Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2019-01-04

Tavmjong============ Inkscape Board Meeting ==============Jan 04 10:01
Tavmjong 04 10:02
TavmjongWho's here?Jan 04 10:02
Mco/Jan 04 10:02
bryceheyaJan 04 10:02
bryce== Agenda ==Jan 04 10:03
bryce* Hackfest [ SCALE]Jan 04 10:03
bryce** March 7th-10th, 2019 (Pasadena, California)Jan 04 10:03
bryce** Need to identify potential attendees to invite.Jan 04 10:03
bryce* Hackfest [ LGM 2019]Jan 04 10:03
bryce** May 30th-June 3rd (Saarbrucken, Germany) Proposed.Jan 04 10:03
bryce** Need event host/coordinatorJan 04 10:03
bryce* SpreadshirtJan 04 10:03
bryce** Final touchupsJan 04 10:03
bryce** Schedule for public kickoffJan 04 10:03
bryce** MarketingJan 04 10:03
bryce* Bug tracker transition planJan 04 10:03
bryce* Weblate service deploymentJan 04 10:03
bryce* Inkscape ForumsJan 04 10:03
bryce* Wiki migrationJan 04 10:03
bryce* Sponsorship managementJan 04 10:03
bryce  + Meeting w/ Karen on Conservancy assistanceJan 04 10:03
bryce  + Sponsor acceptance policyJan 04 10:03
bryce  + Renewal of old sponsorsJan 04 10:03
bryce  + Sponsor soliciting / outreachJan 04 10:03
bryce* 2019 BudgetJan 04 10:03
bryce  + Current balancesJan 04 10:03
bryce  + Plans for next yearJan 04 10:03
bryce* Other BusinessJan 04 10:03
bryce Jan 04 10:03
bryce(there were a couple more items to add to the agenda from what I posted last night - forums and wiki migration)Jan 04 10:03
brycetedg, are you online?Jan 04 10:04
bryce Jan 04 10:04
bryce== Hackfest Pasadena / SCALE ==Jan 04 10:04
TavmjongI think we need to do some recruiting...Jan 04 10:05
bryceagreedJan 04 10:05
brycethere is a start of an invitation list on the hackfest wiki page, but I wonder if more could be added to itJan 04 10:05
McI might come if I'm in the US thenJan 04 10:05
TavmjongCertainly...Jan 04 10:06
bryceMc that'd be great!Jan 04 10:06
brycewe also need a fundraising page set upJan 04 10:06
bryceguessing that it's waiting for the vote to be finalizedJan 04 10:06
Mc(i would be on the other side (Harvard) but I can make the trip)Jan 04 10:06
brycesorry for the errors in the referendum.Jan 04 10:07
Mcit happens with copypastes :pJan 04 10:07
Tavmjong 04 10:07
bryceyeahJan 04 10:07
TavmjongMc, can you add your name?Jan 04 10:07
McsureJan 04 10:07
bryceI'm hoping to finalize the vote, if there's no objections, so people can start making travel arrangements asapJan 04 10:08
Moinibryce: A fundraising news article is in the making. Michèle is waiting for more info from TedJan 04 10:08
Moini 04 10:08
bryceMoini, ok.  What info is needed?  I may be able to answer some questionsJan 04 10:08
TavmjongNeed to ping KK, any other North American based people we should ping?Jan 04 10:08
MoiniI'll tag you from the issue, then you'll have it in your email, bryce.Jan 04 10:09
brycemoini, ok thanks. I'll follow up on thoseJan 04 10:09
MoiniMc, pack doctormo into your suitcase :)Jan 04 10:10
bryceTavmjong, can you do your own travel expense estimation today?  If it comes in over $2000 let me know and we can talk about adjustments to the total amount.Jan 04 10:10
McMoini: I'll do that :DJan 04 10:11
Tavmjongbryce, Sure... (though I may already be in the US)Jan 04 10:11
TavmjongLooks like we have six votes for the hackfest.Jan 04 10:12
brycethere was an action item regarding Inkscape presenters at SCALE, that ryan had, but I'm guessing it's far too late.  Unless anyone disagrees I'm going to drop that action.Jan 04 10:12
Mcryangorley: ^ ?Jan 04 10:13
brycethis may be a good time to start brainstorming topics + agenda for the hackfestJan 04 10:13
TavmjongQuestion, is it worth staying an extra day for SCALE and would that be reimbursable?Jan 04 10:13
brycejot ideas into wiki, as usual :-)Jan 04 10:13
bryceany other ideas / thinking / planning needed for the pasadena hackfest?Jan 04 10:14
ryangorleybryce: I haven't heard back from them if my presentation has been accepted. I don't know if they had enough applications for a Libregraphics track. I can reach out and see if having another speaker would make that possible.Jan 04 10:15
*crogers is here too.Jan 04 10:15
ryangorleybryce: I think we could still get an Inkscape booth like last year (regardless of the presentation situation)Jan 04 10:17
ryangorleyLast year we took the booth down EOD saturday.Jan 04 10:18
brycedo you guys think we should get a booth?Jan 04 10:18
bryceok, ryangorley maybe we can discuss it more on the gitlab ticketJan 04 10:19
bryce== Hackfest Saarbrucken ==Jan 04 10:19
bryceI put out the call for a volunteer to host/coordinate the event.  Sounds like houz can help but doesn't want the full task, so we need at least one more person to assistJan 04 10:20
Mcideally someone speaking german then :pJan 04 10:20
crogersWish I could come.Jan 04 10:21
bryce 04 10:21
MoiniI don't know yet if I'll attend. I would help if there are any language barriers for the person who organizes.Jan 04 10:21
brycethe main task, that I think is a blocker before we can do the vote, is to identify the venue to have it inJan 04 10:22
bryceand an important second task is to start sketching in names at 04 10:22
TavmjongIf we don't find a German speaking volunteer, I might be able to do it.Jan 04 10:23
Mcit's easy for me to go to saarbrucken (my grandmother lives 10km from there), but I don't speak germanJan 04 10:23
