Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2020-11-06

Mcmeeting time ?Nov 06 10:00
tedgYup.Nov 06 10:00
tedg================ BOARD MEETING START ================Nov 06 10:00
tedghttps://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php?title=Board_Meetings#AgendaNov 06 10:00
bryce*wave*Nov 06 10:00
inkchatbot<ScislaC> helloNov 06 10:00
tedgbryce: do you want to run the agenda or would you like me to?Nov 06 10:00
bryceeither way's fineNov 06 10:01
tedgYou got it.Nov 06 10:01
bryceok greatNov 06 10:01
bryce=== Apple Developer Membership Status ===Nov 06 10:01
inkchatbot<Tav> Hi!Nov 06 10:01
brycethe board's already on the mailing list thread so already knows the statusNov 06 10:02
brycebut to summarize for the public, there's an issue with licensing on the apple store, where GPLv3 code doesn't fit but GPLv2 doesNov 06 10:02
inkchatbot<doctormo> HelloNov 06 10:03
tedgOne question I had, but didn't put in the mailing list thread, do we need to remove Ghostscript from the other packages? Win32? Snap? AppImage?Nov 06 10:03
bryceso the discussions currently are around how to get Inkscape back to 100% GPLv2.  The SFC lawyers did a code review and found a few items that need investigationNov 06 10:03
ReneDHPersonally I think this is not a macOS-only problem but Windows as well.Nov 06 10:03
ReneDHAh, what tedg saidNov 06 10:04
inkchatbot<doctormo> It's not just the Apple Store, they've identified a problem with us having a GPLv3 dmg of any kind AFAIK.Nov 06 10:04
bryceReneDH, oh I didn't hear it was for Windows as well?Nov 06 10:04
Mc@Tav btw I think ghostscript makes our ps support, btw ?Nov 06 10:04
ReneDHNo, they are not looking at Windows right now. But I think they (and we!) should.Nov 06 10:04
tedgWell the question is about including system libraries as part of the package. The question is "What is system libraries?" kinda.Nov 06 10:04
ReneDHGPL violation with proprietary tech is not an Apple-only thing.Nov 06 10:05
tedgI think ghostscript is mostly used for EPS support. Which is important, but loosing traction. There is a lot of logos that are still EPS.Nov 06 10:05
ReneDHI'm not including any system libraries in the package. It's about linking to system libraries.Nov 06 10:05
inkchatbot<Tav> @ Mc  I'm not actually sure.Nov 06 10:05
McSFC actually already reviewed microsoft store rulesNov 06 10:06
Mcand told there were okNov 06 10:06
inkchatbot<Tav> If Ghostscript is only for converting EPS to PostScript we can probably write a converter ourselves.Nov 06 10:06
tedgAh, good they reviewed that.Nov 06 10:06
inkchatbot<Tav> If it's for reading in PostScript then  it's much more difficult.Nov 06 10:06
ReneDHIt's EPS and one format that I don't recall right now...Nov 06 10:06
brycewhat's the licensing on ghostscript?Nov 06 10:06
Mcone year agoNov 06 10:06
tedgAGPLv3Nov 06 10:06
bryceahNov 06 10:07
bryceit feels we may want to be able to track each of these issues, do we have tickets open for them?Nov 06 10:07
tedgEh, sounds like they're resolved? Which question is left?Nov 06 10:08
Mc(actually, iirc ms has an explicit rule that any term that they might have that contradicts an OSI-approved license does not apply to any program distributed on that OSI license)Nov 06 10:08
tedg(If the MS store is okay, I'm sure the OSS ones are)Nov 06 10:08
inkchatbot<doctormo> It would be odd for an AppImage to cause GPLv3 problems.Nov 06 10:08
brycetedg, for the apple store, the remaining items that have license issues, e.g. ghostscript, gsl, gimp widgets...Nov 06 10:08
Mc@doctormo maybe snap then :DNov 06 10:09
ReneDHOne more thing about Ghostscript: we're using their binaries to achieve the import. So this can be worked around on the user's end. (with a little help from us)Nov 06 10:09
inkchatbot<doctormo> Mc: _Thanos snap._Nov 06 10:09
bryceif there's items that need replaced then a bug to track that work would be helpful.  If the item is deemed ok as is, then the ticket would serve as documentation of our position.Nov 06 10:10
