Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2020-05-01

brycehi allMay 01 10:02
doctormohi bryce!May 01 10:02
ryangorleyHeyMay 01 10:02
brycetedg, meeting time?May 01 10:02
Mchi all !May 01 10:02
c.rogersHi.May 01 10:02
TimHi All, I'm just lurking... ;-)May 01 10:02
MoiniHi!May 01 10:03
tedgYup!May 01 10:03
*tedg wavesMay 01 10:03
RdHHi.May 01 10:03
mgmaxhi :-)May 01 10:03
bryce=== Inkscape Board meeting ===May 01 10:04
bryceI don't know if we have an agenda, other than congrats to everyone working on the 1.0 release.May 01 10:05
*tedg clapsMay 01 10:05
Mc\o/May 01 10:06
tedgDo we have any issues we need to talk about there?May 01 10:06
c.rogers[ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=q2kKjNZvRR5XjGXfa) @ inkchatbot  Sure thing! *editing intensifies*May 01 10:06
tedgNot guessing there's much board stuff.May 01 10:06
bryceyeah looking through past agendas and transcripts...May 01 10:06
Moini(are the transcripts available now?)May 01 10:07
bryceI've not checked but am guessing LGM is not going to be a thingMay 01 10:07
bryceMoini, https://alpha.inkscape.org/board/meetings/transcriptsMay 01 10:07
MoiniIt's postponed to next year.May 01 10:07
tedgI think our board meetings tend to focus on events, and events are all maybe right now.May 01 10:07
MoiniApril one is still missing.May 01 10:07
brycelast posted agenda was https://alpha.inkscape.org/board/meetings/agendas/2020-02-07.htmlMay 01 10:07
MoiniWho collects and posts the log for this one?May 01 10:08
doctormoI think there's a small discussion about versioning. 1.1 vs. 2.0 for the next version. And a note about taking a break. And I have a small discussion about how to run a virtual hackfest after the break.May 01 10:08
brycemailing lists...  I still need to close the SF lists for inkscape-devel@, inkscape-announce@ and inkscape-user@; I was thinking of waiting until post-release to avoid disruption.  But can close them now if anyone thinks that'd be betterMay 01 10:09
tedgbryce: I can take over posting them, but I'd like your script to do it ;-)May 01 10:09
c.rogersI'll take a break when I'm dead.May 01 10:09
c.rogers(that may be soon, at this rate) ;PMay 01 10:09
brycetedg, ok, I'll send them overMay 01 10:09
Moinitedg <3 thanks!May 01 10:09
bryceanyone have the irc log from the april meeting?May 01 10:10
doctormo@ bryce  closing lists now is good.May 01 10:10
MoiniMc, maybe?May 01 10:11
tedgIf nothing else I keep accidentally posting meeting announcements to sf.net. Getting bounces may cure me ;-)May 01 10:11
brycetedg, :-DMay 01 10:12
tedgdoctormo, so on the versioning stuff, should we discuss that here? Seems like a good mailing list thread?May 01 10:12
mgmaxNot sure if it's a point for this meeting, but it seems some bugs on the "release blockers" list were forgotten (it says "fixed" but they aren't): https://gitlab.com/inkscape/vectors/general/-/issues/136May 01 10:12
bryceI figure there may be people on the old announce list that won't have subbed to the new one, so thought Vectors might like to use it to send out a note to them (and to invite them to the new announce list), before I close itMay 01 10:13
tedgI feel like we'd need wider input there, especially from Vectors folks.May 01 10:13
Mcfor the minutes we should also fix the CI that formats and uploads them :pMay 01 10:13
MoiniCouldn't the version announcement just contain an extra sentence for the old lists, and then close?May 01 10:13
bryceyeah something like that would be goodMay 01 10:14
McI should prepare the emailsMay 01 10:14
bryceregarding version, I've always assumed we'd go to 1.1, 1.2, etc.  but having a goal for what will be in 2.0 is a good idea, I don't recall if there was any thought given to thatMay 01 10:15
Mcgtk4 for 2.0 ?May 01 10:16
bryceMc, I have notes from working on that but never got happy with itMay 01 10:16
MoiniWould it make sense to set yourself a reminder for closing them in a week, to account for any delays in email sending/receiving, Bryce?May 01 10:16
bryceMc, seems sensibleMay 01 10:16
tedgYeah, my other thought is that master could be "pre 2.0" and if we decide to fork off a "1.1.x" that's cool too. They don't need to be exclusionary.May 01 10:16
MoiniAnd for Marc to add that sentence for those lists.May 01 10:16
