| Tav | ********* Inkscape Board Meeting ********** | 19:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Tav | https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php/Board_Meetings | 19:00 |
| ScislaC | Hi | 19:01 |
| Tav | Hi ScislaC! | 19:01 |
| doctormo | Hello everyone! | 19:02 |
| Tav | @ tedg ? | 19:02 |
| RdH | :wave: | 19:03 |
| doctormo | Do we know who is leading this meeting today? | 19:04 |
| Mc | tedg and bryce are not here ? | 19:05 |
| Tav | @ doctormo No, you noted some people were going to be missing. | 19:05 |
| doctormo | Yes we know bryce is missing, he said so last month | 19:05 |
| doctormo | Suggested we not host a meeting at all. So I figure this meeting can be light and based on the people who show. | 19:06 |
| ScislaC | I'm assuming Ted might be at SCALE? | 19:06 |
| doctormo | Possibly | 19:07 |
| ryangorley | Yes. Ted said he wouldn't make it for that reason | 19:07 |
| doctormo | OK, then I guess we can start down the meeting agenda. Hackfests I think is the first item. | 19:08 |
| Mc | before LGM ? | 19:08 |
| Tav | The biggest issue, I think, is getting the Rennes hackfest organized. I thought I sent out a proposed resolution to the mailing list but it doesn't seem to have made it. | 19:08 |
| Tav | I was thinking of three days (Saturday, Sunday, Monday) before the hackfest. | 19:09 |
| Tav | (hackfest starts Tuesday) | 19:09 |
| Mc | there are 5 people currently listed on the attendees page | 19:09 |
| doctormo | Sounds good to me (organisationally). My main concern is that we have a person who can stick by the event and sort out the details. | 19:09 |
| Tav | We need to reach out to people. | 19:09 |
| Mc | we may have a bit more people, I think linkmauve will come for instance | 19:10 |
| Tav | Ah, I sent it to the SourceForge list... | 19:10 |
| Mc | not sure if others havent listed themselves | 19:11 |
| Tav | Oh, Bradley is sending mail to the SF list. | 19:11 |
| Mc | not to inkscape@sfconservancy ? | 19:12 |
| doctormo | It's time to shut those mailing lists down. | 19:12 |
| Tav | Oh, he responded to and email from Ted... so it is likely Ted that did it first. | 19:12 |
| tedg_ | Probably my fault, I'll mention it to him. | 19:13 |
| tedg_ | Reading on my phone. So slow replies 😉 | 19:13 |
| Tav | He's sent email to SF before, so maybe not. | 19:14 |
| Tav | Just sent out the proposed resolution to the proper board list. | 19:14 |
| doctormo | Right so between Tav and Mc (or someone else) do we have a responsible person who's doign the LGM hackfest? | 19:14 |
| doctormo | (It looks like Tav, just want to confirm that) | 19:15 |
| Tav | I plan on going. (I think I might be a responsible person). | 19:15 |
| Mc | responsible ? :D | 19:15 |
| Tav | OK,, maybe not. | 19:15 |
| doctormo | as in "Able to respond" | 19:16 |
| Mc | oh | 19:16 |
| Tav | I think between Mc and me, we can handle it. | 19:16 |
| Mc | :) | 19:16 |
| doctormo | So there's the venue to sort out and invitations to possible attendees. | 19:16 |
| Mc | venue is sorted out | 19:16 |
| Tav | We have a venue.... https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php?title=Hackfest2020_Rennes | 19:17 |
| doctormo | :thumbsup: | 19:17 |
| doctormo | Any other Hackfest related items we should discuss? | 19:18 |
| Tav | We should get to a vote, is Bryce still handling that? | 19:18 |
| Mc | just the budget allocation | 19:19 |
| doctormo | I think bryce would like that, but it's a standard allocation vote so I'm sure you can send direct to the mailing list. | 19:19 |
| tedg_ | Yeah, just use the template form so that it'll fit into the repo. | 19:20 |
| doctormo | Shall we move onto GSoC? | 19:20 |
| Tav | Sure. | 19:21 |
| Tav | ======== GSoC ========== | 19:21 |
| Mc | a lot of prospective applicants ^^ | 19:22 |
| Tav | We've had quite a few inquiries and a some patches submitted. I'm afraid I haven't kept careful track. | 19:22 |
| doctormo | Looks healthy | 19:22 |
| Mc | like ~4 serious ones before the applications even open | 19:22 |
| Tav | March 31st is the application deadline. | 19:24 |
| doctormo | do we need any vectors pushing for gsoc applications? | 19:24 |
| Mc | I don't think it would be ideal | 19:25 |
| Tav | It wouldn't hurt. But probably more useful for developers to help insure applicants have good plans in place. | 19:25 |
| Mc | (on a more vector-related topic, we have 0 planned talks about inkscape at lgm) | 19:25 |
| Tav | I'm not too worried about not having Inkscape talks at LGM. I think networking there is more important. | 19:26 |
