | Oct 05 12:07 |
| crogers | with your changes. I added a fade out to just the logo screen, tagline and website. | Oct 05 12:07 |
| bryce | Mc, thanks sounds good. And let us know if you need anything on our end. | Oct 05 12:08 |
| Mc | crogers: great :) | Oct 05 12:08 |
| bryce | * Other Business | Oct 05 12:08 |
| bryce | + Inkscape 1.0 alpha release & bug strategy | Oct 05 12:08 |
| bryce | + Migration of bugs from LP to gitlab | Oct 05 12:08 |
| bryce | + Bug triaging generally | Oct 05 12:08 |
| Mc | I'm praying that they won't involve lawyers | Oct 05 12:08 |
| Mc | bryce: so bugs, bugs, and bugs | Oct 05 12:09 |
| bryce | these topics are all pretty deep, and the meeting is already over time, but are there any near term action items worth tracking on any of these? | Oct 05 12:09 |
| Moini | We shouldn't forget to thank donors... I just noticed that even the news article doesn't do that. | Oct 05 12:09 |
| bryce | Moini, definitely agreed | Oct 05 12:09 |
| Mc | Moini: yeah, that was I asked CR for the outro | Oct 05 12:09 |
| crogers | Moini, just added to the video template. | Oct 05 12:09 |
| Moini | I meant the one for the hackfest. | Oct 05 12:09 |
| crogers | Moini: https://www.dropbox.com/s/39qol4h8427npc8/outtro_sequence_sample.mp4?dl=1 | Oct 05 12:09 |
| crogers | This clip should make you happy. :) | Oct 05 12:10 |
| bryce | I kind of wish we had someone in a formal role for doing sponsor management. I think others have expressed similar ideas. | Oct 05 12:10 |
| Moini | Yes, I know. I meant we should edit the news for that part. | Oct 05 12:10 |
| Mc | Moini: good idea | Oct 05 12:10 |
| crogers | Yea, feel free | Oct 05 12:10 |
| Moini | I will... | Oct 05 12:10 |
| Mc | bryce: someone looking for sponsors ? | Oct 05 12:10 |
| bryce | Mc, that might be part of it, but the main need is for following up with prospective sponsors who come to us, and following up with existing ones to make sure their needs are met, and encourage them to re-up | Oct 05 12:11 |
| bryce | that sort of thing | Oct 05 12:11 |
| Mc | @looking for, it would probably be better to have someone in the US as I don't think donations to SFC would be tax-deductible elsewhere | Oct 05 12:11 |
| bryce | outtro looks really nice | Oct 05 12:12 |
| bryce | Mc, I had sent you an email with some thoughts on bug management for the alpha release; would love to get your feedback on that. Or shoot me the draft of the plan you've been working on. | Oct 05 12:13 |
| Mc | sure | Oct 05 12:14 |
| bryce | once I finalize the 2geom 1.0 release I'll make that my focus. | Oct 05 12:14 |
| crogers | bryce, thanks. :) | Oct 05 12:14 |
| Mc | no .92.4 then ? | Oct 05 12:14 |
| bryce | Mc, Ede had suggested the priority on that was a bit lower due to not so many changes since .3, but releasing .4 shouldn't be very time consuming if it's worth getting out of the way first | Oct 05 12:16 |
| bryce | was thinking maybe in process of doing the 1.0alpha, it might scare up a few backportable bugs for 0.92.4, maybe | Oct 05 12:17 |
| bryce | but either order's fine for me | Oct 05 12:17 |
| crogers | VIdeo side note: I've switched to KdenLive for final video compositing work. I think this will be easier for other people in the project to use than Blender, which is what I usually use. | Oct 05 12:17 |
| crogers | It's much easier and much much more performant for simple compositing. | Oct 05 12:18 |
| bryce | regarding the lp->gitlab migration, there's been a lot of different ideas discussed, and while we don't yet have a firm plan, regardless it's going to be a big effort, so I'm kinda leaning towards procrastination there. | Oct 05 12:19 |
| crogers | The only real drawback is that the only good version runs on Linux at the moment. | Oct 05 12:19 |
