Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2020-02-07

*Now talking on #inkscape-develFeb 07 09:10
*Topic for #inkscape-devel is: Inkscape development discussion channel || Channel mirrored with http://chat.inkscape.org || Next board meeting: `date -d 'TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 10:00 Fri Feb 7'`Feb 07 09:10
*Topic for #inkscape-devel set by Mc (Thu Feb 6 05:38:56 2020)Feb 07 09:10
-ChanServ-[#inkscape-devel] Welcome to the developer discussion channel for Inkscape. For usage questions and general discussion please join #inkscape.Feb 07 09:10
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to bryceFeb 07 09:10
*Channel #inkscape-devel modes: +ntFeb 07 09:10
*Channel #inkscape-devel created on Sat Sep 28 15:37:07 2013Feb 07 09:10
inkchatbot<Tav> ************** Board Meeting in 10 Minutes ***************Feb 07 09:50
inkchatbot<Tav> https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Board_MeetingsFeb 07 09:50
*bryce wavesFeb 07 10:00
bryce== Inkscape Board Meeting ==Feb 07 10:00
*tedg waves tooFeb 07 10:01
inkchatbot<doctormo> MorningFeb 07 10:01
tinystoatJust lurking. :)Feb 07 10:02
bryce=== Software Release Status ===Feb 07 10:02
brycehow's 1.0 coming along?Feb 07 10:03
inkchatbot<doctormo> Ace, we've been busy getting critical bugs from the Vector's team. And fixing those.Feb 07 10:03
inkchatbot<para-MarkT> MarkT lurking in Continuum!Feb 07 10:04
inkchatbot<doctormo> This is to improve the confidence we have in the 1.0 release.Feb 07 10:04
inkchatbot<para-MarkT> ...Londonium Feb 07 10:04
inkchatbot<doctormo> Second bug list is here: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/vectors/general/issues/136 (first one is linked from there)Feb 07 10:04
inkchatbot<doctormo> Marc said he'd be lateFeb 07 10:05
inkchatbot<doctormo> So we may want to re-ask this when he gets here.Feb 07 10:05
brycealrightFeb 07 10:05
bryce=== Hackfest Planning ===Feb 07 10:05
bryceanything to report on Renne plans/preparations?Feb 07 10:06
MchiFeb 07 10:08
brycemaybe that's something to get back to later as wellFeb 07 10:08
brycehi McFeb 07 10:08
bryceMc, want to update us on 1.0?Feb 07 10:08
McI think we got most "blockers"Feb 07 10:08
Mcmost of the remaining work is, unfortunately, packagingFeb 07 10:09
Mc(for rc)Feb 07 10:09
Mcthere are a few mac-specific blockersFeb 07 10:09
Mcfor windows, we want to improve the installer generationFeb 07 10:09
Mcand for linux we have this problem with program name and iconFeb 07 10:10
inkchatbot<Tav> HiFeb 07 10:10
Mconce these are tackled, I'm quite confident we can call stuff "release candidate"Feb 07 10:10
bryceok sounds good, glad to see it progressingFeb 07 10:11
bryce=== Infrastructure ===Feb 07 10:11
inkchatbot<doctormo> Mc: Do we have those issues on the canban? I'm finding it hard to track these packaging issues.Feb 07 10:11
Mcthere are a few people to thank for recent fixes and also doctormo to help push people on it :)Feb 07 10:12
Mc@doctormo not sureFeb 07 10:13
bryceI've got OSUOSL registration for backup.inkscape.org (there's no separate web page for it, just backend service).  main remaining task is dumping of service databases, may be more a task for people who set up those services though.Feb 07 10:14
bryceI'm also probably going to shut down the sourceforge mailing lists soonish.  mainly just need to announce it's happening, then switch them off.Feb 07 10:14
tedgI accidentally sent the announcement to one of them :-)Feb 07 10:15
bryceyeah mainly at this point they're just spam accumulators, I don't think any are in actual use any moreFeb 07 10:15
bryceanyone have other infrastructure updates?Feb 07 10:16
inkchatbot<doctormo> Forum: new spam system (word blocking) has driven moderator actions down by 96%, there a new developer who has been working on website issues that I'm excited about.Feb 07 10:16
McSomeone subscribed "requests" emails of the new system to spam mlFeb 07 10:17
Mcbut I don't think there is much we can do about itFeb 07 10:17
Mcapart from that, I think we got rid of spam completely for now, they used the web interface afaikFeb 07 10:18
bryceMc, thanks yes the mail server seems stable.Feb 07 10:18