| tedg_ | I think that talking about it also gets the idea of developing Inkscape out there. Even if not applications, and excuse to encourage developers. | 19:27 |
| doctormo | We'll bring it up tomrrow at the meeting | 19:28 |
| Tav | I'm really interested in seeing how the Spiro+ development is going. | 19:28 |
| Mc | raph levien curves ? | 19:28 |
| Tav | https://raphlinus.github.io/curves/2018/12/21/new-spline.html | 19:29 |
| tedg_ | Do we have to worry about the chance of LGM being cancelled for COVID-19? | 19:29 |
| Mc | I think it's small enough | 19:29 |
| Tav | It is a good fit for Inkscape as it can be perfectly described by Beziers. | 19:29 |
| Tav | It depends on how large and epidemic it becomes. I think will know in the next few weeks. | 19:30 |
| Tav | (At the moment it should be OK.) | 19:30 |
| tedg_ | K, cool. Really effecting events in the US right now 😕 | 19:31 |
| Mc | reading twitter it looks like americans are really "panicking" much more than europeans | 19:32 |
| doctormo | LibrePlanet released a statement, but otherwise ok | 19:32 |
| -!- ao2 [~ao2@host236-144-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 19:33 | |
| doctormo | There's a general sense of unease, but honestly, Boston is fine. Shops still have things. | 19:34 |
| Mc | but well, in that country one can pay 5k$ just when going to the doctor and people know it, and in france you will pay 2€ when going to the doctor and you know it, so maybe they're right ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 19:34 |
| doctormo | ;-) In the UK you pay £0 :-P (for now, all bets are off) | 19:35 |
| Mc | (anyway, back to the topic ? ^^) | 19:35 |
| doctormo | Are there any other things to talk about for GSoC? | 19:35 |
| Tav | BTW, everyone is covered in France for medical issues (even tourists). | 19:35 |
| Mc | not board-related | 19:35 |
| Mc | we might discuss proposal drafts | 19:36 |
| Tav | Do you have a list of drafts? | 19:36 |
| Mc | 2 sec | 19:36 |
| doctormo | (the next item is the release, which is also not board related, but I think very important to discuss when we get there) | 19:37 |
| doctormo | (the next item is the release, which is also not board related, but I think very important to discuss when we get there) | 19:37 |
| Mc | https://gitlab.com/rathod-sahaab/inkscape-2020-gsoc-proposal/-/blob/master/Application.md and https://gitlab.com/Phoenix181/gsoc-2020-proposal/-/blob/master/Application.md | 19:38 |
| Tav | Both look like they've given some serious thought to their applications. Aadhish's plan is over ambitious, I think, and probably needs to be restructured. | 19:43 |
| Mc | yeah the first two weeks could last for 10 weeks :D | 19:43 |
| doctormo | :-) | 19:44 |
| Tav | Abhay's got a good idea, but also probably needs some refining. | 19:44 |
| Tav | @ vanntile , aren't you applying? | 19:46 |
| Mc | (imo the first part may be easier than thought and the second part may need too much preliminary ui/ux work to be easily used) | 19:46 |
| Tav | I'm doubtful of the Python part, but the other parts maybe possible (especially after the action and shell mode work). | 19:48 |
| Mc | the first part looks "easy" : iirc scribus/blender/gimp/ do it already and there is a gtk method that lists all actions | 19:49 |
| Tav | Yes, we use the method to list the actions in the command line mode and also for command completion in the shell mode. | 19:50 |
| Mc | we need to make sure projects amount to ~3month of fulltime and mostly code | 19:50 |
| Tav | Yup! | 19:51 |
| Mc | about applicants, linkmauve will apply, btw | 19:51 |
| Tav | What about mentors? Do we need to recruit a couple more? | 19:53 |
| Mc | depends on what | 19:54 |
| Mc | I could mentor many stuff but I don't think I could mentor a project with a primary focus on a part of user interface | 19:55 |
| doctormo | I could probably do a UX/UI based mentoring. | 19:56 |
| Tav | We can also do some co-mentoring. | 19:56 |
| Mc | yes | 19:56 |
| tedg_ | If we have good applicants we should make sure to get more mentors listed for sure. I think that Google limits apps by number of mentors signed up. | 19:56 |
| Mc | we'll see depending on the number of good applicants when applications open | 19:56 |
| doctormo | We should get to the release discussion (almost an hour into the meeting) | 19:57 |
| Mc | ah yeah I didnt see the time | 19:57 |
| Mc | not a so short meeting after all, just not primarily about board matters :D | 19:57 |
| Tav | ========= Release Discussion ========== | 19:57 |
| doctormo | @ RdH @ede123 We probably need your current assessments. | 19:57 |
| Mc | + @speleo3 | 19:58 |