bryceI've added the confirmed / unconfirmed / invites headers to the attendees page, so if you or someone you know are a maybe for the event please add to the unconfirmed sectionJan 04 10:25
brycealso if you know inkscapers in europe please add them to the invite listJan 04 10:25
octycsI do speak German, but I'm completely new and haven't participated in / organized anything like this before. Guess I can't help that much, sadly don't even know yet whether I could attend :/Jan 04 10:27
crogerscan we get some funds for hackfest stickers?Jan 04 10:27
crogersJust to cover the printing cost.Jan 04 10:27
brycecrogers, sureJan 04 10:27
crogersThanks.Jan 04 10:27
brycedo we want stickers for the SCALE event too?Jan 04 10:27
McsureJan 04 10:28
crogersAssuming people like them as a take-away. :)Jan 04 10:28
ryangorleybryce: could be nice to have the stickers as a giveaway at the booth at SCALEJan 04 10:28
McInkscape stickers tend to be very popular (they disappear first when I put them somewhere)Jan 04 10:28
bryceACTION: Arrange vote for funds for stickers for the two 2019 hackfests [bryce]Jan 04 10:28
bryceryangorley, ah good ideaJan 04 10:28
crogersI still have a load of Inkscape foil stickers.Jan 04 10:28
crogerslemme see how many...Jan 04 10:28
*crogers checks the drawer of sorrowsJan 04 10:29
ryangorleycrogers: I think we gave away all the foil stickers we had at the last SCALE event. They're super popular. :)Jan 04 10:29
crogersryangorley, can you remember approx how many that was?Jan 04 10:30
ryangorleyHmm. I don't remember.Jan 04 10:30
ryangorleyA stack :)Jan 04 10:31
ryangorleyGive or take a pileJan 04 10:31
bryceoctycs, I hope you can attend!  I'll add you to a list of maybe helpers, along with mc, maren, and houzJan 04 10:31
bryceryangorley, how many should we budget for with this event?Jan 04 10:32
Mca few thousand stickers ? :pJan 04 10:32
ryangorleyMc bryce: Not a few thousand, there weren't that many people there. A few hundred. The conservancy booth was giving them away too.Jan 04 10:33
crogersWell, I have a couple hundred left it look slike.Jan 04 10:33
crogerswitout climbing too far back in the drawer.Jan 04 10:34
crogersis that enough?Jan 04 10:34
ryangorleyYeah, I would imagine.Jan 04 10:34
crogersOkay. Let me know who to ship them too, and I'll get them there.Jan 04 10:34
ryangorleyWe can hand them out on the streets if we have too many. That's always effective marketing ;)Jan 04 10:35
crogersOr save them for next time. :)Jan 04 10:35
ryangorley:PJan 04 10:35
crogersWhich is why we still have some. ;)Jan 04 10:35
ryangorleyI'm sure they'll be well receivedJan 04 10:35
Tavmjongbryce, at them moment, flying Norwegian, it would be a total of $1200 to attend the Pasadena hackfest from Paris. (But Norwegian is at risk of going bankrupt.)Jan 04 10:35
bryceare the stickers general purpose or do they say SCALE on them?Jan 04 10:35
crogersI'd hand them out to the chior - people who are already all about FLOSS.Jan 04 10:35
ryangorleycrogers is referring to some generic foil stickersJan 04 10:35
bryceah gotchaJan 04 10:36
crogersgeneric? :(Jan 04 10:36
crogers;)Jan 04 10:36
ryangorleyIf we do new ones, the hexagon stickers are the rage these days.Jan 04 10:36
Mc^^Jan 04 10:36
ryangorleycrogers: general purpose ;)Jan 04 10:36
crogersryangorley, yea, I know. ;)Jan 04 10:36
bryceok, let's move onJan 04 10:36
bryce== Spreadshirt ==Jan 04 10:36
crogersMc wants hexagon stickers?Jan 04 10:36
McnahJan 04 10:37
crogersI can design those. Is it worth looking into for the hackfests too? if so, what size?Jan 04 10:37
McI prefer diversity of shapesJan 04 10:37
brycehexagon stickers are pretty spiffyJan 04 10:37
crogersYea. circle also fits gear shape better.Jan 04 10:37
Mcyou should ask gnome, they have a dozen different for their subprojectsJan 04 10:37
brycethere is a standard dimension that people are usingJan 04 10:37
crogersOkay.Jan 04 10:38
crogersWell, maybe we should continue witht he circle ones for now, or would anyone like me to take a serious look at hexagon ones?Jan 04 10:38
bryce 04 10:38
Mccrogers: 04 10:39
crogersthnksJan 04 10:39
bryceI know you're super busy, so the usual circle ones would be fine for the hackfests.  But I'd love to see us with a good hex option at some pointJan 04 10:39
crogersokay.Jan 04 10:40
crogersYea, they are cool.Jan 04 10:40
doctormon-mobmeeting?Jan 04 10:40
bryceok, speaking of busy, crogers has been hammering Spreadshirt into final shapeJan 04 10:40
crogersclearly making some people super picky about the shape too from the look of that picture. ;)Jan 04 10:40
Mc has a svg template :DJan 04 10:40
crogersspeaking of hammering...Jan 04 10:40
brycecrogers, thanks for tackling those remaining bits yesterdayJan 04 10:41
crogersspreadshirt can't seem to stop making their shit worse. :)Jan 04 10:41
bryceyeah :-/Jan 04 10:41
crogersLike, they just can't seem to help themselves.Jan 04 10:41
doctormon-moblol, sorry to hear thatJan 04 10:41
crogersthey have someone there who I guarantee is a designer, who is like. Nah, flat graphic isn't good enough, we need to have a shitty algorithm to distort whatever they upload so it looks like it's on the 3d object were selling.Jan 04 10:42
crogersproblem is, they are a shitty designer.Jan 04 10:42
bryceI agree, and I don't think it's worth more time trying to optimize it, let's just get it launched so people can order from it, and move our focus to other merchandisersJan 04 10:42