Mc@doctormo ah btw I was contemplating installing an instance of kiwiTCMS or of systemtestportal Feb 07 10:19
bryceanything else on infrastructure?Feb 07 10:19
Mc(on alpha to start with, then maybe in a name like "test.inkscape.org")Feb 07 10:19
inkchatbot<doctormo> Looks very useful.Feb 07 10:20
McKrita will try KiwiTCMS at some point (kde infra people seem very busy)Feb 07 10:20
McIf we can do it right, it will be ideal to test regressions and scenariosFeb 07 10:21
bryceMc, let's keep web services off alpha -- I can spin up a devel node for you when you're readyFeb 07 10:21
Mcsounds good, you can start it and I'll try the install next weekFeb 07 10:21
bryceokFeb 07 10:22
bryce=== Board Roles ===Feb 07 10:23
bryceI'm going to be out of town for next month's meeting -- tedg do you mind running the show for March?Feb 07 10:23
*tedg checks his calendarFeb 07 10:23
*ChanServ has changed the topic to: Inkscape development discussion channel || Channel mirrored with http://chat.inkscape.org || Next board meeting: `date -d 'TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 10:00 Fri Mar 6'`Feb 07 10:24
tedgI'll be at SCALE, so I'm not sure of my schedule.Feb 07 10:24
tedgI'm probably not a good leader for that meeting.Feb 07 10:24
bryceokFeb 07 10:24
inkchatbot<doctormo> @c.rogers pingFeb 07 10:25
brycewould someone else like to lead it, or should we reschedule or cancel?Feb 07 10:25
inkchatbot<doctormo> I could lead it, keep the agenda smaller since key people will be MIAFeb 07 10:25
bryceok, thanks doctormo.Feb 07 10:27
inkchatbot<Tav> We should get a vote on the Rennes hackfest.Feb 07 10:27
inkchatbot<Tav> https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php?title=Hackfest2020_RennesFeb 07 10:27
inkchatbot<Tav> Elisa updated the page awhile back.Feb 07 10:28
McI can try to, but if 2 people can't attend we might reschedule itFeb 07 10:28
Mc(@ next month meeting)Feb 07 10:29
inkchatbot<doctormo> If it's between me and you Mc, we could just keep it to specific topics. I think it's good to still host it since it gives non-board people the chance to talk about board issues.Feb 07 10:30
inkchatbot<doctormo> (especially when we ask them to come to the meetings and raise specific issues)Feb 07 10:30
bryceTav agreed re: vote, although looks like dates are still tbd?  is there a feel for how many people will be there?Feb 07 10:30
inkchatbot<Tav> Probably the same number as in the past. We do need to nail down the dates. The earlier we can get the dates and funding nailed, the better chance we have of getting people there.Feb 07 10:31
bryceTav, ok well draft up a prelim text for the vote and email it to me, and I'll review and send out for voting.Feb 07 10:32
bryceTav, you can probably reuse last year's lgm event vote, and just put in the new detailsFeb 07 10:32
inkchatbot<Tav> Will do...Feb 07 10:33
brycethanksFeb 07 10:33
McI think krita plans to have a hackfest around lgm too Feb 07 10:33
Mcwe might want to either colocate or avoid, depending on the space ^^Feb 07 10:34
inkchatbot<doctormo> Good idea. Having cross hacking can be useful, depends on the topics.Feb 07 10:35
bryceok, since next month's meeting is tentative, let's postpone discussion on board role changes until after that.  I think the role definitions need nailed down, then next action after that would be call for nominations and so on.Feb 07 10:35
bryce=== Other Business ===Feb 07 10:35
bryceany other items we need to discuss?  Or more on any of the above?Feb 07 10:35
McGPLv3Feb 07 10:35
Mc(GPLv3+)Feb 07 10:35
brycetedg, thanks for acting secretary, plz keep up with that, it's nice not having that task :-)Feb 07 10:36
tedgK, will do!Feb 07 10:36
bryceMc, go aheadFeb 07 10:36
McDoes anyone has any problems with distributing Inkscape formally under GPLv3+ ? Do we licence new *code* in GPLv3+ or continue GPLv2+ ?Feb 07 10:36
inkchatbot<doctormo> No problems here.Feb 07 10:37
bryceMc, what is prompting this?Feb 07 10:37
Mcwe may need to do it for dependency reasonsFeb 07 10:37
inkchatbot<Tav> I would like to integrate gnu readline which is GPL3.Feb 07 10:37
