| bryce | hi all | May 01 10:02 |
|---|---|---|
| doctormo | hi bryce! | May 01 10:02 |
| ryangorley | Hey | May 01 10:02 |
| bryce | tedg, meeting time? | May 01 10:02 |
| Mc | hi all ! | May 01 10:02 |
| c.rogers | Hi. | May 01 10:02 |
| Tim | Hi All, I'm just lurking... ;-) | May 01 10:02 |
| Moini | Hi! | May 01 10:03 |
| tedg | Yup! | May 01 10:03 |
| *tedg waves | May 01 10:03 | |
| RdH | Hi. | May 01 10:03 |
| mgmax | hi :-) | May 01 10:03 |
| bryce | === Inkscape Board meeting === | May 01 10:04 |
| bryce | I don't know if we have an agenda, other than congrats to everyone working on the 1.0 release. | May 01 10:05 |
| *tedg claps | May 01 10:05 | |
| Mc | \o/ | May 01 10:06 |
| tedg | Do we have any issues we need to talk about there? | May 01 10:06 |
| c.rogers | [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=q2kKjNZvRR5XjGXfa) @ inkchatbot Sure thing! *editing intensifies* | May 01 10:06 |
| tedg | Not guessing there's much board stuff. | May 01 10:06 |
| bryce | yeah looking through past agendas and transcripts... | May 01 10:06 |
| Moini | (are the transcripts available now?) | May 01 10:07 |
| bryce | I've not checked but am guessing LGM is not going to be a thing | May 01 10:07 |
| bryce | Moini, https://alpha.inkscape.org/board/meetings/transcripts | May 01 10:07 |
| Moini | It's postponed to next year. | May 01 10:07 |
| tedg | I think our board meetings tend to focus on events, and events are all maybe right now. | May 01 10:07 |
| Moini | April one is still missing. | May 01 10:07 |
| bryce | last posted agenda was https://alpha.inkscape.org/board/meetings/agendas/2020-02-07.html | May 01 10:07 |
| Moini | Who collects and posts the log for this one? | May 01 10:08 |
| doctormo | I think there's a small discussion about versioning. 1.1 vs. 2.0 for the next version. And a note about taking a break. And I have a small discussion about how to run a virtual hackfest after the break. | May 01 10:08 |
| bryce | mailing lists... I still need to close the SF lists for inkscape-devel@, inkscape-announce@ and inkscape-user@; I was thinking of waiting until post-release to avoid disruption. But can close them now if anyone thinks that'd be better | May 01 10:09 |
| tedg | bryce: I can take over posting them, but I'd like your script to do it ;-) | May 01 10:09 |
| c.rogers | I'll take a break when I'm dead. | May 01 10:09 |
| c.rogers | (that may be soon, at this rate) ;P | May 01 10:09 |
| bryce | tedg, ok, I'll send them over | May 01 10:09 |
| Moini | tedg <3 thanks! | May 01 10:09 |
| bryce | anyone have the irc log from the april meeting? | May 01 10:10 |
| doctormo | @ bryce closing lists now is good. | May 01 10:10 |
| Moini | Mc, maybe? | May 01 10:11 |
| tedg | If nothing else I keep accidentally posting meeting announcements to sf.net. Getting bounces may cure me ;-) | May 01 10:11 |
| bryce | tedg, :-D | May 01 10:12 |
| tedg | doctormo, so on the versioning stuff, should we discuss that here? Seems like a good mailing list thread? | May 01 10:12 |
| mgmax | Not sure if it's a point for this meeting, but it seems some bugs on the "release blockers" list were forgotten (it says "fixed" but they aren't): https://gitlab.com/inkscape/vectors/general/-/issues/136 | May 01 10:12 |
| bryce | I figure there may be people on the old announce list that won't have subbed to the new one, so thought Vectors might like to use it to send out a note to them (and to invite them to the new announce list), before I close it | May 01 10:13 |
| tedg | I feel like we'd need wider input there, especially from Vectors folks. | May 01 10:13 |
| Mc | for the minutes we should also fix the CI that formats and uploads them :p | May 01 10:13 |
| Moini | Couldn't the version announcement just contain an extra sentence for the old lists, and then close? | May 01 10:13 |
| bryce | yeah something like that would be good | May 01 10:14 |
| Mc | I should prepare the emails | May 01 10:14 |