Mcfor now I'm still very happy of my hellotux shirtJan 04 10:43
crogers(there are far more shitty designers than one might think)Jan 04 10:43
crogersYea, hellotux hasn't been very responsive, but I'm glad the shirt is good quality.Jan 04 10:43
jabiertxof<offtopic>crogers when have some times could you give impression in the chat UX about the work on logo from brigazvi, no hurry but I love the diamon shape (¿Maybe hexagon?) in conjuntion of the avout screen devel icon versionz</offtopic>Jan 04 10:43
crogersno reply yet to my request for a black shirt, and/or the womens cuts.Jan 04 10:43
doctormon-mobthe best product we've had has been those metal stickersJan 04 10:43
crogersjabiertxof, yea, lets' talk about it after the meeting.Jan 04 10:44
jabiertxof:)Jan 04 10:44
crogersYea, I wish I could find a way to make enough to warrant selling them myself.Jan 04 10:45
brycecan we set a launch date for spreadshirt?  Could we do it this weekend?Jan 04 10:45
crogersIt depends on how picky we are.Jan 04 10:45
Mccan we make it this weekend in conjunction with the .92.4 and 1.0-alpha releases ?Jan 04 10:45
MoiniAh, this is this weekend?Jan 04 10:45
crogersI mean I would not buy the mugs given the new preview.Jan 04 10:45
MoiniI'll be busy...Jan 04 10:46
zigzagmltWe need to know when deadlines are coming up for release articles!Jan 04 10:46
MoiniYes, would be nice...Jan 04 10:47
zigzagmltAhead of time. I am less available this weekend too.Jan 04 10:47
crogers 04 10:47
bryceok, so not this weekend :-)Jan 04 10:47
McWe can delay.Jan 04 10:47
crogersI'm almost tempted to take the mugs off until they don't look melted. :PJan 04 10:47
Moinicrogers, lol, a bit distorted...Jan 04 10:48
crogersIt just makes me so mad that the idiot that thought this was a good idea is employed. XPJan 04 10:48
MoiniWhat's it called - barrel deformation?Jan 04 10:48
Mctake his job !Jan 04 10:48
zigzagmltCan we be respectful, please? Thank you.Jan 04 10:49
Moini(when done correctly)Jan 04 10:49
crogersI would not work for any company with a 2-star Trustpilot rating. :)Jan 04 10:49
*ryangorley Wondering if I should tell crogers I'm working at spreadshirt secretly doing this stuff.Jan 04 10:49
bryceI should have time this coming week to work on release stuff.  No idea how much time it'll take but if we want to coordinate the shop with the 0.92.4 announcement then maybe we could pencil in 2 weeks?Jan 04 10:49
*crogers grins at ryangorley knowing his standards are better than this. ;)Jan 04 10:50
McmhJan 04 10:50
McokJan 04 10:50
MoiniWon't be available on 18th, but after or before.Jan 04 10:50
zigzagmltIdeally before would work for me...Jan 04 10:50
brycealright, then say 16th or thereabouts?Jan 04 10:50
Moinizigzagmlt, we can prepare everything.Jan 04 10:51
crogersWell, post the spreadshirt thing whenever. We will patch it as we can.Jan 04 10:51
zigzagmltPerfect, Moini!Jan 04 10:51
doctormon-mobdo we have the proposed changes for the website ready for the release day?Jan 04 10:51
crogersThe quality apparently isn't terrible. the worst thing is people will not buy the mugs.Jan 04 10:51
Moinicrogers, can you add info to the article, then? I guess we'll have a single one (problem with website front page only showing 2 articles at once)Jan 04 10:52
bryceif it looks like anything will slip, we can push the date forward +7 days as a plan BJan 04 10:52
Moinifor both shops, I mean, and not article, but 'issue about hellotux'.Jan 04 10:52
crogersMoini, I don't have time to do articles this week.Jan 04 10:52
MoiniJust add info, please - like, links etc.Jan 04 10:52
crogersI spend a few hours re-doing all the inkscape merch today with the modified design.Jan 04 10:53
MoiniMichèle will make it nice.Jan 04 10:53
MoiniThat's info, too :)Jan 04 10:53
zigzagmltTrying to!Jan 04 10:53
crogersThere's no drop-shadow under the white bits now,Jan 04 10:53
ryangorleyzigzagmlt is doing awesome with that stuff!Jan 04 10:53
Mcdoctormon-mob: I have questions about how functional the extensions are at the momentJan 04 10:53
bryce(brb, kids going crazy...)Jan 04 10:53
crogersso it should not have the glowing halo effect that we saw on Mc's TeeJan 04 10:53
Moinithird-party ext. have some weird behaviour - I've got one duplicated.Jan 04 10:54
Moinidoctormon-mob which changes?Jan 04 10:55
doctormon-mobchanges to the shield if others want changesJan 04 10:55
doctormon-mobMc: there are some holes, I need to organise a review.Jan 04 10:55
Moinidoctormon-mob I don't think those people know how to do that.Jan 04 10:56
MoiniThe image seemed ready.Jan 04 10:56
jabiertxoffor alternative to spread shop I sigesst speack with Dillerkind Shop platform about this is a very good drawer that do all with inkscape and shop online diferent pieces, we can get fieedback about his shop plataform previosly to spend time inside. 04 10:56
doctormon-mobit's not needed to know how, I'll do it if the name description button text and image are ready.Jan 04 10:57
Moinidoctormon, let them know what you need on the issue and tag them.Jan 04 10:57
MoiniAnd add a deadline :)Jan 04 10:57
prkosjabiertxof: I've already asked Dillerkind about his shop, he didn't have any useful feedback for us about itJan 04 10:58
Mcif possible can we have shipped extensions working before the 15th ?Jan 04 10:58