| RdH | I came prepared... | 19:58 |
| RdH | The overall status for macOS hasn't changed in the last months: there are a couple of serious issues that clearly say "don't call me 1.0 stable". | 19:58 |
| This should not block Inkscape's 1.0 release as the non-existing progress on the macOS front (to not step on anybody's toes: I'm talking about our serious GTK related issues) would stall that indefinitely. IMHO we need to figure out how we're going to call the macOS 1.0 to make clear it's not of the expected quality. And that it'll stay that way, presumably for a very long time, until somebody comes | 19:58 | |
| along who puts in the necessary work. | 19:58 | |
| https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=fcxZrQALhQvpuAiME | 19:58 | |
| Mc | :D | 19:58 |
| doctormo | "Inkscape 1.0 Experimental for MacOSX" | 19:59 |
| Mc | necessary work in gtk or in inkscape ? | 19:59 |
| doctormo | OK So apart fromt he MacOSX/Gtk specific issues, any notes about the quality of the codebase? | 19:59 |
| Tav | What are the serious macOS bugs. | 19:59 |
| RdH | Things like dialogs/windows not closing, staying semi-transparent, requiring the user to force-quit the app for instance | 20:00 |
| doctormo | Probably these three right? https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/-/boards | 20:00 |
| RdH | Just go to the issue tracker and the inbox, click on "OS:macOS" and you'll see who bad it is. | 20:00 |
| RdH | There are still a few things that I am working on but I consider them fixable. Not necessarily for 1.0 (depending on when that happens) but after. | 20:02 |
| RdH | (i.e. packaging related stuff, Python/extensions, ...) | 20:03 |
| speleo3 | there have been some improvements on the Gtk side, but here are very few macOS contributes for both Gtk and Inkscape, it's a second class citizen unfortunately. But the biggest concern for me is actually performance, for me Inkscape is just too slow on macOS for productive work | 20:03 |
| RdH | :-/ I was hoping that would improve as performance degradation was common among all the platforms? Or has that changed recently? | 20:04 |
| speleo3 | all platforms are affected, but I feel it the most on macOS | 20:04 |
| ede123 | No, on Windows performance of gtk3 is bad in general (with upstream being "doubtful" they'll ever be able to fix it in gtk3 branch) | 20:05 |
| ede123 | (not sure that makes any statement about gtk4 for that matter) | 20:05 |
| tedg_ | Who is working on GTK for OSX? I thought there were a couple of corps doing products with it, but no more? | 20:05 |
| doctormo | We're in a pretty nasty bind for Mac and Windows re Gtk it looks like. | 20:06 |
| doctormo | But this might not be something we can reasonably fix for 1.0 | 20:06 |
| Mc | nope | 20:07 |
| RdH | I only know (as in: knowing his name) John Ralls. I think he is the only one over there. | 20:07 |
| Mc | we can't migrate to gtk4 :D | 20:07 |
| doctormo | Should we release 1.0 for both windows and mac under the "sorry this sucks" banner? | 20:07 |
| Mc | we miiight be able to ask gtk people "uh, everything is slow, do you know how we could improve that ?" but with 0 hope | 20:07 |
| jabiertxof | hi | 20:08 |
| doctormo | Hi Jabier! | 20:09 |
| jabiertxof | slow is a rendering cairo issue or GTK one? | 20:09 |
| Mc | gtk | 20:09 |
| Mc | not really rendering, ui management | 20:09 |
| RdH | I have no reason to believe Gtk people are more interested in improving proprietary platforms then you guys (no offense) | 20:09 |
| jabiertxof | I have rendering issues slow on HiDPI displays that need to render double data | 20:10 |
| RdH | as in: they're probably all 100% Linux and free software advocates as well | 20:10 |
| ede123 | if we release as "sorry this sucks" there's not much point in releasing at all ^^ | 20:11 |
| doctormo | @ RdH that depends on the people, the company etc. the best situation is where there's a backer for a propritary platform. | 20:11 |
| ede123 | We should simply make it clear that there "can be performance degradations" | 20:11 |
| doctormo | @ ede123 There is a cost for not releasing at all. | 20:11 |
| ede123 | So people can decide for htemselves if they want functionality or performance | 20:12 |
| speleo3 | on the positive side: I think XML editor is in decent shape now (compared to the betas) | 20:12 |
| NPJ2000 | (I think 1.0 works wonderfully on macOS from my builds …) | 20:12 |
| doctormo | Thumbs up for being clear about the performance issues. | 20:13 |
| jabiertxof | I think the delay is a | 20:13 |
| jabiertxof | bout 80-90 rendering 10 ui | 20:14 |