| bryce | one thing that could be done right now would be a test-import of bugs from LP into a temp (disposable) gitlab project, just to experiment with the procedure. That'd probably help guide some of the decisionmaking a lot. | Oct 05 12:20 |
| doctormon | -1 importing data from launchpad. | Oct 05 12:21 |
| Ede_123 | I'm actually becoming sceptical myself there... | Oct 05 12:21 |
| Ede_123 | Maybe we could just keep Launchpad open? | Oct 05 12:21 |
| Ede_123 | Bug are sorted nicely there | Oct 05 12:21 |
| Ede_123 | (Not open to file new bugs, just so the content is stil lthere an searchable) | Oct 05 12:22 |
| Ede_123 | if we tell people to got to GitLab to file their bugs it shouldn't be a problem if there is no read-only mode | Oct 05 12:22 |
| crogers | omg, just got the worst review ever for Inkscape. Shame too, this guy has a LOT of subscribers. | Oct 05 12:23 |
| bryce | Ede_123, there is no read-only mode that I could find. We can modify the language on the new bug form, and guide them to a different tracker, but doesn't look like we can turn it off | Oct 05 12:23 |
| Ede_123 | yes, that's what I meant... | Oct 05 12:23 |
| Ede_123 | gthis is what I've done for devlibs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape-devlibs/+filebug | Oct 05 12:24 |
| Ede_123 | should be obvious ;-) | Oct 05 12:24 |
| doctormon | I liked Mc's idea of rewarding people for testing issues and transposing them to gitlab. I thought that was genious. | Oct 05 12:25 |
| Mc | we would still need a good tutorial on howto and many people :p | Oct 05 12:25 |
| Mc | crogers: ? | Oct 05 12:25 |
| doctormon | A user/community effort wrangler... | Oct 05 12:25 |
| bryce | doctormon, I think you made a bad assumption about what I was talking about | Oct 05 12:26 |
| doctormon | bryce: Sorry bryce, my mistake. | Oct 05 12:26 |
| crogers | Mc, you want me to make a tutorial video? | Oct 05 12:26 |
| Mc | first need to make installers for an alpha version | Oct 05 12:27 |
| doctormon | I thought we'd done a test import using other projects like inkscape-web. | Oct 05 12:27 |
| bryce | doctormon, a proposal someone had made was to do a mechanical import of the bugs into gitlab, in order to facilitate a manual migration. The question was whether there was toolage that would permit that, so the task would be to JFDI and see if it's feasible at all. | Oct 05 12:27 |
| bryce | into a temp project | Oct 05 12:27 |
| Ede_123 | bryce: I was actually promoting the idea. But it costs effort to migrate and it looses information - so why do it at all? | Oct 05 12:28 |
| bryce | doctormon, right this would be for inkscape bugs themselves. Sounds like the bugs themselves should come in ok, but Q's about milestones and whatnot. | Oct 05 12:28 |
| Ede_123 | (especially if we won't really use those bugs) | Oct 05 12:28 |
| doctormon | bryce: It's messy, we can't set the users, we can't set the date/timestamps. There's bits of meta-data that has to be plugged into the comment field manually. | Oct 05 12:29 |
| crogers | The great bug migration. | Oct 05 12:29 |
| *crogers hears Lion King intro music | Oct 05 12:29 | |
| Ede_123 | If we do the migration manual / crowd-sourced people will probably be able to do the job more efficiently using the original Launchpad tracker to source their work from | Oct 05 12:29 |
| doctormon | Ede_123: +1 | Oct 05 12:29 |
| Mc | agreed ("if" we manage to crowdsource it) | Oct 05 12:30 |
| bryce | https://gitlab.com/inkscape/infra/services/issues/3 | Oct 05 12:30 |
| bryce | ^^ leaving the bugs in LP as-is and manually migrating bugs manually was the solution I was pushing from the start, so it's great people are agreeing with me. The issues you raise with doing a side-import are issues I worried about too. | Oct 05 12:32 |