jabiertxofthanks prkos!Jan 04 10:58
bryceok, we're about at the hour but I'd like to get through a few more agenda items if it's okJan 04 10:59
bryce== Bug tracker transitional plan ==Jan 04 10:59
brycethe plan we've discussed is to announce the bug transition plan as part of the 0.92.4 announcement.  Does that still seem feasible?Jan 04 10:59
brycecrogers, I worry this is all too much on your time right now...Jan 04 11:00
Mcin 10 days ? yesJan 04 11:00
*Moini wonders if Alvin ha been included in the planning discussions now?Jan 04 11:01
MoinihasJan 04 11:01
bryceCR's been working with Terry BrownJan 04 11:01
bryceMoini, what is Alvin's focus?Jan 04 11:02
MoiniBug triage.Jan 04 11:02
MoiniHe's the main triager on lp (other than devs)Jan 04 11:03
crogersYea, so update on the bug migration.Jan 04 11:03
crogersWhere do I start? lolJan 04 11:04
crogersI guess the only one here who's in on the conversation is Bryce. :)Jan 04 11:04
crogersDoes anyone want a full rundown + update?Jan 04 11:04
Mccrogers: ?Jan 04 11:04
crogersOf the Bug migration game we have planned?Jan 04 11:05
bryceyeah we should improve visibility on this, although I know there's some surprise elementsJan 04 11:05
brycecrogers, yes this would be a great time to give a rundownJan 04 11:05
Mccrogers: I'm interested in an update, where is this discussed ?Jan 04 11:05
crogersOkayJan 04 11:05
Moini(bryce: 04 11:06
crogersOver email, mainly until we could see what we could do. Terry has been our volunteer Python guru, and deserves most of the credit for this thing actually maybe working. :)Jan 04 11:06
bryce(then I'd like to let prkos have the floor regarding forums, and maybe discuss mediawiki migration if there's time, then we can leave the rest for next meeting)Jan 04 11:06
crogers------- Begin bug migration talk -------Jan 04 11:07
crogersSo since we want all our bugs checked to see if they are still valid before we move them, we thought of gamifying it so that people compete for most bugs migrated.Jan 04 11:08
crogersSo the original idea was to make a leaderboard with usernames of people on Gitlab who have migrated bugs, their total bug point count, and some badges.Jan 04 11:09
crogerswe made some badges (which will be shipped as stickers after the event is over) for large numbers of bugs moved: 100 - 1000Jan 04 11:10
crogers100, 500, 1000 (maybe more)Jan 04 11:10
crogersbronze, silver, gold, etc.Jan 04 11:10
crogers 04 11:11
crogerslike that. :)Jan 04 11:11
crogersSo everyone who moves more than 100 bugs gets a sticker.Jan 04 11:12
Mc100 is an enourmous amount if you have to verify the bugJan 04 11:12
crogersthe top bug migrators on the leaderboard each get some bit of Inkscape swag too.Jan 04 11:12
crogersMc, agreed. :) Though some bugs can be moved will just a quick look.Jan 04 11:13
Mcquick + check for duplicates on gitlabJan 04 11:13
crogersWhy would there be duplicates on gitlab?Jan 04 11:14
Mcbecause there are dups on lpJan 04 11:14
MoiniYou won't get to ship more than 2 or three badges.Jan 04 11:14
crogersAh. hmmJan 04 11:14
MoiniVery economical.Jan 04 11:14
McI would start at 10 bugs :pJan 04 11:14
zigzagmltBut a pity - the badge is awesome!Jan 04 11:14
crogersHeh, well there are over 4k bugs so. :)Jan 04 11:14
crogersI'm expecting this to take a while. :)Jan 04 11:14
doctormon-mobthat's going to be one hell of a long tail geaphJan 04 11:15
doctormon-mobgraphJan 04 11:15
MoiniI expect this will take 3 years.Jan 04 11:15
rindolfdoctormon-mob: hi, sup?Jan 04 11:15
crogersDepends on how many bug migrators we get.Jan 04 11:15
Mcalso, what to do with bugs that only happen on .92.4 but not on 1.0alpha ?Jan 04 11:15
MoiniBut I agree the sticker is awesome :)Jan 04 11:15
doctormon-mobI'm so glad this is happening, I haven't been able to post to bugs on launchpad for over a year now. so frustratingJan 04 11:15
Moinirindolf - board meeting.Jan 04 11:16
crogersSo then we were like: okay, that's cool, but how do we get more people to play.Jan 04 11:16
MctwitterJan 04 11:16
brycemight not be a bad idea to make the first level fairly approachable, although since shipping the stickers will cost some $, we may not want to make it *too* easyJan 04 11:16
zigzagmltTwitter!Jan 04 11:16
crogersYes, social media. :)Jan 04 11:16
Moinidoctormon-mob Did they throw you out?Jan 04 11:16
doctormon-mobmaybe the first level is a print your own ;)Jan 04 11:16
zigzagmltA description of the kinds of bugs to be fixed, checked, so we can share that. A social media campaign for this?Jan 04 11:16
Mcif 25% of our twitter followers migrate one bug, we're doneJan 04 11:16
crogersstill explaining here, can I have the floor? :)Jan 04 11:17
doctormon-mobI get a 500 error when I try and post comments etc on lpJan 04 11:17
rindolfMoini: okJan 04 11:17
crogersSo we wanted to make it less about just the points, because invariably, there will be some really hard core people who will own the top three places.Jan 04 11:18
crogersThus, hidden in the writhing mass of bugs will be 1K  "special" bugs.Jan 04 11:18
crogersWhen you find a special bug, it's added to your badges.Jan 04 11:19
crogers(and maybe you get extra points, still working on that bit)Jan 04 11:19
crogersThere are 20 kinds of special bugs.Jan 04 11:20
crogerswhen a new kind is discovered by someone, we make a big deal about it to all our social media platforms.Jan 04 11:20