| bryce | regarding version, I've always assumed we'd go to 1.1, 1.2, etc. but having a goal for what will be in 2.0 is a good idea, I don't recall if there was any thought given to that | May 01 10:15 |
| Mc | gtk4 for 2.0 ? | May 01 10:16 |
| bryce | Mc, I have notes from working on that but never got happy with it | May 01 10:16 |
| Moini | Would it make sense to set yourself a reminder for closing them in a week, to account for any delays in email sending/receiving, Bryce? | May 01 10:16 |
| bryce | Mc, seems sensible | May 01 10:16 |
| tedg | Yeah, my other thought is that master could be "pre 2.0" and if we decide to fork off a "1.1.x" that's cool too. They don't need to be exclusionary. | May 01 10:16 |
| Moini | And for Marc to add that sentence for those lists. | May 01 10:16 |
| bryce | Moini, sure I can do that | May 01 10:17 |
| bryce | may 7th | May 01 10:17 |
| tedg | Yes, GTK4 could be potentially a big step for us. Especially if somone makes the canvas use their scenegraph stuff. Not sure how we could push it. | May 01 10:18 |
| Tim | I think point releases are sensible. A 2.0 release implies new big features... to me anyway! | May 01 10:18 |
| doctormo | I say multi page and cmyk for 2.0 | May 01 10:18 |
| Mc | and gpu rendering ? | May 01 10:18 |
| mgmax | @ tedg How do you mean that? Keeping three branches open (1.0, 1.1 and master=pre2.0)? Or going from 1.0 immediately to 1.1 without any 1.0.1 patch release? | May 01 10:18 |
| doctormo | Ok, three, there are three things, multi-page, cmyk and gpu rendering. | May 01 10:18 |
| Mc | (and gtk4) | May 01 10:19 |
| NPJ2000 | The only 1.0 launch aspect I'd like to consider is *_possible_* localization of the `default.svg` when it is evident that the user has a web browser set to `en_US` as the language to set the paper size to Letter in lieu of A4, but I realize that would require multiple compiled binaries ... it is going to be one of the first confusion points from people who are new to Inkscape and are n | May 01 10:19 |
| bryce | heh | May 01 10:19 |
| ot likely to notice or be aware of that setting once they start to compose a work with the software until they begin to notice the differences in certain output formats later ... | May 01 10:19 | |
| c.rogers | *drools, just hearing that list* | May 01 10:19 |
| doctormo | Well of course Gtk4! who would forget gtk4! ;-) | May 01 10:19 |
| prkos | maybe ask users after they try 1.0 what they think is sensible for 2.0? | May 01 10:19 |
| Mc | I got that reference :D | May 01 10:19 |
| tedg | mgmax, keeping master as "pre2.0" and then if we fork from that just changing it to "1.1" on the branch. | May 01 10:19 |
| c.rogers | We should crowdfund for 2.0 | May 01 10:19 |
| c.rogers | I mean, seriously. | May 01 10:20 |
| tedg | NPJ2000, why do we need two binaries for that? | May 01 10:20 |
| Mc | "but apart from gtk4, multipage, cmyk and gpu rendering, what have the romans made for inkscape 2.0 ?" | May 01 10:20 |
| doctormo | We should crowd fund for the specific goals and say in the that this is our 2.0 criteria. | May 01 10:20 |
| mgmax | @ tedg , continuing 1.0.x or forking some time after 1.0 was abandoned for 1.1? | May 01 10:20 |
| tedg | Can't we just make which default file we open a translatable string? | May 01 10:20 |
| doctormo | Mc :-D | May 01 10:20 |
| c.rogers | [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=CfyAv9PyPzjXJuCGM) @ doctormo Yes, exactly, | May 01 10:20 |
| doctormo | OK I'd like to put the details for this of until the hackfest | May 01 10:21 |
| mgmax | If allowed to dream, I'd choose "no more crashes" for Inkscape 2.0. It shouldn't die anymore from dividing by zero | May 01 10:21 |
| tedg | mgmax, Genereally we've kept the stable branches bugfix only. So on the 1.0.x branch would only be third point releases. | May 01 10:21 |
| NPJ2000 | @ tedg : I'm not certain - in the case of macOS, the default.svg is part of the application bundle, so it would seem that would be true for all instances (regardless of the OS used). | May 01 10:21 |