bryceMoini, sure I can do thatMay 01 10:17
brycemay 7thMay 01 10:17
tedgYes, GTK4 could be potentially a big step for us. Especially if somone makes the canvas use their scenegraph stuff. Not sure how we could push it.May 01 10:18
TimI think point releases are sensible. A 2.0 release implies new big features... to me anyway!May 01 10:18
doctormoI say multi page and cmyk for 2.0May 01 10:18
Mcand gpu rendering ?May 01 10:18
mgmax@ tedg  How do you mean that? Keeping three branches open (1.0, 1.1 and master=pre2.0)? Or going from 1.0 immediately to 1.1 without any 1.0.1 patch release?May 01 10:18
doctormoOk, three, there are three things, multi-page, cmyk and gpu rendering.May 01 10:18
Mc(and gtk4)May 01 10:19
NPJ2000The only 1.0 launch aspect I'd like to consider is *_possible_* localization of the `default.svg` when it is evident that the user has a web browser set to `en_US` as the language to set the paper size to Letter in lieu of A4, but I realize that would require multiple compiled binaries ... it is going to be one of the first confusion points from people who are new to Inkscape and are nMay 01 10:19
brycehehMay 01 10:19
ot likely to notice or be aware of that setting once they start to compose a work with the software until they begin to notice the differences in certain output formats later ...May 01 10:19
c.rogers*drools, just hearing that list*May 01 10:19
doctormoWell of course Gtk4! who would forget gtk4! ;-)May 01 10:19
prkosmaybe ask users after they try 1.0 what they think is sensible for 2.0?May 01 10:19
McI got that reference :DMay 01 10:19
tedgmgmax, keeping master as "pre2.0" and then if we fork from that just changing it to "1.1" on the branch.May 01 10:19
c.rogersWe should crowdfund for 2.0May 01 10:19
c.rogersI mean, seriously.May 01 10:20
tedgNPJ2000, why do we need two binaries for that?May 01 10:20
Mc"but apart from gtk4, multipage, cmyk and gpu rendering, what have the romans made for inkscape 2.0 ?"May 01 10:20
doctormoWe should crowd fund for the specific goals and say in the that this is our 2.0 criteria.May 01 10:20
mgmax@ tedg , continuing 1.0.x or forking some time after 1.0 was abandoned for 1.1?May 01 10:20
tedgCan't we just make which default file we open a translatable string?May 01 10:20
doctormoMc :-DMay 01 10:20
c.rogers[ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=CfyAv9PyPzjXJuCGM) @ doctormo  Yes, exactly,May 01 10:20
doctormoOK I'd like to put the details for this of until the hackfestMay 01 10:21
mgmaxIf allowed to dream, I'd choose "no more crashes" for Inkscape 2.0. It shouldn't die anymore from dividing by zeroMay 01 10:21
tedgmgmax, Genereally we've kept the stable branches bugfix only. So on the 1.0.x branch would only be third point releases.May 01 10:21
NPJ2000@ tedg  : I'm not certain - in the case of macOS, the default.svg is part of the application bundle, so it would seem that would be true for all instances (regardless of the OS used).May 01 10:21
tedgdoctormo, yes I think a hackfest is a good time for long term goals for releases.May 01 10:21
RdHOnly Chuck Norris can divide by zero.May 01 10:22
Mcyay, goal of an empty list in scan-build report :pMay 01 10:22
c.rogersNo more crashes doesn't make a compelling crowdfunding platform. ;PMay 01 10:22
mgmaxDoesn't inkscape already choose "default_DE.svg" or similar?May 01 10:22
tedgNPJ2000, we'd just have to ship two. "default.letter.svg" and "default.a4.svg" and choose which one based on locale.May 01 10:22
Mc(only 2 divisions by 0 right now)May 01 10:22
tedgIf we have two, do they cancel each other out?May 01 10:22
McnopeMay 01 10:22
mgmaxconsidering that software checking is almost impossible, I'm not sure how comprehensive the scan-build thing isMay 01 10:23
Mc(one in filter effects, one for autotrace)May 01 10:23
mgmaxor does it yield lots of probably-false-positives?May 01 10:23
Mcnot lotsMay 01 10:23
bryceone thing I've learned the hard way trying to plan milestones for inkscape is to organize them not about what users want, but around what developers plan to put time into.  Things no one is planning to work on, won't get done no matter how much people want them...  ;-)May 01 10:24
brycebut sounds like good ideas, and great to hash out at next hackfest.May 01 10:24