MoiniIs that automated?Jan 04 11:21
crogersWe say for example: "J.Willis has discovered a new kind of special bug! The Taco Bug! Great Job Willis."Jan 04 11:21
crogersMoini, not yet.Jan 04 11:22
crogersThe leaderboard is, and much of the actual game is too though.Jan 04 11:22
crogersAnd I have made illustrations and animations for all 20 special bugs.Jan 04 11:23
crogersSo the idea is along with the fame of being at the top, we also make it about collecting special bugs.Jan 04 11:23
brycethey look great :-)Jan 04 11:23
doctormon-mobthey are aceJan 04 11:24
Mcdo you count closing obsolete bugs as migrated ?Jan 04 11:24
crogersso even if you're just getting started, there's still plenty of stuff to find.Jan 04 11:24
crogersMc, absolutely.Jan 04 11:24
crogersThose are "put out to pasture" following the bug migration theme. ;)Jan 04 11:25
McneatJan 04 11:25
brycethe point value is less though, if I remember right?Jan 04 11:25
Mcwhat about wishlist ?Jan 04 11:25
Mc(there are probably a thousand of them)Jan 04 11:25
crogers 04 11:26
crogersThere's a taco bug for example. :)Jan 04 11:26
McJan 04 11:26
crogersAll made in inkscape and animated in BlenderJan 04 11:26
zigzagmlt8-)) Great job, crogers!Jan 04 11:27
brycecrogers, did we decide what to do about wishlist bugs?  I don't remember if we discussed it.Jan 04 11:27
crogersnot sure about wishlist bugs, but I mean, yea, why not?Jan 04 11:27
brycehonestly if we can get the bug bugs migrated, I'd be fine leaving the wishlist bugs as a separate thing to deal with some other wayJan 04 11:28
crogersWell, the nice thing about this is we just let other people do it lol.Jan 04 11:28
bryceI know developers haven't liked having them mixed in with the bugs, so feels like might be better to keep distinct in some fashionJan 04 11:28
crogersThat's why it's worth making 20 animated illustrations, and sending out collections of bug stickers after the bugs are migrated.Jan 04 11:29
crogersbryce, sure. Can you bring that up on the email thread with Terry?Jan 04 11:29
brycesureJan 04 11:29
crogersThanks.Jan 04 11:30
MoiniTags can be used to differentiate.Jan 04 11:30
crogersSo at the end, I'm thinking of letting people trade bugs as a social thing before shipping them out.Jan 04 11:30
brycewe should also bring him in on rollout scheduling discussionsJan 04 11:30
crogersDefinitely.Jan 04 11:31
crogersThis is just a catchup for everyone on the board atm. :)Jan 04 11:31
bryceACTION: Discuss scheduling for rollout of bug transition game with Terry [crogers, bryce]Jan 04 11:31
crogersafter we have the game set up we will bring it to the vectors tooJan 04 11:31
crogersalso, merry xmasJan 04 11:31
crogers 04 11:32
bryce:-)Jan 04 11:32
bryceok, anything else on bugs?Jan 04 11:32
crogersThat's pretty much it I think.Jan 04 11:33
bryce== Inkscape Forums ==Jan 04 11:33
bryceprkos, you wanted to discuss a bit?Jan 04 11:33
crogersOh, those who I've shown special bugs to, remember to keep them to yourself for now, since they are supposed to be a surprise revealed over the course of the game.Jan 04 11:33
brycethanks crogers!Jan 04 11:33
prkosyes, I'm not sure how detailed you need me to beJan 04 11:33
prkosI'll post a short overview then we can discuss if anyone wants toJan 04 11:34
bryceprkos, start brief and see where the discussion goes?Jan 04 11:34 has been the largest forum for Inkscape community discussions since its inception over 10 years ago, so it might be called semi-official, even though it is a privately owned siteJan 04 11:34
prkosThe forum owner's (microUgly) interests started diverging away from the community in the past few years, and the situation around Inkscape community technical resources and abilities improved, so the forum owner kindly agreed to transfer the site to the community to preserve priceless advice and other content found thereJan 04 11:34
prkosThe first part of the transfer - domain name - was successful: the Inkscape community now owns the domainJan 04 11:35
prkosThe second part of the transfer - forum site - didn't go as planned: we haven't received the forum backup files so we could migrate it to own hosting accountJan 04 11:35
prkosSince we've been waiting for the forum migration for the past year without success it is now time to come up with a Plan B about the official Inkscape forumJan 04 11:35
prkosThe original content can be hosted as a read-only archive, from the same domain. We already have some progress in the area of making static content backups, thanks Javier!Jan 04 11:35
prkosSo we are now free to decide on what the official Inkscape forum should look like. It makes sense to make it a part of the official Inkscape website, and if possible share the login accountsJan 04 11:35
prkosThere seem to be two options to choose from: Martin's (doctormo) new forum code integrated with the django website, or a dedicated forum software installation (SMF or phpBB)Jan 04 11:36
prkosMartin has done an amazing job implementing forum features, and Javier (jabiertxof) and Mihaela (prkos) helped with styling, Maren (moini) and Brynn helped with testing and feedbackJan 04 11:36
prkosIt may not be as polished as a dedicated solution, and there are still things to iron out, but the preference seems to be slightly in favour of the Martin's integrated solutionJan 04 11:36
