Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2019-12-06

tedgGonna be a few minutes late to the board meeting today. Don't wait for me ;-) Dec 06 09:39
-NickServ-bryyce!~bryce@2620:15c:f:fd00:7859:6b2d:92f8:57d0 has just authenticated as you (bryce)Dec 06 09:49
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to bryyceDec 06 09:49
inkchatbot<bryce> board meeting in 10Dec 06 09:52
inkchatbot<doctormo> HelloDec 06 10:02
Mco/Dec 06 10:03
inkchatbot<bryce> = Inkscape Board Meeting =Dec 06 10:03
inkchatbot<bryce> who else is here?Dec 06 10:03
inkchatbot<doctormo> @c.rogers pingDec 06 10:03
inkchatbot<bryce> with the holidays I'm sure everyone's schedule is tight this monthDec 06 10:03
Mctedg will be late, Tav can't attendDec 06 10:03
inkchatbot<bryce> so let's try to keep this meeting to an hour or lessDec 06 10:03
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> :wave: Dec 06 10:03
*ryangorley is lurkingDec 06 10:03
inkchatbot<bryce> there's a lot to cover so we'll have to go pretty quicklyDec 06 10:03
inkchatbot<bryce> == Software Release Status ==Dec 06 10:04
inkchatbot<bryce> congrats everyone on getting 1.0beta2 out the door, thanks Mc for leading the effortDec 06 10:04
inkchatbot<bryce> have any super serious issues cropped up?Dec 06 10:04
inkchatbot<doctormo> Brilliant work everyone.Dec 06 10:04
inkchatbot<bryce> and if not, has a timeframe for 1.0 been identified?Dec 06 10:04
Mcnot yet, I'm waiting for some time to see if new regressions are foundDec 06 10:04
ryangorley@Mc are you getting useful bug reports from the beta releases or are you still having to do a lot of the testing yourself?Dec 06 10:05
McI would like more reports, but …Dec 06 10:06
McWe still get a fewDec 06 10:06
inkchatbot<ede123> Be careful what you wish for ;-)Dec 06 10:07
ryangorleyHaha. Okay. Noted.Dec 06 10:07
McI want knowledge about what does not work, that won't prevent releasing :DDec 06 10:07
inkchatbot<bryce> ok, so sounds like for 1.0 timeframe is 'pending'?  I've had a few emails (I think I forwarded one to -devel) where people are asking about timeframe, and I wasn't sure if one had been established.Dec 06 10:07
Mcideally, new year releaseDec 06 10:08
inkchatbot<bryce> okDec 06 10:08
inkchatbot<bryce> anything else on release matters for board discussion?Dec 06 10:08
Mcah also I would like more bug triagers :(Dec 06 10:08
Mcinbox starts to fill with bugs without tagsDec 06 10:08
inkchatbot<bryce> yeahDec 06 10:09
inkchatbot<ede123> Yep, inbox is floodedDec 06 10:09
inkchatbot<doctormo> Sounds like we need to recruit.Dec 06 10:09
inkchatbot<ede123> (we cant even keep up with inkscape/inkscape in all cases)Dec 06 10:09
inkchatbot<doctormo> Who is best able to introduce potential new bug triage helpers to the system?Dec 06 10:09
inkchatbot<bryce> would someone like take the action to arrange triager recruitment?Dec 06 10:10
inkchatbot<ede123> One problem is that we don't have "power-triagers" right now that could show the way I think.Dec 06 10:10
inkchatbot<ede123> Some policies are not even established yet (so it's unclear what to tell newcomers)Dec 06 10:11
inkchatbot<doctormo> @ Tim  / @ ryangorley  this sounds like we'd need vector's help for the outreach end.Dec 06 10:11
inkchatbot<doctormo> Who's done the most tagging/moving of issues so far that we can ask if they'd help others?Dec 06 10:12
ryangorley@doctormo sure. We probably need someone more knowledgeable willing to "onboard" people who are interested, but we can certainly help get the word out.Dec 06 10:12
inkchatbot<Moini> Nathan Lee, I think. Victor has just offered his help.Dec 06 10:12
Mc@doctormo it's mostly about answering and closing "usage questions" labeling the rest, tell feature requests that they won't be dealt with in the foreseeable future, and moving bugs about inkscape to inkscape/inkscape and about extensions to inkscape/extensionsDec 06 10:12
Mc(+ marking duplicates)Dec 06 10:13
inkchatbot<doctormo> @ Moini  can you contact Nathan Lee and ask if they'd like to do this task for us? (onboarding) we can plug them into the vectors side.Dec 06 10:13