| Moini | I'm not going to be a copy-paste monkey... | Oct 05 12:32 |
| Moini | Move - yes. | Oct 05 12:32 |
| Moini | (well, at least that's my current opinion) | Oct 05 12:33 |
| doctormon | No bug should be copied and pasted anyway. It should be 're-test' + 're-file' | Oct 05 12:33 |
| bryce | there were a LOT of holes poked into my proposal though, so I'm trying to find ways forward that address those concerns | Oct 05 12:33 |
| bryce | or prove/disprove alternate ideas such as the side-import | Oct 05 12:33 |
| Ede_123 | bryce: I think the main problem is, that in the end there is no really good way to do the migration. Many ideas sound great on paper but begin to crumble as soon as one starts to think them through. | Oct 05 12:36 |
| Moini | Updated the article. | Oct 05 12:36 |
| Ede_123 | It's unfortunate, but I'm at a point where I feel a clear cut (with the crowd-sourced part) might actually make the most sense | Oct 05 12:36 |
| Ede_123 | Moini: "Pay for future hackfests" sounds a bit direct, I'd use "If you want to support future hackfests" ;-) | Oct 05 12:38 |
| bryce | FTR, my original suggestion was, "Personally, I like the second option best. It would take the least effort - we just enable gitlab issues and start focusing our developer attention there. Issues are pulled from Launchpad as there is time/motivation/interest to do so, and whomever pulls them in can re-summarize and improve the bug report to ensure gitlab contains only high quality reports, that our developers actually | Oct 05 12:39 |
| bryce | feel are worthwhile to work on in the immediate term." | Oct 05 12:39 |
| bryce | Moini, you raised some of the best points against that. I'd be interested in hearing if your thinking has changed? | Oct 05 12:39 |
| Moini | Ede123 Thanks! | Oct 05 12:40 |
| bryce | one item you mentioned was what will motivate people to do the migration work, which is a really good question. I don't know for sure, although maybe knowing that it's the way to get attention from a devel on the issue would be enough in some cases? | Oct 05 12:40 |
| Moini | I think that's not motivation, but pressuring. | Oct 05 12:41 |
| Ede_123 | Max had a good idea during the hackfest | Oct 05 12:41 |
| Ede_123 | We could use the 1.0 release to motivate people to file issues they can still reproduce in the nice and shiny new version | Oct 05 12:41 |
| Moini | It was a very kind message, that he wanted to add to all bugs, as far as I remember. | Oct 05 12:41 |
| Ede_123 | exactly | Oct 05 12:42 |
| bryce | another concern was that inevitably this will result in a large loss of information, which is legitimate. If we keep LP turned on, then at least the info isn't gone, just hidden | Oct 05 12:42 |
| Ede_123 | But not just nice but motivated through our new major release to take the edge of the message the tracker will be closed | Oct 05 12:42 |
| doctormon | Nice is always good | Oct 05 12:43 |
| Moini | It must be kept turned on - how would people be able to copy ... erm retest if they don't have access? | Oct 05 12:43 |
| Mc | yes it will have to be kept on | Oct 05 12:44 |
| bryce | it'd be nice if LP could be closed to filing new bugs, although to be honest I think it wouldn't be the end of the world if we had new bug reports getting filed in two places for a while, as we transition | Oct 05 12:46 |
| doctormon | bryce: Each new bug in LP should have a kindly message pointing people towards GitLab. It's what we do for inkscape-web (and now extensions bugs) | Oct 05 12:46 |