| tedg | doctormo, yes I think a hackfest is a good time for long term goals for releases. | May 01 10:21 |
| RdH | Only Chuck Norris can divide by zero. | May 01 10:22 |
| Mc | yay, goal of an empty list in scan-build report :p | May 01 10:22 |
| c.rogers | No more crashes doesn't make a compelling crowdfunding platform. ;P | May 01 10:22 |
| mgmax | Doesn't inkscape already choose "default_DE.svg" or similar? | May 01 10:22 |
| tedg | NPJ2000, we'd just have to ship two. "default.letter.svg" and "default.a4.svg" and choose which one based on locale. | May 01 10:22 |
| Mc | (only 2 divisions by 0 right now) | May 01 10:22 |
| tedg | If we have two, do they cancel each other out? | May 01 10:22 |
| Mc | nope | May 01 10:22 |
| mgmax | considering that software checking is almost impossible, I'm not sure how comprehensive the scan-build thing is | May 01 10:23 |
| Mc | (one in filter effects, one for autotrace) | May 01 10:23 |
| mgmax | or does it yield lots of probably-false-positives? | May 01 10:23 |
| Mc | not lots | May 01 10:23 |
| bryce | one thing I've learned the hard way trying to plan milestones for inkscape is to organize them not about what users want, but around what developers plan to put time into. Things no one is planning to work on, won't get done no matter how much people want them... ;-) | May 01 10:24 |
| bryce | but sounds like good ideas, and great to hash out at next hackfest. | May 01 10:24 |
| Mc | like rewriting cairo from scratch around a color management system | May 01 10:24 |
| mgmax | just as a stupid idea regarding crashes: Siemens NX (a major CAD tool) catches weird bugs in its low-level geometry library by "undoing" to the last step before the crash | May 01 10:25 |
| tedg | For sure, but having goals that people generally want to see is good for encouraging people and bringing on new developers. | May 01 10:25 |
| doctormo | Yes, is this a good time to bring up the hackfest. My plan is [after a suitable break] to ask everyone to come prepared with the thing they want to do/get done for 1.1. | May 01 10:25 |
| prkos | @ bryce that is all mitigated with paid development, right? | May 01 10:25 |
| c.rogers | [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=vGvkQ4WJQquH8A8Dq) @ inkchatbot Well, unless we get enough funding to hire it out. | May 01 10:25 |
| bryce | Mc, I'm imagining the gpu acceleration is going to == convert to skia. | May 01 10:25 |
| Mc | dunno | May 01 10:26 |
| doctormo | So, after this release is settled. I'm taking a two month break from Inkscape (just bug fixes and such like) and then I propose we come back sometime July for a hackfest online. | May 01 10:26 |
| Mc | you're forgetting about gsoc :D | May 01 10:27 |
| doctormo | APART from the mentoring in GSoC | May 01 10:27 |
| bryce | ah, how's gsoc going? | May 01 10:27 |
| Mc | (and gsod if you were planning to apply) | May 01 10:27 |
| Mc | we have fewer slots than applicants, and did a choice | May 01 10:27 |
| doctormo | Mc: I had a look at Gsod; it's good, we should do it; but we should have a docs team with more people and strength to do it right. | May 01 10:27 |
| Mc | if we had a docs team we would not need it ? :p | May 01 10:28 |
| Mc | this can bootstrap such a team | May 01 10:28 |
| c.rogers | I'm so friggin excited about hardware acceleration. lol | May 01 10:28 |
| tedg | Not sure a hackfest online is that useful, but I do think hoping for a Fall hackfest is reasonable. We'll have to see how viruses do over this summer. | May 01 10:28 |
| Mc | @bryce everything is still under embargo for 3 more days | May 01 10:29 |
| bryce | c.rogers don't get too excited, that's a long road paved entirely with bugs ;-) | May 01 10:29 |
| bryce | Mc, ok | May 01 10:29 |
| c.rogers | Cute bugs. | May 01 10:29 |
| Mc | (announcement of students is May 4th, 18h UTC) | May 01 10:29 |