Mclike rewriting cairo from scratch around a color management systemMay 01 10:24
mgmaxjust as a stupid idea regarding crashes: Siemens NX (a major CAD tool) catches weird bugs in its low-level geometry library by "undoing" to the last step before the crashMay 01 10:25
tedgFor sure, but having goals that people generally want to see is good for encouraging people and bringing on new developers.May 01 10:25
doctormoYes, is this a good time to bring up the hackfest. My plan is [after a suitable break] to ask everyone to come prepared with the thing they want to do/get done for 1.1.May 01 10:25
prkos@ bryce  that is all mitigated with paid development, right?May 01 10:25
c.rogers[ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=vGvkQ4WJQquH8A8Dq) @ inkchatbot  Well, unless we get enough funding to hire it out.May 01 10:25
bryceMc, I'm imagining the gpu acceleration is going to == convert to skia.May 01 10:25
McdunnoMay 01 10:26
doctormoSo, after this release is settled. I'm taking a two month break from Inkscape (just bug fixes and such like) and then I propose we come back sometime July for a hackfest online.May 01 10:26
Mcyou're forgetting about gsoc :DMay 01 10:27
doctormoAPART from the mentoring in GSoCMay 01 10:27
bryceah, how's gsoc going?May 01 10:27
Mc(and gsod if you were planning to apply)May 01 10:27
Mcwe have fewer slots than applicants, and did a choiceMay 01 10:27
doctormoMc: I had a look at Gsod; it's good, we should do it; but we should have a docs team with more people and strength to do it right.May 01 10:27
Mcif we had a docs team we would not need it ? :pMay 01 10:28
Mcthis can bootstrap such a teamMay 01 10:28
c.rogersI'm so friggin excited about hardware acceleration. lolMay 01 10:28
tedgNot sure a hackfest online is that useful, but I do think hoping for a Fall hackfest is reasonable. We'll have to see how viruses do over this summer.May 01 10:28
Mc@bryce everything is still under embargo for 3 more daysMay 01 10:29
brycec.rogers don't get too excited, that's a long road paved entirely with bugs ;-)May 01 10:29
bryceMc, okMay 01 10:29
c.rogersCute bugs.May 01 10:29
Mc(announcement of students is May 4th, 18h UTC)May 01 10:29
Mc"Project decisions are being finalized. Do not communicate decisions to students before they are announced by Google on the website and emails are sent on May 4, 2020."May 01 10:29
bryce*nod*May 01 10:29
c.rogers, see on https://chat.inkscape.org//file-upload/uX89pjjzP52bC3xbc/Vee_Doubleyou_Bug_300.gif (Vee_Doubleyou_Bug_300.gif) May 01 10:30
c.rogersHardware acellerated bug anyone?May 01 10:30
c.rogersvrooooooom. XDMay 01 10:30
bryceheheMay 01 10:30
bryceoh, I had a question on weblateMay 01 10:31
bryceI recall it was getting worked on, but kind of lost track of progress of where it's at currently, or if it's still under work?May 01 10:32
doctormo@ tedg  If we do an EU in person thing, I'd still need to join remotely. And I do want to take part in the discussions.May 01 10:32
MoiniAs far as I know it got stalled on bugs and workflow details.May 01 10:32
bryceokMay 01 10:33
MoiniAnd now it sounds as if we wouldn't have server resources.May 01 10:33
MoiniPatrick might remember more.May 01 10:33
tedgdoctormo, okay. I guess I wasn't saying it had to be EU either...May 01 10:33
doctormoIt kind of does, that's where all our active people are ;-)May 01 10:34
bryceI still have a node allocated for weblate but will delete it for now, if it gets worked on again I think we can tighten belts and fit it in, but no need to have a node allocated until thenMay 01 10:34
MoiniAh, so that was why you were asking.May 01 10:35
brycemc, I also wanted to ask if the Kiwi TCMS devel node is still needed?May 01 10:35
doctormotedg: of course a US AND EU joint super mega online extravganza would be fun too.May 01 10:35
bryceprkos, I also have one allocated to you for forums (devel-01.inkscape.org), is it ok if I free that one or do you need it still?May 01 10:36
michele[ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=XhS5t4ufg2QB2vW4Q) @ doctormo  Can we broaden that to the Americas?May 01 10:36
tedgIf it has "mega" and "extravaganza" in the name, how could it not be fun? ;-)May 01 10:36
doctormo@ michele  I think it can.May 01 10:36
prkosI forgot exactly where forum is hostedMay 01 10:36