| bryce | it's an annoyance for triagers having to check two sites, but honestly I'd have no expectations that anyone would need to keep triaging on LP if they prefer gitlab. | Oct 05 12:46 |
| Mc | the rate of incoming bugs is ok to close them as they arrive | Oct 05 12:47 |
| Moini | We need a clear deadline for closing which can be announced in those messages. | Oct 05 12:47 |
| bryce | doctormon, aha you're right there is a text field for acknowledgement text to send to the reporter. It's currently empty but we could use that to direct them to gitlab | Oct 05 12:48 |
| bryce | Moini, for closing LP? | Oct 05 12:49 |
| doctormon | +1 | Oct 05 12:50 |
| bryce | one of the other concerns raised was how we direct reporters to file bugs | Oct 05 12:50 |
| Moini | bryce yes - or for 'ignoring any new reports from then'. I think it's a huge data loss if we close it, with nobody able to access it, not even devs.... | Oct 05 12:50 |
| Moini | But if it's to be closed, it needs to be clear when, so people can prepare. | Oct 05 12:51 |
| Moini | Why bother if there's no deadline ;-) ? | Oct 05 12:51 |
| bryce | there had been some thinking that it would be beneficial to limit bug filing in the main gitlab repo to keep the quality high, and direct support requests and random low quality reports elsewhere. Does anyone feel we should pursue that angle, or just bulk direct to gitlab and leave it to triaging? | Oct 05 12:52 |
| Moini | Is the data lost as soon as it's closed? | Oct 05 12:52 |
| Moini | Can we ask Canonical for a db dump? | Oct 05 12:52 |
| bryce | Moini, a db dump is a possibility, I think I mentioned that earlier. I don't know how hard that'd be to get, as it may include user data, and the LP support team is short staffed, but in theory it's doable. | Oct 05 12:53 |
| tedg | Probably just as easy to use the Python API to get in a format that's useful for us. | Oct 05 12:53 |
| Ede_123 | I think we agree it should *not* be closed? But we still need a clear-cut date as to when the old tracker stops and the new one starts (officially, obviously the will be some transition period) | Oct 05 12:53 |
| Ede_123 | Or did I miss something? | Oct 05 12:54 |
| bryce | the actual technical toggle is on the Configure Bug Tracker page, to change where "Bugs are tracked" | Oct 05 12:54 |
| Ede_123 | I'd not flick that | Oct 05 12:54 |
| bryce | this would be changing from "In Launchpad" to "In a registered bug tracker" | Oct 05 12:54 |
| bryce | when we want to "close" LP. | Oct 05 12:55 |
| bryce | this won't _destroy_ any data, but I don't know if it'll be accessible after that | Oct 05 12:55 |
| crogers | Rewards could be swag of some sort for top bug-wranglers. | Oct 05 12:55 |
| bryce | (this could be easily tested) | Oct 05 12:55 |
| Mc | crogers: that was my suggestion earlier :p | Oct 05 12:55 |
| crogers | Sorry, missed it. :) | Oct 05 12:56 |
| crogers | Mc, good idea. ;) | Oct 05 12:56 |
| Mc | yeah it was before you arrived | Oct 05 12:56 |
| bryce | Mc, crogers I like the idea of rewarding folks for doing the work; I would just need someone (other than me) to coordinate that effort :-) | Oct 05 12:56 |
| crogers | Mc, again, sorry. :) | Oct 05 12:56 |
| Mc | wait I'll send you the beginning of toays log | Oct 05 12:56 |
| Mc | todays | Oct 05 12:56 |
| crogers | I can do artwork for the swag. | Oct 05 12:57 |
| crogers | If we get funds, I can have them made through vistaprint and shipped wherever. | Oct 05 12:57 |
| bryce | Moini, like Ede_123 says, I don't know if we can guess when that change should be done, it could be far, far off in the future | Oct 05 12:58 |
| Mc | crogers: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/6facb781/ | Oct 05 12:59 |
| Moini | If it's not closed, then it would refer to the date when new reports there are ignored. | Oct 05 12:59 |