McI think one of our existing deps are GPL3 + Tav wants to use a new oneFeb 07 10:37
McFSF recommends it, SFC recommends itFeb 07 10:38
inkchatbot<Tav> It makes using the shell interactively much nicer.Feb 07 10:38
Mcso I tend to think more in terms of "why wouldnt we ?" than "Why do it"Feb 07 10:38
inkchatbot<Tav> Can anybody remember why we decided on staying GPL2+?Feb 07 10:38
bryceI suppose it's probably in one of the earlier board transcriptsFeb 07 10:39
McI found the board emails about it and the decision was not a "decision to stay" but an evolution of gplv2->gplv2+ Feb 07 10:39
tedgWe had a couple of includes that were GPLv2 only.Feb 07 10:39
bryceI recall we voted on it a couple timesFeb 07 10:39
tedgLike things we copied from GIMPFeb 07 10:39
inkchatbot<Tav> Gimp dependency is gone...Feb 07 10:39
tedgSo by making everything else GPLv2+ meant that we were safe in including those.Feb 07 10:39
Mcand gplv2+ was chosen because no dep was using gplv3+ yet and most project seemed to stick with v2+Feb 07 10:40
tedgIf we're good with all the files, I think that v3+ is better.Feb 07 10:40
McWe're now all good in v2+ in our own code Feb 07 10:40
inkchatbot<doctormo> next item (when finished with gpl); I'd like us to hire a project manager. With mostly the same roles and responsibilities as discussed previously. The process with the SFC is that we create a job requirements and then open it up for people to apply to the job.Feb 07 10:41
inkchatbot<Tav> doctormo, can you draft the job requirements?Feb 07 10:42
inkchatbot<doctormo> Sure. I'll mostly be copying from ted.Feb 07 10:43
bryceMc, sounds like distributing Inkscape as GPLv3+ would be feasible, in fact we had struggled a bit to keep on 2+.  I don't think we even need to vote on this as a board.  It could be nice to keep new code to GPLv2+ at least for a while (maybe a year?), in case something unexpected crops up requiring us to still stay on 2+.Feb 07 10:43
Mcis the job of "project manager" the one most needed ? (vs "developer" for instance); would it necessarily need to be fulltime ?Feb 07 10:44
tedgI think that we need someone to build up the fund raising and making that more efficient.Feb 07 10:44
bryceI agree with tedg tbhFeb 07 10:44
tedgBasically professionalize our outreach to companies.Feb 07 10:44
inkchatbot<doctormo> Yes, so the project manager is a role that is mostly about bringing in money, and then from there doing organisational tasks and structural tasks.Feb 07 10:45
Mcbryce: we can license our code on gpl2+ (so that people can take it in their 2+ projects) and distribute inkscape linked-withgpl3 program under gpl3+ ?Feb 07 10:45
tedgUntil we have stablized funding there we can't start talking about second or third roles.Feb 07 10:45
bryceand yeah from what I was looking at, fundraising is easily a full time roleFeb 07 10:46
inkchatbot<doctormo> Do people want the draft to be kept private or in public (mailing list/gitlab)?Feb 07 10:46
tedgSo I think that the first role we need to focus on is that, then we can (hopefully) talk about what's next. But if we don't get that together, we'll never get to the next steps.Feb 07 10:46
Mcgitlab sounds fineFeb 07 10:46
ede123note that libreadline seems to be GPL version 3 (and not later), so we could not include it even if aiming for GPL3+Feb 07 10:46
inkchatbot<doctormo> ede123: is that by omission or do they say "(only)"Feb 07 10:47
brycealthough, to be honest, part of the problem with fundraising is it needs to be something the whole project takes seriously, it's not really something one person can handle alone.  But even just the coordination is a big job.Feb 07 10:47
ede123(some source files state "and later", but the readme says GPL3 only)Feb 07 10:47
ede123http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/readline.git/tree/README?h=develFeb 07 10:47
tedgYes, at some level it is "community management" in that we need to coordinate, it can't exist in a vacuum.Feb 07 10:47
inkchatbot<doctormo> I'll ask my friends at the FSF, I know they much prefer GPLv3+ so I don't know how it ended up as only.Feb 07 10:48
tedgBut, I think at least when we discussed it in Pasadena folks are interested in that growing, and willing to help.Feb 07 10:48