prkosBut since Martin is such a key figure in maintaining the website, which is a huge feat in itself, and he's a key figure in parts of Inkscape development, is it too much of a burden to put another large chunk of responsibility on one man's shoulders? Are we taking away resources needed for Inkscape development to solve community problems that can be solved in other ways?Jan 04 11:36
McI like phpBB ^^Jan 04 11:36
prkosHow can we made sure we build the infrastructure we need and keep things running smoothly? There are concerns about "closing" up the solution by making it rely on one person.Jan 04 11:37
prkosthere's a short intro :DJan 04 11:37
prkosdiscuss!Jan 04 11:37
jabiertxofprkos jabier plese is oficial name becaus e I can change in spainJan 04 11:38
jabiertxofcan'tJan 04 11:38
doctormon-mobonce code is stable, there's little to maintain above the background noise. but there's concern that we don't have good person coverage for the website. I understand the limitations.Jan 04 11:38
bryceyes, lots of good work all around, and props to doctormon-mob for implementing something that can be part of the overall websiteJan 04 11:38
prkosjabiertxof: oh sorry I'll keep the b :)Jan 04 11:39
jabiertxof:) npJan 04 11:39
jabiertxofI like more a custom forum, we can switch to others if no sucess.Jan 04 11:41
doctormon-mobBryce do you have any concerns?Jan 04 11:41
prkoshow do we decide on criteria about when a switch is necessary?Jan 04 11:42
prkoshow do we even decide on which route to start with?Jan 04 11:43
ryangorleyThe greatest benefit I see to a custom solution is possible integration with the gallery. The greatest benefit to a third-party solution is that we don't need to keep up with changes in how people use forums over the next 10 years (someone else is worrying about that).Jan 04 11:43
jabiertxofI could try to help Martin, but need to split my time between c++ and python.Jan 04 11:44
McI think the current users of the forum should decodeJan 04 11:44
Mcdecide*Jan 04 11:44
ryangorley^^ Feature and useability changes is what I meanJan 04 11:44
bryceI think prkos made a good summary.  I do worry that too much gets added to the main website, but the major thing is how the overall community feels about changes.Jan 04 11:44
jabiertxofnormaly people dont want changes and withouit changes no adbanceJan 04 11:45
jabiertxofas users they dont want to change I think is a board decission what is best for inkscapeJan 04 11:46
doctormon-mobI don't think the board can decide. it's not in the remitJan 04 11:46
Mc+1Jan 04 11:46
crogers+1Jan 04 11:46
Mcit's a community issueJan 04 11:46
crogersyup.Jan 04 11:46
Mcso the affected community (forum users) should have their sayJan 04 11:47
doctormon-mobwe can decide to link people up to it and see if it takes.Jan 04 11:47
prkosif the community needs to make a decision, which question should they answer?Jan 04 11:47
zigzagmltHow best can we rally the community to share the news and get their opinion, feedback on the forum changes coming up? A clear question would help.Jan 04 11:47
jabiertxofok, wee need to dressup the benefits for custom codeJan 04 11:47
prkosif they decide on Martin's solution then we need to make him commit as many hours as we want on the forum?Jan 04 11:47
Mcprkos: choice between custom (which can be further developed and integrated) vs self-hosted phpBB-like stuff (familiar but separated from website)Jan 04 11:48
doctormon-mobit's not magic, anyone with half a python could help tbh. I didn't write it from scratch, lots of existing tools in use.Jan 04 11:48
prkoswhat about other Martin's work, the website and Inkscape code?Jan 04 11:48
MoiniThose current users that replied said they want phpBB, or they don't see an issue with the forum.Jan 04 11:48
MoiniBut there were only two on the thread. The others keep out of the discussion.Jan 04 11:49
Moini:-(Jan 04 11:49
doctormon-mobthe community that we end up with may not entirely be the inkscapeforum community in the end.Jan 04 11:49
MoiniPersonally, I'd have preferred phpBB, too. But I wouldn't do the hosting/admin part, so that opinion is moot.Jan 04 11:50
prkosI sure hope we get a lot more people, since we have a large website hit statsJan 04 11:50
MoiniStill, there may be a backlash if the original forum is closed.Jan 04 11:50
prkosMoini: if that's the logic then community shouldn't have any say unless they do the coding :)Jan 04 11:51
MoiniThe one who does it wins.Jan 04 11:51
prkosit makes sense people will complain if we take away something they rely onJan 04 11:51
prkosbut we're only moving it to another domainJan 04 11:52
zigzagmltso how do we sell the transition as a benefit for the community?Jan 04 11:52
crogersI think if you build it, they will eventually migrate.Jan 04 11:53
prkosand if we implement all the features they expect to see, and things are working correctly, we'll have a larger and stronger community in the endJan 04 11:53
MoiniI don't think anyone will migrate on their own.Jan 04 11:53
MoiniUnless the original one is closed, or doesn't work anymore.Jan 04 11:53
crogersTHought it was read-only?Jan 04 11:53
crogersthat would migrate me. :)Jan 04 11:53
brycecrogers, no we have a read-only snapshot but the original site is still interactiveJan 04 11:54
MoiniWe have a copy that is updated regularly.Jan 04 11:54
MoiniThanks to Jabier and Bryce.Jan 04 11:54
prkoswe are preparing a read-only mirror in case it closesJan 04 11:54