| bryce | however it's a very good suggestion to communicate a due date | Oct 05 12:59 |
| Ede_123 | I think Launchpad will just die out on itself... No need to do a "hard" close | Oct 05 12:59 |
| crogers | Mc: thanks. :) rocketchat would fix that problem, btw. :) | Oct 05 12:59 |
| Ede_123 | Just pin a date like Moini suggests that marks the time new reports should be directed to the new tracker | Oct 05 12:59 |
| bryce | perhaps it could be for something tangible, but other than closing LP? Like, a policy change - "We'll no longer be triaging bugs posted to LP after <DATE>"? | Oct 05 13:00 |
| Moini | This would also make it easier for bug triagers to not having to split themselves between two work places. | Oct 05 13:00 |
| Moini | bryce: yes. | Oct 05 13:00 |
| bryce | ok, that works for me | Oct 05 13:00 |
| Mc | crogers: so would being on time 😇 | Oct 05 13:01 |
| doctormon | yes | Oct 05 13:02 |
| crogers | Mc: Fine, I'll just bring it up again when I'm NOT unforgivably late., then shall I? ;) | Oct 05 13:02 |
| Mc | DATE can be 1.0 release | Oct 05 13:02 |
| Ede_123 | bryce: Regarding you erlier comment (having two trackers) and you suggestion from a while back to have a "friendly feedback" place (which would likely be one of the trackers). Should we try to pursue this road? | Oct 05 13:02 |
| bryce | perhaps this will also stimulate new folks to pitch in with the triaging work, esp. if we make the checklist we discussed earlier handy | Oct 05 13:02 |
| bryce | Mc, ah yeah that'd be a meaningful transition point | Oct 05 13:03 |
| Mc | (June 1, 2019) | Oct 05 13:03 |
| Ede_123 | *If* we want to implement something like this, it should probably be done *before* starting a new tracker | Oct 05 13:03 |
| Ede_123 | (which might be filled with whishlist items by then ;-) ) | Oct 05 13:04 |
| bryce | Ede_123, well of course I do think so, but it'd need to be kept simple, we don't have a lot of spare manpower for anything fancy | Oct 05 13:04 |
| Mc | my preferred idea for it would be a separate project in gitlab (gitlab/inkscape/report-bug) so bugs could be easily moved to a devtracker once "confirmed" | Oct 05 13:04 |
| Mc | (this might be equivalent to a single tracker, and a tag) | Oct 05 13:05 |
| Ede_123 | I could imagine a "global" tracker for everything Inkscape, open to every body, in a separate project (like inkscape/report_an_issue) | Oct 05 13:05 |
| Ede_123 | ah, too slow ;-) | Oct 05 13:05 |
| Mc | :) | Oct 05 13:05 |
| Ede_123 | Let's not use tags, though but one central "inbox" from which issues can e sorted into the subprojects (including inkscape main) | Oct 05 13:07 |
| Ede_123 | I'd keep subprojects open, too, though. We have enough experienced users whom I trust with properly filing bugs to the proper subproject on their own | Oct 05 13:08 |
| Ede_123 | The main userbase could be directed towards the "inbox" repo (e.g. via help link and website links) | Oct 05 13:09 |
| Mc | +1 | Oct 05 13:09 |
| bryce | inbox + subprojects sounds interesting, better than tags | Oct 05 13:15 |
| bryce | would need some thought put into what the subprojects should be | Oct 05 13:16 |
| Ede_123 | Same as now (+ inkscape proper) | Oct 05 13:16 |
| Ede_123 | Every repo on GitLab has a tracker already (or most of them) | Oct 05 13:16 |
| bryce | oh you mean the existing subprojects - devel, infra, translation, website, etc. | Oct 05 13:17 |
| Mc | yes | Oct 05 13:17 |
| Mc | we can also add 2geom | Oct 05 13:17 |
| bryce | ok, I thought you meant subprojects within inkscape devel itself, like frontend, backend, import/export, etc. | Oct 05 13:18 |
| bryce | yeah | Oct 05 13:18 |