brycethe reason I'd like to free any unused ones is so we have capacity to add other nodes, not because we're over limit currentlyMay 01 10:36
prkosand where forum old cache isMay 01 10:36
prkosbut if it's not being used then we don't need itMay 01 10:37
tedgAll for it being the Americas, but further North the earlier in Fall it needs to be :-)May 01 10:37
doctormo@ prkos  inkscape.org/forum is on OSUOSL. The old caches are all on alpha I think if memory serves.May 01 10:37
Mcbryce: dunno, it did not seem to cause a lot of enthusiasmMay 01 10:37
bryceprkos, my records have it as devel-01.inkscape.org, which I've just powered on if you want to log in and lookMay 01 10:37
McI still think it can be usefulMay 01 10:37
prkosunless you want to reserve it for paid development maybeMay 01 10:37
doctormohttps://alpha.inkscape.org/vectors/www.inkscapeforum.com/May 01 10:38
prkosyes I think we have alpha and OSUOSLMay 01 10:38
bryceyeah the forums _cache_ is on alpha, but devel-01 was for a new forum software, which I think we're not doingMay 01 10:38
doctormoAh yes.May 01 10:39
prkosyes I think soMay 01 10:40
brycealright, thanksMay 01 10:40
tedgInteresting it seems like a lot of OSS projects are merging their mailing lists an forums using Discourse.May 01 10:41
tedgGNOME has, Ubuntu basically has, etc.May 01 10:41
tedgI don't like it, but I'm old.May 01 10:41
c.rogersPS- if you folks want to join in some Linuxy conversations, I've started moving my London Linux Group hangouts too Jitsi. You are all welcome to join in.May 01 10:41
bryceyeah they're pushing discourse at canonicalMay 01 10:41
MoiniHeh, I don't like how hard it is to find something again on those forums... without structure.May 01 10:41
doctormotedg: We've basically moved to GitLab/RocketChatMay 01 10:41
brycehttps://gitlab.com/bryceharrington/post-discourseMay 01 10:42
irker341[inkscape] Thomas Holder pushed 1 new commit to master: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/compare/e2ead1f7...ba516bcdMay 01 10:42
prkos@ bryce  there are some backups in /var on devel-01 and nothing elseMay 01 10:43
bryceMoini yeah I don't like that either.  Formatting is super limited too, I miss mediawikiMay 01 10:43
bryceprkos great thanks for taking a lookMay 01 10:43
tedgYeah, I realize. I realize people are happy, but I'm a little worried we adopted "next-gen chat" too early. A lot of OSS folks are going to Matrix too.May 01 10:43
doctormoWhat would open source be if it wasn't a shanty town of Adobe housing.May 01 10:44
MoiniBtw. this chat uses a third-party service for sending emails.May 01 10:44
c.rogersI think we should have adopted this like ages ago.May 01 10:44
MoiniWith limited amount of emails.May 01 10:44
c.rogersThis is not just good, it's excellent.May 01 10:44
Mcat least matrix users can get to IRCMay 01 10:44
doctormoYeah we REALLY need to sort out our email situation. The number of people complaining they don't get emails from inkscape.org is a real burden.May 01 10:44
MoiniBut it is great for driving community involvement (the chat, not the email issues).May 01 10:45
tedgYes, I'm using IRC through Matrix now.May 01 10:45
doctormotedg: That says we're already on Matrix :-P by proxy proxyMay 01 10:45
c.rogers[ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=gyGmvjFiFc6nTskBP) @ inkchatbot  It's too much to set up vs this chat.May 01 10:45
tedgAnyway, I'm not saying that we need to change everything. Just watching the landscape.May 01 10:45
bryceyeahMay 01 10:46
brycefwiw in looking at mailing list archives it struck me how little use we make of them compared with years agoMay 01 10:46
tedgdoctormo, yes, but with bad formatting. Matrix sets up puppets to map user names.May 01 10:46
Mcbryce: many technical discussions happen on gitlab nowMay 01 10:47
Mcespecially on merge requestsMay 01 10:47
bryceMc, yeah that works so much better for thatMay 01 10:47
McI receive much, much, much, much more emails from gitlab than I ever did on inkscape-develMay 01 10:47
bryceand user discussions seem more likely to occur on social media these daysMay 01 10:47
doctormoI had to cut mine down, I don't get inbox messages for example.May 01 10:48
MoiniDid that yesterday, too :)May 01 10:48
doctormo(which means I'm really leaning on the new bugs team to move bugs around before I will even see them)May 01 10:48