| jabiertxof | as far my rendering test on linux | 20:14 |
| doctormo | Hmm, I'd put it at 60% rendering, 30% signals, 10% UI. | 20:14 |
| jabiertxof | maybe | 20:14 |
| speleo3 | fact is: the Gtk2 version on macOS feels fast! | 20:15 |
| jabiertxof | linux one also | 20:15 |
| jabiertxof | gtk2 is not HiDPI so double fast rendering | 20:17 |
| jabiertxof | on mac | 20:17 |
| doctormo | We can't go backwards (unfortunately). I've dealt with a couple of speed issues and most are too big to patch 1.0 properly. | 20:17 |
| doctormo | So we're stuck with a release that has issues, but we may not be able to fix for the release. | 20:17 |
| doctormo | Maybe I can get a show of hands/messages. What one thing would be demand we have before releasing? (straw poll) | 20:19 |
| jabiertxof | we can make optional hidpi | 20:19 |
| jabiertxof | rendering canvas | 20:19 |
| doctormo | Anyone else? | 20:19 |
| Mc | @jabiertxof ?? | 20:20 |
| Tav | No crashes. | 20:20 |
| jabiertxof | render canvas without HiDPI with a toogle button or a HiDPI display mode (sloweast)( | 20:21 |
| speleo3 | (can't name a fixable thing, I would release as-is) | 20:22 |
| Tav | I've fixed one of the two text blocker bugs. I'll get to the other in the next couple of days. | 20:22 |
| ede123 | I think we found a few more issues and caused a few regressions while fixing issues, so we should wrap that up properly. | 20:23 |
| (Nothing serious and we improved a lot, though!) | 20:23 | |
| jabiertxof | :) | 20:23 |
| ede123 | For example style/property handling seems still a bit fragile | 20:23 |
| Mc | (same as speleo3 , maybe https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/-/issues/539 ) | 20:23 |
| ede123 | (and obviously text - always text, especially with all the new SVG2 functionality) | 20:24 |
| Mc | +1, we need to make sure text "works" | 20:24 |
| doctormo | Yeah text causes me the most discomfort. But we've fixed quite a lot :-) | 20:25 |
| doctormo | I'll be asking the vector's team tomorrow the same question. | 20:25 |
| doctormo | Can I ask that if you know of issues that should block the release (as developers) please tag them as blockers. | 20:26 |
| doctormo | In GitLab. | 20:26 |
| ede123 | I think we still have differing definitions of "blocker" | 20:28 |
| ede123 | For me blocker means "there will never be another Inkscape release if we can not fix this" | 20:28 |
| Mc | same | 20:28 |
| ede123 | I've heard the term used more often as "user will be annoyed" recently | 20:28 |
| ede123 | (which is true for any bug and subjective) | 20:28 |
| ede123 | So we need to triage and fix the high-priority ones if possible (but they won't make Inkscape unusable per-se) | 20:29 |
| ede123 | If we can fix everytthing with high importance in this list we have a solid release IMHO: https://gitlab.com/groups/inkscape/-/milestones/1 | 20:30 |
| ede123 | If we can fix the medium priority bugs, too, we'll have a good release. | 20:31 |
| Moini | There are two 'Importance::High' labels? | 20:31 |
| Moini | (same number of associated issues, though) | 20:32 |
| vanntile | [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=ruXhRWjquzupA2qzj) @ Tav Hey, I will be applying, but I had a giant uni project that just finished and didn't have the time for making the application | 20:32 |
| vanntile | I've been thinking of what's the best thing I should apply for though | 20:33 |
| vanntile | Advice? | 20:33 |
| doctormo | The blocking statement is literally because when asked people would shy away from committing to a release, but wouldn't be able to say why. These items are more definitive. | 20:33 |
| Tav | @ vanntile Good to know! I don't have any advice at the moment, ping me next week if you still need advice. | 20:34 |
| vanntile | Ok, we'll talk | 20:34 |
| ede123 | @ doctormo But t´hen we won't release... | 20:34 |
| doctormo | Or we will, either way. | 20:34 |
| doctormo | Personally I think we should move to release in the next three weeks. | 20:34 |
| ede123 | The the blocker label is worth nothing | 20:35 |
| doctormo | Push to get as much fixed in that time, but do the deed. | 20:35 |
| doctormo | OK, it looks like we've reached the end of this discussion (at least in terms of what people think of where we are). Tav should we wrap up the meeting? | 20:37 |
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| Tav | Yup, I've got to go... | 20:37 |
| doctormo | Thanks everyone! | 20:38 |
| Mc | thanks everyone | 20:38 |
| doctormo | ================ Meeting End =================== | 20:39 |
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