| Ede_123 | That would lead to far, those can in fact be be handled with tags. | Oct 05 13:18 |
| bryce | I wish I'd put core devel into a subproject from the start. But I think it can be moved | Oct 05 13:19 |
| Ede_123 | You mean a group? | Oct 05 13:19 |
| bryce | Ede_123, yeah subgroup | Oct 05 13:20 |
| Ede_123 | Is it that important? (i.e. what would we gain) | Oct 05 13:21 |
| Ede_123 | We can still create an "inkscape developers" group and assign it to the inkscape/inkscape project if that's what's bugging you | Oct 05 13:21 |
| bryce | I've not pushed to do it, because it isn't critical, but it would permit a bit better team membership management | Oct 05 13:22 |
| Ede_123 | yes, but projects do not need to belong to only one group (that's kinda twisted), but multiple groups can be assigned to one project | Oct 05 13:22 |
| Ede_123 | e.g. "inkscape developers" could also be assigned to "inkscape/lib2geom" | Oct 05 13:23 |
| bryce | consistency is the main goal. I'd like it if each team was organized the same way | Oct 05 13:23 |
| Ede_123 | having "core inkscape" wil actually make that more complicated | Oct 05 13:23 |
| Ede_123 | once we realize we need to split "core" | Oct 05 13:23 |
| bryce | that's useful that projects can belong to multiple groups. So we could have a core devel team and a casual devel team, that both have access to the extensions project, but only the former has access for the core codebase? | Oct 05 13:25 |
| bryce | we're way over time for the meeting, sorry I let this drag out so long. Let's officially close. | Oct 05 13:26 |
| bryce | == End of Meeting == | Oct 05 13:26 |
| Ede_123 | exactly. You'd assign "core devel" to "inkscape/inkscape" and "core devel + casual devel" to "inkscape/extensions" | Oct 05 13:26 |
| bryce | Ede_123, cool, I think that'd do the main thing I want done | Oct 05 13:27 |
| Ede_123 | the only rpoblem right now is that "core devel" (the group) = "inkscape" (the root project) | Oct 05 13:27 |
| bryce | yeah | Oct 05 13:27 |
| bryce | so like, where would 2geom go? part of core? a separate group? | Oct 05 13:27 |
| bryce | could be both I suppose | Oct 05 13:28 |
| crogers | The most common single question at the board meeting is "did I miss the board meeting" | Oct 05 13:28 |
| bryce | crogers, :-D | Oct 05 13:28 |
| crogers | thanks for the recap, Mc | Oct 05 13:28 |
| crogers | Also, new vidya: https://youtu.be/3nf8kwIZEz4 | Oct 05 13:29 |
| Moini | crogers, is the link the same or did it change? | Oct 05 13:29 |
| bryce | Ede_123, I suppose if we think about the tangible effects here - the access permissions - the question is would we want all 2geom committers to have commits on the inkscape codebase? and vice versa? If not, then separate subgroups would make sense. | Oct 05 13:30 |
| bryce | for 2geom it's so closely associated with Inkscape I'm guessing there'd be no trouble with people having equivalent access to both | Oct 05 13:30 |
| Ede_123 | I'd keep them all separate projects as we can always create/assign new groups as needed | Oct 05 13:32 |
| Ede_123 | For example if 2geom is used by another application tomorrow, we could create a group "2geom developers" containing a few of their developers and assign it to 2geom | Oct 05 13:33 |
| Ede_123 | (we'd obviously not want them to be able to push to the inkscape main repo | Oct 05 13:33 |
| bryce | yeah | Oct 05 13:33 |
| crogers | Moini, thgat's a new video | Oct 05 13:38 |
| crogers | Notice it's a different topic. :) | Oct 05 13:39 |
| crogers | There's one more, which was a presentation/discussion by Tav, which I'll edit, then seek his approval to post, then the last video is basically a commercial for the hackfest, to give folks the flavour of the event as a whole. | Oct 05 13:41 |