inkchatbot<Moini> And devs pick the bugs that they are interested in / feel responsible for :)Dec 06 10:13
Mcbut the answering part is important because people sometimes forget to mention which version they have the bug, which platform, etc.Dec 06 10:14
Mcand that takes Time™Dec 06 10:14
inkchatbot<Moini> @ nathanal  The board has a question for you, above this post ^Dec 06 10:14
inkchatbot<ede123> we should also decide whether we want to keep inbox clean (i.e. aim at triaging / labelling them all) or notDec 06 10:15
inkchatbot<doctormo> @ Moini  thanks, I didn't see his name in the rocket chat :-DDec 06 10:15
inkchatbot<bryce> ok sounds like the seeds a good plan that can be pursued post-meeting.  I don't think the board needs to be directly involved in this, but we can check in on things next meeting.Dec 06 10:15
*tedg wavesDec 06 10:15
inkchatbot<bryce> thanks again everyone for the great work on the release, keep it upDec 06 10:15
inkchatbot<bryce> == Infrastructure ==Dec 06 10:15
inkchatbot<bryce> now that the mailing lists seem to be working on relatively solid footing,Dec 06 10:16
Mcin board-related things, where are things wrt stickers ? I start to plan going at fosdem so I may need someDec 06 10:16
inkchatbot<bryce> I will be wrapping up my involvement in administration for itDec 06 10:16
inkchatbot<bryce> and will leave it in Mc's hands here on out.Dec 06 10:16
McI have 0 knowledge about ansible thoughDec 06 10:16
inkchatbot<bryce> Please go to him for issues with it going forward.Dec 06 10:16
Mc(and completely ignored it when setting up things)Dec 06 10:16
inkchatbot<doctormo> That's ok, no one else knows it either.Dec 06 10:17
Mc:laugh:Dec 06 10:17
ryangorleyIs @recena unavailable to help with these items anymore? Should we try to find someone else like him to help?Dec 06 10:17
inkchatbot<bryce> yeah that's a bit of a problem... a lot of effort went into setting that up, but now with all the manual fixups it's out of syncDec 06 10:17
inkchatbot<bryce> plenty of other things haven't been ansibled though, maybe it's just a good idea that wasn't fated to work for us in practiceDec 06 10:18
inkchatbot<doctormo> At least we tried.Dec 06 10:18
inkchatbot<bryce> my plan going forward is to focus instead on backup, so we can at least recover if there's problemsDec 06 10:18
inkchatbot<bryce> a backup.inkscape.org node is set up with cloudscale.chDec 06 10:18
inkchatbot<bryce> with an rsnapshot service on it that can backup other systemsDec 06 10:19
inkchatbot<bryce> I put ample space on it, but haven't initiated backup actions yetDec 06 10:19
inkchatbot<bryce> it'll backup each system's /var, /etc, /home, and other data as neededDec 06 10:19
inkchatbot<bryce> but won't backup static stuff like /usr or tmp stuff in /tmp and suchDec 06 10:19
inkchatbot<bryce> I'll be backing up rocketchat, wiki, mailman3, and alphaDec 06 10:19
inkchatbot<doctormo> Bryce can we meet to get the details of how our osuosl webserver can backup to it?Dec 06 10:19
inkchatbot<bryce> let me know if there are other things that also need backed upDec 06 10:19
inkchatbot<bryce> yepDec 06 10:19
inkchatbot<bryce> Ted will have sudo access to the machine, once I get his keysDec 06 10:20
inkchatbot<doctormo> Is Ted the go to for backup or will that be yourself?Dec 06 10:20
inkchatbot<bryce> it's going to be pretty standard rsnapshot but I'll document a process for how to add stuffDec 06 10:20
ede123ideally we'd find ways to make all of these things accessible enough that more than one person at a time can attempt to work on issuesDec 06 10:20
ede123infrastructure-wise our bus factor is pretty much 1Dec 06 10:21
inkchatbot<doctormo> All things should be like that, it's why I wrote docs when you login to inkscape.org via ssh.Dec 06 10:21
ede123ah, so there are docs not publicly visible?Dec 06 10:22
ede123good to know...Dec 06 10:22
inkchatbot<doctormo> Maybe we need a bus-factor list, something that can document the who's and whats of each of these admins.Dec 06 10:22
inkchatbot<recena> HelloDec 06 10:22