crogersAhhhhJan 04 11:54
crogersSo the ship is sinking.Jan 04 11:54
crogersprobably. :)Jan 04 11:54
crogersthat would also migrate me.Jan 04 11:55
bryceit sounds like we have a few separate questions at play here.Jan 04 11:55
prkosit's better be safe than sorry, since it's been very difficult to get in contact with the forum ownerJan 04 11:55
prkosand no luck to get the forum files to migrate the whole last yearJan 04 11:55
brycea big one is changing or shutting down the domain; this does feel like it might be a board question since it's an asset we manage.Jan 04 11:55
crogersWell, I say build a basic replacement with phpBBJan 04 11:55
crogersthen announce the opening of it on our social mediaJan 04 11:56
crogersput a link to it in all help areas of the website.Jan 04 11:56
Moinicrogers, have you seen what Martin made?... 04 11:56
brycea second, separate, issue is implementing a forum on the website.  It's separate in the sense of it could be implemented regardless of what happens to inkscapeforum.comJan 04 11:56
brycea third question is whether to try to encourage migration of the community to a different site, and how that can best be performed.  This part is what I feel should involve that community's input.Jan 04 11:57
prkosbryce: correctJan 04 11:57
crogersMoini, oh yes! actually, I'm supposed to be helping with the graphics on it. ;PJan 04 11:57
Moinicrogers - lots of work!Jan 04 11:57
doctormon-mobI've been fending off jabiers icons for you crodgersJan 04 11:57
crogershahahaJan 04 11:58
crogersSorry, I'll try and get you a good icon set soon.Jan 04 11:58
doctormon-mob:)Jan 04 11:58
ryangorleyI don't want to take away from the great work that has been done. I don't mean this to sound ungrateful. But have we asked ourselves if the project should be taking on the work of a forum in the first place?Jan 04 11:59
MoiniTbh. I would like to have less official places to get help from rather than more.Jan 04 11:59
MoiniWould simplify things for people giving support.Jan 04 11:59
doctormon-mobfewer or less moini? important differenceJan 04 11:59
brycegiven what doctormon-mob, prkos, and moini said above about possibly ending up with a different community than what's on currently, I kind of wonder if the least angst-producing approach would be to work on Q#2 and postpone #1 and #3 for now, and see what happensJan 04 11:59
MoinifewerJan 04 12:00
crogersDoes this forum have the ability to use spam auto-filtering like Akismet?Jan 04 12:00
MoiniYes.Jan 04 12:00
brycelike crogers says, if were to disappear, then if we had a place for them to move to, then #3 (and #1) kind of would take care of themselvesJan 04 12:00
crogersI think phpBB does.Jan 04 12:00
prkosthe first issue seems like a given, we keep the domain and its contents, no matter if it's static if we have a live replacement, we can wait until it crashes on its own, keep leeching static backups, and switch to static once the live one diesJan 04 12:00
bryceprkos, yes rightJan 04 12:01
doctormon-mobthe forum on has spam filtering, as requested by brynnJan 04 12:01
crogersniceJan 04 12:01
crogersThat's my only real concern. It seems a good system to me otherwise.Jan 04 12:01
doctormon-mobwhat icon do you want crogers? I can add a reward flag to your user :)Jan 04 12:02
MoiniBeen hoping we can close some... It's getting a lot of work to look through each of them.Jan 04 12:02
crogersdoctormon-mob, a reward for what? For not quite getting you any useful graphics yet? ;PJan 04 12:03
brycedoctormon-mob, I know you said that maintenance work would be zero after launch, but knowing how users are I wonder if that might be optimistic...  are you prepared to continue fielding bug reports and implementing feature requests as they come in?  Ideally others pitch in help but for now assuming no help?Jan 04 12:03
prkosdoctormon-mob: how buried do you feel under all the work we might throw your way to finish the forum with all your other obligations happening?Jan 04 12:03
prkosbryce: GMTAJan 04 12:04
doctormon-mobBryce: that is the plan. I'm assuming a 5% assistance rate for python and 50% for cssJan 04 12:04
bryceI expect just keeping on top of the spammers is going to be a chore in itself, although I'm sure any forum software we'd use would have a similar choreJan 04 12:05
crogersYea, even G+ was a nightmare.Jan 04 12:05
MoiniGetting moderators for the gallery was already difficult - none stayed for longer than one or two weeks.Jan 04 12:05
Moini(I think)Jan 04 12:05
crogersYou had to have like 6 mods doing it daily.Jan 04 12:05
crogersFOrtunately, we're not that popular yet. :)Jan 04 12:06
doctormon-mobthere's a two post limit for new users, they go into purgitory until approvedJan 04 12:06
prkosBrynn was happy with the implemented antispam because she tested it on another site, so I expect spam won't be a problem if that software takes care of most of itJan 04 12:06
MoiniBrynn does moderation, I do some flagging, and Martin sometimes gives the required second voice, so we can remove spam.Jan 04 12:06
crogersMaybe by the time we are a proper target for spam, we can ask some of our community to be mods.Jan 04 12:06
prkosModding should be community management, not spam purging, mostly at leastJan 04 12:08
doctormon-mobI added a reward flag crogers, you won't see it until you post thoughJan 04 12:08