inkchatbot<c.rogers> someone was complaining on Facebook about the eps extension not working correctly.Nov 06 10:10
inkchatbot<doctormo> I believe it's not available in windows for a technical reason.Nov 06 10:10
tedgI think the other thing we should probably do is push the SFC to writeup a post on what they found. It makes a difference to more folks than us, and would give us something to link to.Nov 06 10:11
Mc@c.rogers should we say that eps format is now deprecated and is no more supported ? :pNov 06 10:11
brycetedg, maybe that and then create bugs after for specific items needing followed up?Nov 06 10:11
inkchatbot<c.rogers> I'm sure that's not what they want to hear. :)Nov 06 10:12
inkchatbot<c.rogers> I only see people using it when they have to use coreldraw to laser stuff.Nov 06 10:12
inkchatbot<Tav> eps is used a lot in technical drawings. It's the format for TeX drawing.Nov 06 10:12
tedgbryce: I think that might be good, give context to the bug. Otherwise we'll have to explain a lot.Nov 06 10:13
inkchatbot<doctormo> Mc: Check the horror faces from some users on twitter when I suggested eps might go away.Nov 06 10:13
inkchatbot<ScislaC> Honestly, for SCALE we still get probably 1/3 of the logos or ads in EPS too...Nov 06 10:14
bryceit's not that drastic though, is it doctormo?  it's just a question of if we can ship the code, not whether or not we can be compatible with it.  So if I understand correctly it'd just mean they'd have to install a second package?Nov 06 10:15
bryceif we're just calling an exe and not actually linking codeNov 06 10:15
ReneDHThat's my understanding of how it works ^^. It looks for certain ps2... binaries in PATH.Nov 06 10:16
inkchatbot<doctormo> extension eps_input uses `ps2pdf`, is this ghostscript?Nov 06 10:16
ReneDHYepNov 06 10:17
bryceok, I can take the action of asking SFC for a blog post or similar public statementNov 06 10:17
inkchatbot<doctormo> that's ps_input and eps_inputNov 06 10:17
bryceone other thing, they asked if KK could get involved to provide background on the gimp plugin licensing discussions, has anyone tried contacting him?Nov 06 10:17
inkchatbot<doctormo> I searches the archives for the history, but couldn't find the specific files in questionNov 06 10:18
bryceif not I can take that action as wellNov 06 10:18
inkchatbot<doctormo> Doesn't sound like it.Nov 06 10:18
brycealright, I'll rope him in.Nov 06 10:19
tedg🤠Nov 06 10:19
bryceany other comments on the licensing?  still much a WIP unfortunatelyNov 06 10:19
inkchatbot<Tav> So we don't actually link to ghostscript.Nov 06 10:19
ReneDHOnce the licensing is done, they hopefully get back to the reimbursement that started this whole thing ;-)Nov 06 10:20
bryceno kiddingNov 06 10:20
bryceReneDH, at least it's getting active attention from SFC and moving forwardNov 06 10:20
inkchatbot<doctormo> We don't link to it via code, but we are shipping it in the packages.Nov 06 10:20
bryce=== Developer meeting update (Mc / Tav) ===Nov 06 10:21
bryceMc and Tav, want to fill us in on status?Nov 06 10:22
Mcdevs meetings are still live discussions among active developers ^^Nov 06 10:22
inkchatbot<Tav> About 5 or 6 people show up. Quite useful.Nov 06 10:22
Mcanyone is encouraged to attend, if you feel like discussing code-related mattersNov 06 10:22
inkchatbot<doctormo> Release schedule set, everyone has a good sense of what others are focused on.Nov 06 10:23
tedgAnything exciting with the proposed 1.1 schedule? Do we need to do anything for that?Nov 06 10:23
Mcnot on the board sideNov 06 10:23
inkchatbot<Tav> https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php?title=Inkscape_1.1_Release_PlanningNov 06 10:23
inkchatbot<doctormo> _thinks we should create a release manager grant and pay someone to do a lot of the leg work for 1.1_Nov 06 10:23
inkchatbot<Tav> Mc has volunteered to handle the developer side... he can't be paid though.Nov 06 10:24
ReneDHWell I'm not donating to Wikipedia this year, so ...Nov 06 10:24
tedgI don't think that it is a bad idea, I'm just not sure how it works practically.Nov 06 10:25