| Mc | "Project decisions are being finalized. Do not communicate decisions to students before they are announced by Google on the website and emails are sent on May 4, 2020." | May 01 10:29 |
| bryce | *nod* | May 01 10:29 |
| c.rogers | , see on https://chat.inkscape.org//file-upload/uX89pjjzP52bC3xbc/Vee_Doubleyou_Bug_300.gif (Vee_Doubleyou_Bug_300.gif) | May 01 10:30 |
| c.rogers | Hardware acellerated bug anyone? | May 01 10:30 |
| c.rogers | vrooooooom. XD | May 01 10:30 |
| bryce | hehe | May 01 10:30 |
| bryce | oh, I had a question on weblate | May 01 10:31 |
| bryce | I recall it was getting worked on, but kind of lost track of progress of where it's at currently, or if it's still under work? | May 01 10:32 |
| doctormo | @ tedg If we do an EU in person thing, I'd still need to join remotely. And I do want to take part in the discussions. | May 01 10:32 |
| Moini | As far as I know it got stalled on bugs and workflow details. | May 01 10:32 |
| bryce | ok | May 01 10:33 |
| Moini | And now it sounds as if we wouldn't have server resources. | May 01 10:33 |
| Moini | Patrick might remember more. | May 01 10:33 |
| tedg | doctormo, okay. I guess I wasn't saying it had to be EU either... | May 01 10:33 |
| doctormo | It kind of does, that's where all our active people are ;-) | May 01 10:34 |
| bryce | I still have a node allocated for weblate but will delete it for now, if it gets worked on again I think we can tighten belts and fit it in, but no need to have a node allocated until then | May 01 10:34 |
| Moini | Ah, so that was why you were asking. | May 01 10:35 |
| bryce | mc, I also wanted to ask if the Kiwi TCMS devel node is still needed? | May 01 10:35 |
| doctormo | tedg: of course a US AND EU joint super mega online extravganza would be fun too. | May 01 10:35 |
| bryce | prkos, I also have one allocated to you for forums (devel-01.inkscape.org), is it ok if I free that one or do you need it still? | May 01 10:36 |
| michele | [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=XhS5t4ufg2QB2vW4Q) @ doctormo Can we broaden that to the Americas? | May 01 10:36 |
| tedg | If it has "mega" and "extravaganza" in the name, how could it not be fun? ;-) | May 01 10:36 |
| doctormo | @ michele I think it can. | May 01 10:36 |
| prkos | I forgot exactly where forum is hosted | May 01 10:36 |
| bryce | the reason I'd like to free any unused ones is so we have capacity to add other nodes, not because we're over limit currently | May 01 10:36 |
| prkos | and where forum old cache is | May 01 10:36 |
| prkos | but if it's not being used then we don't need it | May 01 10:37 |
| tedg | All for it being the Americas, but further North the earlier in Fall it needs to be :-) | May 01 10:37 |
| doctormo | @ prkos inkscape.org/forum is on OSUOSL. The old caches are all on alpha I think if memory serves. | May 01 10:37 |
| Mc | bryce: dunno, it did not seem to cause a lot of enthusiasm | May 01 10:37 |
| bryce | prkos, my records have it as devel-01.inkscape.org, which I've just powered on if you want to log in and look | May 01 10:37 |
| Mc | I still think it can be useful | May 01 10:37 |
| prkos | unless you want to reserve it for paid development maybe | May 01 10:37 |
| doctormo | https://alpha.inkscape.org/vectors/www.inkscapeforum.com/ | May 01 10:38 |
| prkos | yes I think we have alpha and OSUOSL | May 01 10:38 |
| bryce | yeah the forums _cache_ is on alpha, but devel-01 was for a new forum software, which I think we're not doing | May 01 10:38 |
| doctormo | Ah yes. | May 01 10:39 |
| prkos | yes I think so | May 01 10:40 |
| bryce | alright, thanks | May 01 10:40 |
| tedg | Interesting it seems like a lot of OSS projects are merging their mailing lists an forums using Discourse. | May 01 10:41 |
| tedg | GNOME has, Ubuntu basically has, etc. | May 01 10:41 |
| tedg | I don't like it, but I'm old. | May 01 10:41 |