inkchatbot<doctormo> Hello!Dec 06 10:23
McyepDec 06 10:23
ede123@doctormo sound reasonable if we aim for bus factor of 2 ^^Dec 06 10:23
inkchatbot<bryce> when you say bus factor I keep getting this flash that you all want to see me hit by a busDec 06 10:24
inkchatbot<doctormo> Heh 2^XDec 06 10:24
inkchatbot<recena> What is the problem?Dec 06 10:24
inkchatbot<recena> Where could I help?Dec 06 10:24
inkchatbot<bryce> I keep hearing these complaints but I don't know of many production systems that only one person can accessDec 06 10:24
inkchatbot<bryce> the webserver maybe?Dec 06 10:24
tedgbryce: no more walking next to streets for youDec 06 10:24
inkchatbot<bryce> the voting system seems low bus factor, I don't think anyone but martin admins itDec 06 10:25
ede123it's fortunately not vital for the project, thoughDec 06 10:25
ede123(in contrast to other services)Dec 06 10:25
inkchatbot<Moini> @ recena  We had been talking about adding the recent mailing list server config changes to ansible, but nobody knew how.Dec 06 10:26
inkchatbot<bryce> @ ede123  what specifically are you concerned about?Dec 06 10:26
inkchatbot<bryce> the mailing list stuff has ian and mc, so that's a bus factor of 2Dec 06 10:27
ede123Most important services IMHO: website, mailing lists and chat, wikiDec 06 10:27
inkchatbot<Moini> Can we tag Ian in the chat?Dec 06 10:27
inkchatbot<bryce> rocketchat has me, recena, jabierDec 06 10:27
inkchatbot<bryce> wiki has doctormoDec 06 10:27
inkchatbot<bryce> I'm not too worried about wiki tbh, as long as it's backed upDec 06 10:28
ede123Who's ian (sorry...)Dec 06 10:28
inkchatbot<doctormo> website has me and jabierDec 06 10:28
ede123Is he available/reachable easily?Dec 06 10:28
inkchatbot<recena> But was there any issue?Dec 06 10:28
inkchatbot<bryce> to me it doesn't seem like we have a bus factor problem, but this keeps coming up.  is there some other issue you guys are concerned about here?Dec 06 10:28
inkchatbot<Moini> Ian Dehnhart (I think), haven't seen him for a long time.Dec 06 10:28
inkchatbot<Moini> @ recena  I'm not sure if people still want it, it appeared as if it was dropped... ?Dec 06 10:29
inkchatbot<bryce> @ ede123  ian is the contractor that we paid to do the ansible work for mailman3 and did a lot of the work setting it upDec 06 10:29
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> Organization Charts and Roles are kept internally and updated by someone occasionally, then?Dec 06 10:29
inkchatbot<Moini> Meaning, Ian's work is done.Dec 06 10:29
inkchatbot<doctormo> The voting system can be run by anyone, I'm just the only one who knows how to use it.Dec 06 10:30
inkchatbot<Moini> I'd be able to figure that out.Dec 06 10:30
inkchatbot<Moini> And I'd be able to give someone else permissions.Dec 06 10:30
inkchatbot<recena> I feel myself responsible of chat service. If you have other service where I can work, please, tell meDec 06 10:31
inkchatbot<Moini> Thank you, Manuel :)Dec 06 10:31
Mcbug triaging !Dec 06 10:31
inkchatbot<Moini> lolDec 06 10:31
inkchatbot<recena> What I see on this project and community is that we would need someone working on infrastructure as professional serviceDec 06 10:31
inkchatbot<doctormo> I can give you a website ssh if you pass over your public key @ recena   :-)Dec 06 10:31
inkchatbot<recena> There is a lot of services and requirementsDec 06 10:32
inkchatbot<bryce> for documentation on services, I've been keeping at https://gitlab.com/inkscape/infra/services/blob/master/cloudscale_nodes.yml; this is not a public link so some of you won't see it, but I've been keeping tech details updated there.  Dec 06 10:32
inkchatbot<recena> And it requires deep knowledge about infrastructureDec 06 10:32
inkchatbot<doctormo> An infrastructure admin would benefit the project greatly imo.Dec 06 10:33
inkchatbot<recena> I want to continue working on this project. In fact, my expertise comes from Release Management but this part seems coveredDec 06 10:34
Mcmaybe some nagios or prometheus monitoring setupDec 06 10:34
inkchatbot<recena> We are not able to maintain more on premise services (IMHO)Dec 06 10:34