bryceryangorley, I was going to pose that as a question #4.  On the one hand by this point it feels it may have already been de facto answered "yes", but you're right it could be a distraction for the project.Jan 04 12:08
crogersOh dear... :)Jan 04 12:08
doctormon-mobI'll recuse from talking about the distraction problemJan 04 12:09
prkosdoctormon-mob: that's the one thing you should be most vocal about ;)Jan 04 12:10
bryceone of the reasons I've supported us putting attention onto forums is that I think having it more integrated with the project may help pull in the community and thus can be a big benefit over the long term.Jan 04 12:11
prkosbryce: huge +1Jan 04 12:12
zigzagmlt+1Jan 04 12:12
doctormon-mob+1Jan 04 12:12
crogersdoctormon-mob, just posted a reply to the freelancer UI question.Jan 04 12:13
crogersI see no rewaed though.Jan 04 12:13
*crogers pouts. ;)Jan 04 12:13
zigzagmltIf Inkscape is a brand - in charge of its image, then there's something to be said for community management with respect to a properly managed forum.Jan 04 12:13
doctormon-mobapproved crogers, now it's out of purgitory, refreshJan 04 12:14
crogersMore than that, it's quite bad if the project has no control over it's own forum, as is the case with the most popular Inkscape G+ feed.Jan 04 12:15
zigzagmlt+1Jan 04 12:15
Mcg+ will take care of itselfJan 04 12:16
crogersYupJan 04 12:16
prkosjabiertxof: we should remove the .not-visible .img-circle constraint, just a note for laterJan 04 12:16
Mc(it will close)Jan 04 12:16
crogersYupJan 04 12:16
crogersWe moving them to mastodon?Jan 04 12:16
doctormon-mobunknown, I've been there but I see few people move thereJan 04 12:17
bryceprkos, do you feel we've discussed things adequately?  Any items we've overlooked?  Like I'd mentioned in email, and others pointed out here, the board's charter is limited on what it can decide technically, other than maybe how is managed, so apart from hosting discussion I don't think it's a voting matter.Jan 04 12:17
crogersdoctormon-mob, haha! Bugmaker? That just sounds like I'm a rotten programmer! ;)Jan 04 12:17
crogersWhich incidentally is true. ;PJan 04 12:17
prkosDo man-hours of contributors fall under "technically"?Jan 04 12:18
crogersdoctormon-mob, love the icon though. It's adorbs. :)Jan 04 12:19
doctormon-mobemoji one iconsJan 04 12:19
prkosbryce: it's not really my call, it's a much wider issue, I just started the ball rolling in this meetingJan 04 12:20
prkosI guess we can leave it at that for now, doctormon-mob expect more forum feedback your way, but also css help :)Jan 04 12:21
doctormon-mobthanks prkos. you've been awesome help.Jan 04 12:22
rindolfcrogers: hehJan 04 12:22
bryceprkos, ok, thanks for raising it, it's been a good discussion.  The technical direction aspects can be handled as regular open source project work.Jan 04 12:22
brycealright, given we're +1hr past EOM, let's table remaining topics to next meeting.Jan 04 12:22
brycedoes anyone have any other business urgent to discuss now, before we close?Jan 04 12:23
Mcwiki, sponsors, budget ?Jan 04 12:23
doctormon-mobwe can deffer wiki migrationJan 04 12:23
doctormon-mobunless there's someone who wants to do itJan 04 12:23
ryangorleyI nominate doctormon-mob to migrate the wiki too ;)Jan 04 12:24
McxDJan 04 12:24
crogershahahaJan 04 12:24
Mcwhy migrate and where ?Jan 04 12:24
brycebriefly...  osuosl would like mediawiki migrated; sponsors - we need to ask past sponsors to renew, but I can take that action; budget I've run the numbers but haven't finalized a report yetJan 04 12:24
doctormon-mobosuosl already asked me.Jan 04 12:24
doctormon-mobthe machine py1 is a super old gentoo box, it runs planet and wiki.Jan 04 12:25
bryceoffhand, I'm wondering that setting up mediawiki in ansible would be a good task to get someone else involved in, if we could find someoneJan 04 12:25
doctormon-mobstay on the look out for sysadmins to volunteerJan 04 12:26
brycerightJan 04 12:26
doctormon-mob+1Jan 04 12:26
rindolfdoctormon-mob: please stay a little after the meeting - I wish to discuss 04 12:26
doctormon-mobwill doJan 04 12:26
ryangorleyHave we asked recena if he's willing to help with that?Jan 04 12:26
bryceI might be willing to give it a shot myself, I want to learn ansibleJan 04 12:26
bryceryangorley, this just came up a few days ago, this would mark the start of discussions.  I do need to catch up with recena, I think he's been busy over the holidays.Jan 04 12:27
bryceanyway, like doctormon-mob says, can be deferred for now, we've got a lot on our plates atm.Jan 04 12:27
bryceany other business?Jan 04 12:27
crogersOne bug question.Jan 04 12:28
bryceshootJan 04 12:28
crogersIs this a trademark violation? 04 12:28
brycecan I IANAL? ;-)Jan 04 12:29
McIt's probably fineJan 04 12:29
doctormon-mobask the communityJan 04 12:29
crogersI was careful to be sneaky about the spelling. ;)Jan 04 12:29
crogersAhm, it's a special bug though.Jan 04 12:30
Mca Beetle ?Jan 04 12:30
crogersSo the community is supposed to discover it.Jan 04 12:30
bryce"spoilers!"Jan 04 12:30
bryceok, if there's nothing else, let's endJan 04 12:30
bryce= End of Meeting =Jan 04 12:30
brycethanks all!Jan 04 12:30
*ryangorley wavesJan 04 12:31
TavmjongBye!Jan 04 12:31
zigzagmltBye!Jan 04 12:31
crogersBye to those leaving. :)Jan 04 12:31

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