| c.rogers | PS- if you folks want to join in some Linuxy conversations, I've started moving my London Linux Group hangouts too Jitsi. You are all welcome to join in. | May 01 10:41 |
| bryce | yeah they're pushing discourse at canonical | May 01 10:41 |
| Moini | Heh, I don't like how hard it is to find something again on those forums... without structure. | May 01 10:41 |
| doctormo | tedg: We've basically moved to GitLab/RocketChat | May 01 10:41 |
| bryce | https://gitlab.com/bryceharrington/post-discourse | May 01 10:42 |
| irker341 | [inkscape] Thomas Holder pushed 1 new commit to master: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/compare/e2ead1f7...ba516bcd | May 01 10:42 |
| prkos | @ bryce there are some backups in /var on devel-01 and nothing else | May 01 10:43 |
| bryce | Moini yeah I don't like that either. Formatting is super limited too, I miss mediawiki | May 01 10:43 |
| bryce | prkos great thanks for taking a look | May 01 10:43 |
| tedg | Yeah, I realize. I realize people are happy, but I'm a little worried we adopted "next-gen chat" too early. A lot of OSS folks are going to Matrix too. | May 01 10:43 |
| doctormo | What would open source be if it wasn't a shanty town of Adobe housing. | May 01 10:44 |
| Moini | Btw. this chat uses a third-party service for sending emails. | May 01 10:44 |
| c.rogers | I think we should have adopted this like ages ago. | May 01 10:44 |
| Moini | With limited amount of emails. | May 01 10:44 |
| c.rogers | This is not just good, it's excellent. | May 01 10:44 |
| Mc | at least matrix users can get to IRC | May 01 10:44 |
| doctormo | Yeah we REALLY need to sort out our email situation. The number of people complaining they don't get emails from inkscape.org is a real burden. | May 01 10:44 |
| Moini | But it is great for driving community involvement (the chat, not the email issues). | May 01 10:45 |
| tedg | Yes, I'm using IRC through Matrix now. | May 01 10:45 |
| doctormo | tedg: That says we're already on Matrix :-P by proxy proxy | May 01 10:45 |
| c.rogers | [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=gyGmvjFiFc6nTskBP) @ inkchatbot It's too much to set up vs this chat. | May 01 10:45 |
| tedg | Anyway, I'm not saying that we need to change everything. Just watching the landscape. | May 01 10:45 |
| bryce | yeah | May 01 10:46 |
| bryce | fwiw in looking at mailing list archives it struck me how little use we make of them compared with years ago | May 01 10:46 |
| tedg | doctormo, yes, but with bad formatting. Matrix sets up puppets to map user names. | May 01 10:46 |
| Mc | bryce: many technical discussions happen on gitlab now | May 01 10:47 |
| Mc | especially on merge requests | May 01 10:47 |
| bryce | Mc, yeah that works so much better for that | May 01 10:47 |
| Mc | I receive much, much, much, much more emails from gitlab than I ever did on inkscape-devel | May 01 10:47 |
| bryce | and user discussions seem more likely to occur on social media these days | May 01 10:47 |
| doctormo | I had to cut mine down, I don't get inbox messages for example. | May 01 10:48 |
| Moini | Did that yesterday, too :) | May 01 10:48 |
| doctormo | (which means I'm really leaning on the new bugs team to move bugs around before I will even see them) | May 01 10:48 |
| c.rogers | [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=k9KwrRJzmB4LESSQF) @ inkchatbot vs IRC? That's been the case for a LONG time now. lol IRC is a mysterious old-nerd/hacker thing to most regular users. | May 01 10:48 |
| bryce | alright, ten minutes left, any other board topics to discuss? | May 01 10:48 |
| Mc | (total 13k emails from 7yr of inkscape-devel, 21k from 3yr of gitlab, 17k from 5 yr of launchpad) | May 01 10:49 |
| bryce | doctormo, that's excellent - exactly what we hoped to get | May 01 10:49 |
| doctormo | I think that's it. We're not moving on the hiring front and I've been reading up on what python (the org) are doing there. | May 01 10:49 |