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> I have stable infrastructure, don't worry about falling down. But backups and general administration roles could be strengthened. We could think about a recovery plan, too.Dec 06 10:36
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> (I :heart: Inkscape.) =)Dec 06 10:37
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> @ recena  and @ Mc  would be key players for that since its infrastructure admin? We can take a look and report back later on ideas for best practices or known issues is that helps.Dec 06 10:40
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> Back to the agenda?Dec 06 10:42
inkchatbot<recena> SureDec 06 10:42
inkchatbot<recena> If we know or describes the concerns, I can go through themDec 06 10:42
inkchatbot<bryce> am I hearing correctly that the issue is you don't want me involved in infrastructure administration?Dec 06 10:43
ede123I think you already have the job - this seems more about getting more hands involved?Dec 06 10:45
ede123As you're often busy lately it get's more obvious administration is non-existing without you ;-)Dec 06 10:45
tedgbryce, I think that the concern is that no one wants to put the whole task on you. They want to help.Dec 06 10:46
inkchatbot<bryce> I hope you are seeing that I have been actively delegating infrastructure administration duties as much as possible.Dec 06 10:48
Mcyep :)Dec 06 10:48
inkchatbot<bryce> it is time consuming to maintain infrastructure, and I know a lot of it is "behind the scenes" so the time involvement may not be visibleDec 06 10:49
ede123I think everybody is aware. The problem with infrastructure is especially that it's time-sensitive at times in contrast to most other forms of contributions.Dec 06 10:50
inkchatbot<doctormo> So are we moving to recruiting @ recena  to focus on infrastructure management and see where we can go from there?Dec 06 10:50
inkchatbot<Moini> Maybe that's for the board mailing list?Dec 06 10:51
inkchatbot<recena> I have to do something at homeDec 06 10:51
inkchatbot<Moini> (because it's 10 minutes before the hour)Dec 06 10:52
inkchatbot<recena> But I will get back in order to see how I can helpDec 06 10:52
Mcah yeah we need to advance in the agenda ^^Dec 06 10:52
inkchatbot<RdH> Sorry, on mobile. I know Ansible, but I don‘t have the time to take that on right now.Dec 06 10:53
inkchatbot<bryce> hmDec 06 10:54
inkchatbot<bryce> > == Hackfest planning ==Dec 06 10:54
inkchatbot<bryce> > Tav's not here, but I see he set up a wiki page:Dec 06 10:54
inkchatbot<bryce> https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php?title=Hackfest2020_RennesDec 06 10:54
inkchatbot<bryce> Look it over, send him feedback or questionsDec 06 10:54
inkchatbot<bryce> The Hackfests section on the index page at wiki.inkscape.org needs updated btwDec 06 10:54
inkchatbot<bryce> == Board Roles ==Dec 06 10:55
inkchatbot<bryce> Last meeting I mentioned about getting some officer positions establishedDec 06 10:55
inkchatbot<bryce> namely vicechair, secretary, and treasurerDec 06 10:55
inkchatbot<bryce> I outlined the duties in the agenda, although there are probably more duties like fundraising and infrastructure management that could be addedDec 06 10:56
inkchatbot<ScislaC> Sorry, I was here at the beginning, had to duck out, caught up again.Dec 06 10:56
tedgYes, I think that it's great that you wrote those up, and a good idea.Dec 06 10:56
inkchatbot<doctormo> These are interesting roles. I'm interested in stepping up, but interested to know what role other people think I should do.Dec 06 10:57
inkchatbot<bryce> who on the board would be open to taking on increased duties such as these?  we would need at least three people - no doubling up on roles.Dec 06 10:57
tedgI'd be happy to take on one of those roles. I'm not picky about which.Dec 06 10:57
McI can take some, but I don't think I'm organized enough to be treasurer ^^Dec 06 10:58
inkchatbot<bryce> how do other board members feel about such a restructuring?  esp. if the bylaws need rewritten it would be important for it to be unanimousDec 06 11:00