| crogers | With all the little clips I took. | Oct 05 13:41 |
| Mc | crogers: next time, lavalier microphones for everyone | Oct 05 13:42 |
| crogers | Yes, I'll make a note for that. | Oct 05 13:44 |
| crogers | All wireless no doubt. | Oct 05 13:44 |
| Mc | :D | Oct 05 13:45 |
| crogers | All connected to.... ? :) | Oct 05 13:45 |
| crogers | Some piece of audio equipment I can't fit into my luggage. :) | Oct 05 13:45 |
| crogers | Not to mention the great thrill of trying to get everyone to wear one. | Oct 05 13:46 |
| Moini | crogers: ah, thanks! | Oct 05 13:46 |
| crogers | WAIT STOP THE CONVERSATION! Mic check. ;) | Oct 05 13:46 |
| crogers | Mc, can you start over explaining that? Yea, get a new piece of paper. Your mic was dead. Let's replace the battery and try again. ;) | Oct 05 13:47 |
| Mc | xD | Oct 05 13:47 |
| crogers | Sounds like too much fun to me. ;) | Oct 05 13:47 |
| Mc | maybe ^^ | Oct 05 13:47 |
| crogers | Moini, no problem. :) | Oct 05 13:48 |
| Mc | btw I talked with rocket chat people about IRC | Oct 05 13:49 |
| crogers | Mc, any joy? | Oct 05 13:50 |
| Mc | there are two ways to go, one is a bridge but they could not give me specifics, and one is a federation, which they actually implemented last month (still in beta) | Oct 05 13:50 |
| Mc | federation meaning that the chan would not be on freenode but that rocketchat would *also* behave like an irc server people can connect to | Oct 05 13:51 |
| Ede_123 | "federation"? | Oct 05 13:51 |
| Ede_123 | too late again ^^ | Oct 05 13:51 |
| Ede_123 | so probably not what we want... | Oct 05 13:51 |
| Mc | advantage : accounts on rocket are all irc accounts and vice versa (vs "one bot delivers everththing that is from the other platform") | Oct 05 13:52 |
| Ede_123 | or would we want to move the channel? | Oct 05 13:52 |
| Mc | I like freenode, but I could also connect to a "new" server easily | Oct 05 13:53 |
| Mc | (what I like in freenode is the fact that "on freenode" is quite a standard for open source projects) | Oct 05 13:53 |
| Mc | so it's where people would expect us | Oct 05 13:53 |
| crogers | Sounds good. I also don't mind shifting to another server. | Oct 05 13:53 |
| crogers | But yea, I guess we are more visible here. | Oct 05 13:54 |
| Mc | crogers: you would be able to use the rocketchat interface and no visible IRC | Oct 05 13:54 |
| crogers | to IRC users. | Oct 05 13:54 |
| crogers | I'd probably enjoy that. | Oct 05 13:54 |
| Ede_123 | Mc: So IRC posts actually appear as if they were written directly in Rocket.Chat? | Oct 05 13:54 |
| Mc | yes, that's the idea | Oct 05 13:55 |
| Ede_123 | Not too bad actually... | Oct 05 13:55 |
| christoph_s | moin Moini | Oct 05 13:55 |
| crogers | I'd definitely see more information. | Oct 05 13:55 |
| Mc | ( https://github.com/RocketChat/Rocket.Chat/pull/10113 ) | Oct 05 13:55 |
| Moini | Moin christoph_s! | Oct 05 13:55 |
| Ede_123 | (I was actually planning to try the pidgin implementation soon, as I also think web-based services suck) | Oct 05 13:56 |
| Mc | I'll try to do some tests on servers I own when I get the time | Oct 05 13:56 |
| *Mc has changed the topic to: Inkscape development discussion channel || Next board meeting: `date -d 'TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 10:00 Fri Nov 2'` | Oct 05 13:57 | |
| Ede_123 | "Limitations all the usernames get -irc and -rkt appended to avoid nick conflict problems;" that's a bit wonky - so it''s actually not the *same* account | Oct 05 13:58 |
| Mc | it's one account per distant account, on both sides | Oct 05 13:59 |
| Mc | otherwise there would be name conflicts I guess ? | Oct 05 13:59 |
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