| tedg | We should talk to Vectors if they need tools to manage our social networking better. The pros have tools to manage inbox style social networking stuff. | May 01 10:49 |
| c.rogers | Oh, actually, I was going to ask something. | May 01 10:49 |
| doctormo | So we should talk about that at some point. But maybe when I've got a shore footing of how they're doing contracting. | May 01 10:49 |
| c.rogers | I'd like to get a hardware HDMI recorder, which plugs in between a monitor and my laptop. | May 01 10:50 |
| tedg | Cool, GNOME hired a bunch of people this year. It would be interesting to talk to them more as well. | May 01 10:50 |
| c.rogers | It takes the burden off the CPU of making screencasts, and the results are much smoother. | May 01 10:51 |
| mgmax | [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=A69924QczCKkHCpLr) How is the 1.0 release timeline going, or where's the right point to raise this issue? | May 01 10:51 |
| c.rogers | Can I get funding for that from the project? I'll use it to make future videos for the project, and it will be useful for livestreams, which I want to start doing as an extension of Inkscope. | May 01 10:52 |
| tedg | I think that is reasonable, do you have a cost estimate and all that? | May 01 10:52 |
| c.rogers | I already bought my own webcam and mic, so that's sorted. | May 01 10:52 |
| c.rogers | Not yet. I'll do some research on the best one. | May 01 10:53 |
| c.rogers | If at least, in theory people are okay with it. :) | May 01 10:53 |
| tedg | I don't speak for "people" -- only myself ;-) | May 01 10:54 |
| c.rogers | Yes, that's why I'm waiting for others to chime in too. ;) | May 01 10:54 |
| Tim | https://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4k | May 01 10:55 |
| doctormo | @ mgmax The release blockers wasn't forgotten. It was processed. We got a lot done. | May 01 10:55 |
| bryce | yeah do some research, I'm guessing it's in the $100-200 range but see what makes sense | May 01 10:55 |
| tedg | But yes, I think it is something to build up our image as being more professional. | May 01 10:55 |
| tedg | I'd love for us to have some curriated recommend videos or something like that. | May 01 10:55 |
| mgmax | @ doctormo it says "fixed" in the table but as far as I could check it isn't, the corresponding issues are also still open. | May 01 10:56 |
| c.rogers | I have a whole series planned. | May 01 10:56 |
| bryce | yeah videos are how things are learned these days, for sure | May 01 10:56 |
| tedg | Does Blender get money off their videos on YouTube? | May 01 10:56 |
| tedg | Not sure how that works. | May 01 10:56 |
| c.rogers | I don't think so. | May 01 10:56 |
| doctormo | I have a series of tutorials for extensions that involve video too. But maybe I'll get Chris to front them. | May 01 10:56 |
| c.rogers | Blender doesn't need to though. They are very very well funded from elsewhere. | May 01 10:57 |
| c.rogers | Including game companies. | May 01 10:57 |
| Tim | you need 1000 subscribers to get monetized now | May 01 10:57 |
| NPJ2000 | That should take what, a minute? :) | May 01 10:57 |
| c.rogers | If we start posting regular videos from the project on our Facebook group, yea, that would take only a minute. | May 01 10:58 |
| bryce | alright, I smell breakfast cookin', if no one has anything else let's wrap | May 01 10:58 |
| c.rogers | Yea, I need to get back to the video editing. | May 01 10:59 |
| bryce | thanks all! | May 01 10:59 |
| doctormo | Thanks bryce! | May 01 10:59 |
| bryce | === End of Meeting === | May 01 10:59 |
| ryangorley | :wave: | May 01 10:59 |
| Moini | I think Ryan was still wanting to get an estimate on the timing, Chris. | May 01 10:59 |
| Tim | enjoyed my first Board meeting... bye all | May 01 10:59 |
| c.rogers | _gets out boombox and lowers disco ball for the after-meeting party._ | May 01 10:59 |
| Moini | Thanks, Bryce! Bye Tim, thanks for lurking :) | May 01 11:00 |
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