bryceMc, re: gpl2+ yes we can license as that and distribute inkscape as 3+.  In fact we effectively had to do that (legally at least) due to the gimp 3+ bits.Feb 07 10:48
inkchatbot<doctormo> I figure that the onboarding process is going to require just as much work. But this is bootstrapping.Feb 07 10:48
tedgHeh, of course FSF prefers 3+, it effectively gives them control 😉Feb 07 10:49
inkchatbot<doctormo> Such conspiratorial thinking!Feb 07 10:49
inkchatbot<doctormo> tedg: Is it ok if I include you in the drafting process?Feb 07 10:50
tedgSureFeb 07 10:50
inkchatbot<doctormo> Thanks.Feb 07 10:51
Mcon another topic, we've applied to gsocFeb 07 10:51
bryceMc, I noticed the call for registration, glad to hear that's been done.Feb 07 10:54
inkchatbot<ryangorley> Sorry to interrupt, but regarding the fundraising, I have a couple quick suggestions/thoughts: 1) I don't think what makes a good Project Manager will also make a good fundraiser so those may need to be two roles; 2) I wonder if it could be a role split between another SFC project to help cover the costs.Feb 07 10:54
McI think we've seen two interested people hereFeb 07 10:54
tedgI think we have a problem with the terminology as well. We're using "project manager" as the title, but perhaps not in the traditional sense.Feb 07 10:55
inkchatbot<doctormo> @ ryangorley  In the ideal, I agree. But we're going to need someone to pull multiple roles. This is why fund raising is going to have to be first and the structural stuff has to be part of bootstrapping (and finding out)Feb 07 10:56
tedgI don't think we want someone certified in SCRUM.Feb 07 10:56
tedg(as an example)Feb 07 10:56
inkchatbot<doctormo> :-DFeb 07 10:56
tedgSo that's why the drafting is critical in making sure we define a role and try to give it a title that works, but knowing that it won't be perfect.Feb 07 10:56
bryceryangorley, agreed on #1, #2 unsure about, might be good but might be more complicatedFeb 07 10:56
inkchatbot<ryangorley> I think having new "hires" as a goal we're fundraising for, would be more effective than vaguely asking for money. Maybe that first role would be a "project manager" with the pitch being that it will help expedite the development of the application to meet business needs. Dunno. Don't mean to get to much into the weeds. Just wanted to chime in.Feb 07 10:58
inkchatbot<doctormo> I'll bring you into the drafting process ryan :-DFeb 07 10:59
inkchatbot<ryangorley> Sounds good. :)Feb 07 10:59
tedgYeah, we'd talked about things like pitching the idea that we could do better release management on stable releases with full time help. Where that would be something people making a living using Inkscape would be interested in. Hobbists aren't as concerned about that.Feb 07 11:00
inkchatbot<ryangorley> TotallyFeb 07 11:01
bryceok, we're at the hour, thanks all!Feb 07 11:01
inkchatbot<c.rogers> Just in time. :PFeb 07 11:01
Mcand @c.rogers nope, too late :)Feb 07 11:01
bryceFeel free to keep going post-meeting, but I gotta runFeb 07 11:01
bryce== End of Meeting ==Feb 07 11:01
*tedg wavesFeb 07 11:01
Mcgood night all !Feb 07 11:01
inkchatbot<c.rogers> Yea, that's what I mean. Augh. :PFeb 07 11:02
inkchatbot<ryangorley> Thanks board peeps :)Feb 07 11:03
*Now talking on #inkscape-develFeb 07 11:05
*Topic for #inkscape-devel is: Inkscape development discussion channel || Channel mirrored with http://chat.inkscape.org || Next board meeting: `date -d 'TZ="America/Los_Angeles" 10:00 Fri Mar 6'`Feb 07 11:05
*Topic for #inkscape-devel set by Mc (Fri Feb 7 10:24:20 2020)Feb 07 11:05
-ChanServ-[#inkscape-devel] Welcome to the developer discussion channel for Inkscape. For usage questions and general discussion please join #inkscape.Feb 07 11:05
*ChanServ gives channel operator status to bryceFeb 07 11:05
*Channel #inkscape-devel modes: +ntFeb 07 11:05
*Channel #inkscape-devel created on Sat Sep 28 15:37:07 2013Feb 07 11:05
inkchatbot<doctormo> Thanks everyone!Feb 07 11:06
hellozeebtw, https://community.kde.org/Krita/Sprint2020Feb 07 11:19

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