c.rogers[ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=k9KwrRJzmB4LESSQF) @ inkchatbot  vs IRC? That's been the case for a LONG time now. lol IRC is a mysterious old-nerd/hacker thing to most regular users.May 01 10:48
brycealright, ten minutes left, any other board topics to discuss?May 01 10:48
Mc(total 13k emails from 7yr of inkscape-devel, 21k from 3yr of gitlab, 17k from 5 yr of launchpad)May 01 10:49
brycedoctormo, that's excellent - exactly what we hoped to getMay 01 10:49
doctormoI think that's it. We're not moving on the hiring front and I've been reading up on what python (the org) are doing there.May 01 10:49
tedgWe should talk to Vectors if they need tools to manage our social networking better. The pros have tools to manage inbox style social networking stuff.May 01 10:49
c.rogersOh, actually, I was going to ask something.May 01 10:49
doctormoSo we should talk about that at some point. But maybe when I've got a shore footing of how they're doing contracting.May 01 10:49
c.rogersI'd like to get a hardware HDMI recorder, which plugs in between a monitor and my laptop.May 01 10:50
tedgCool, GNOME hired a bunch of people this year. It would be interesting to talk to them more as well.May 01 10:50
c.rogersIt takes the burden off the CPU of making screencasts, and the results are much smoother.May 01 10:51
mgmax[ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=A69924QczCKkHCpLr) How is the 1.0 release timeline going, or where's the right point to raise this issue?May 01 10:51
c.rogersCan I get funding for that from the project? I'll use it to make future videos for the project, and it will be useful for livestreams, which I want to start doing as an extension of Inkscope.May 01 10:52
tedgI think that is reasonable, do you have a cost estimate and all that?May 01 10:52
c.rogersI already bought my own webcam and mic, so that's sorted.May 01 10:52
c.rogersNot yet. I'll do some research on the best one.May 01 10:53
c.rogersIf at least, in theory people are okay with it. :)May 01 10:53
tedgI don't speak for "people" -- only myself ;-)May 01 10:54
c.rogersYes, that's why I'm waiting for others to chime in too. ;)May 01 10:54
Timhttps://www.elgato.com/en/gaming/cam-link-4kMay 01 10:55
doctormo@ mgmax  The release blockers wasn't forgotten. It was processed. We got a lot done.May 01 10:55
bryceyeah do some research, I'm guessing it's in the $100-200 range but see what makes senseMay 01 10:55
tedgBut yes, I think it is something to build up our image as being more professional.May 01 10:55
tedgI'd love for us to have some curriated recommend videos or something like that.May 01 10:55
mgmax@ doctormo  it says "fixed" in the table but as far as I could check it isn't, the corresponding issues are also still open.May 01 10:56
c.rogersI have a whole series planned.May 01 10:56
bryceyeah videos are how things are learned these days, for sureMay 01 10:56
tedgDoes Blender get money off their videos on YouTube?May 01 10:56
tedgNot sure how that works.May 01 10:56
c.rogersI don't think so.May 01 10:56
doctormoI have a series of tutorials for extensions that involve video too. But maybe I'll get Chris to front them.May 01 10:56
c.rogersBlender doesn't need to though. They are very very well funded from elsewhere.May 01 10:57
c.rogersIncluding game companies.May 01 10:57
Timyou need 1000 subscribers to get monetized nowMay 01 10:57
NPJ2000That should take what, a minute? :)May 01 10:57
c.rogersIf we start posting regular videos from the project on our Facebook group, yea, that would take only a minute.May 01 10:58
brycealright, I smell breakfast cookin', if no one has anything else let's wrapMay 01 10:58
c.rogersYea, I need to get back to the video editing.May 01 10:59
brycethanks all!May 01 10:59
doctormoThanks bryce!May 01 10:59
bryce=== End of Meeting ===May 01 10:59
ryangorley:wave: May 01 10:59
MoiniI think Ryan was still wanting to get an estimate on the timing, Chris.May 01 10:59
Timenjoyed my first Board meeting...  bye allMay 01 10:59
c.rogers_gets out boombox and lowers disco ball for the after-meeting party._May 01 10:59
MoiniThanks, Bryce! Bye Tim, thanks for lurking :) May 01 11:00

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