McTav told me today he did not particularly want to fill in the rolesDec 06 11:00
Mc(s/fill in/volunteer for one of/)Dec 06 11:00
inkchatbot<doctormo> Arach, it would be good if we could convene with Tav to get everyone on the same page for this.Dec 06 11:00
inkchatbot<ScislaC> I'm not against restructuring, especially if we have people wanting to divide the load up.Dec 06 11:00
McI don't think he's opposed to themDec 06 11:00
inkchatbot<bryce> I haven't spoken with sfc at all, I don't know what requirements they may have.  I know that they require a single point of contact and want to constrain access to financial transactions for legal reasonsDec 06 11:00
Mche just do not want more duties for himselfDec 06 11:01
inkchatbot<doctormo> I think the main aim is just to make sure these things have two people.Dec 06 11:02
inkchatbot<bryce> ok, well this is obviously the sort of thing that will require research and further deliberation, we don't need to decide anything this meetingDec 06 11:02
inkchatbot<doctormo> It looks like everyone is going to be super shy at picking a role for themselves :-/Dec 06 11:02
tedgI'm +1 on the restructuring. I think we've grown the number of tasks here overtime, so it makes sense to adjust the structure to match the current amount of work.Dec 06 11:03
tedgI'm generally happy with what you proposed, and I think it's a good place for a 1 .0.Dec 06 11:03
tedgWe shouldn't expect that it is final, we should expect that we'll change it over time.Dec 06 11:03
inkchatbot<bryce> of course if it's hard to fill the roles, then restructuring will be a moot pointDec 06 11:04
inkchatbot<bryce> I did mention the idea of increasing the size of the board, I don't know if that would helpDec 06 11:04
Mcwhat about "Mc-Vicechair ; doctormo-treasurer ; tedg-secretary" ? Dec 06 11:04
inkchatbot<bryce> for whatever it's worth, I have scripted quite a bit just so I can keep on top of things myselfDec 06 11:05
inkchatbot<doctormo> Mc: +1Dec 06 11:05
inkchatbot<bryce> fundraising is the main area I feel I have no capacity to do any moreDec 06 11:05
Mc(but first, a ticket to ask SFC what they think about it, esp. the two points of contact)Dec 06 11:06
tedgbryce: You've replaced the board with a small shell script ;-)Dec 06 11:07
Mcah also, GSoC should be announced very soonDec 06 11:07
Mc(GSoC2020)Dec 06 11:07
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> Mc: +1Dec 06 11:07
inkchatbot<doctormo> tedg: :-DDec 06 11:07
inkchatbot<bryce> @ tedg  python!Dec 06 11:08
tedgI like the idea of areas of responsiblity that are clear as well.Dec 06 11:08
inkchatbot<bryce> ok, we're at the hour, if someone can file those tickets and assign to me I'll follow up thereDec 06 11:08
inkchatbot<bryce> == Other Business ==Dec 06 11:08
Mcwe need to ask our secretary :DDec 06 11:08
inkchatbot<doctormo> Please make sure you vote for the about screen if you haven't already.Dec 06 11:08
McI'll need @c.rogersDec 06 11:09
Mcfor stickersDec 06 11:09
Mc19:16 < Mc> in board-related things, where are things wrt stickers ? I start to plan going at fosdem so I may need someDec 06 11:09
inkchatbot<Moini> Mc, do you also need the banner? (I might have asked this before...)Dec 06 11:10
McI don't think I'll do a boothDec 06 11:11
Mcso probably notDec 06 11:11
inkchatbot<Moini> Okay, that's good. Been thinking about sending to your relatives, if you'd have needed it... As Christmas approaches, that could have been an option.Dec 06 11:12
inkchatbot<bryce> ok, thanksDec 06 11:12
inkchatbot<bryce> as we're past time, shall we wrap up the meeting?  feel free to continue discussions after.Dec 06 11:12
inkchatbot<bryce> = End of Meeting =Dec 06 11:12
Mcthanks bryce !Dec 06 11:12
tedgSounds good, thanks everyone!Dec 06 11:13
inkchatbot<ScislaC> Ok, thanks allDec 06 11:13
*ryangorley wavesDec 06 11:13
inkchatbot<doctormo> Thanks allDec 06 11:16

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.1.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!