tedgNot sure anyone would take on release management as a fixed price contract.Nov 06 10:25
inkchatbot<Tav> It would be good to have a Vector's volunteer to keep track of things like release note preparation.Nov 06 10:25
inkchatbot<Tav> Website prep, etc.Nov 06 10:26
tedgYes, has the release schedule been presented at a vector's meeting?Nov 06 10:26
inkchatbot<doctormo> Set a fixed amount of money we want to set aside, ask for advice from the SFC, contract the person we want to do the work.Nov 06 10:26
inkchatbot<c.rogers> I have gaps in my work schedule which I could be bribed to fill with release schedule info/ videos, etc.Nov 06 10:26
Mcvectors meeting are monthly (tomorrow ?)Nov 06 10:26
inkchatbot<Moini> Sure.Nov 06 10:26
inkchatbot<c.rogers> If you wan to increase hype for stuff.Nov 06 10:26
ReneDH(yes tomorrow)Nov 06 10:26
inkchatbot<Tav> I'm hoping the vector's team will give us some feedback on the release schedule tomorrow.Nov 06 10:27
inkchatbot<c.rogers> Is someone already doin git?Nov 06 10:27
tedgCool, there would be a good place to plan the otherside of the release prep.Nov 06 10:27
brycethanks, sorry I haven't attended them, Saturday morning has been family time for meNov 06 10:28
inkchatbot<Moini> Sorry, the app doesn't work properly for me right now.Nov 06 10:28
Mcrocketchat ?Nov 06 10:28
inkchatbot<Moini> Replies are not sent... yes. Nov 06 10:28
inkchatbot<c.rogers> DO you want a video for the next release?Nov 06 10:29
Mcbryce: where are we for shared access to that, btw ?Nov 06 10:29
inkchatbot<doctormo> @c.rogers I'm not sure we do.Nov 06 10:29
inkchatbot<c.rogers> OkayNov 06 10:29
inkchatbot<Moini> Ah, now it seems to work. Been saying that I've been planning to take care of vectors' organisation and release notes.Nov 06 10:29
bryceMc, to the rocketchat instance?  I can give you root access but was kind of waiting for recena to give his inputNov 06 10:30
tedgI think whether there's a video would be a good discussion for the vector's meeting.Nov 06 10:30
Mcno, to VM administration in generalNov 06 10:30
Mc(to the rocketchat instance would probably be good too)Nov 06 10:30
tedgThey're good for drumming up excitement, but perhaps we don't need as significant of one.Nov 06 10:30
inkchatbot<Moini> tedg, yes.Nov 06 10:30
tedgMoini, sounds awesome, thanks for taking that on.Nov 06 10:31
inkchatbot<doctormo> I'm doing a video every week, just point people to my OpenShot wizardry :-PNov 06 10:32
bryceMc, access to that effectively gives root access on all Inkscape services.  I'm not comfortable with that being a general access thing.Nov 06 10:32
inkchatbot<Tav> @ Moini , so we can put your name down as the Vector's release  coordinator on the release planning page?Nov 06 10:32
Mcwhat do you mean "general access" ?Nov 06 10:33
McI'm not asking to post the password on twitterNov 06 10:33
inkchatbot<doctormo> bryce: the machines need to be accessible to multiple people.Nov 06 10:34
inkchatbot<doctormo> A bus factor of 1 is very bad.Nov 06 10:35
brycethe account is registered through SFC, so if you want to run me over with your bus you can always recover it through them.Nov 06 10:35
inkchatbot<doctormo> bryce that's obstructionist. I'm not asking for anything unreasonable, just shared out access.Nov 06 10:36
inkchatbot<Moini> [ ](https://chat.inkscape.org/channel/team_devel?msg=9vfypoy5sZsWsPeuH) @ Tav  Yes (sorry for delay, booted up my computer instead)Nov 06 10:36
inkchatbot<Tav> @ Moini  Excellent!Nov 06 10:36
tedgI think we're probably done with the dev meeting, can we move on to vectors?Nov 06 10:37
brycealrightNov 06 10:38
bryce=== Vectors update (ryangorley) ===Nov 06 10:38
bryceryan are you present?Nov 06 10:38
inkchatbot<Moini> Ryan can't be here in the next time. He's okay, but there was a death in his family, AFAIU.Nov 06 10:39
bryceoh, sorry to hear.Nov 06 10:39
inkchatbot<doctormo> @ Tim  are you available for this meeting (last minute)Nov 06 10:39
bryceMoini, can you fill in or should we move on?Nov 06 10:39
inkchatbot<Moini> I haven't checked the agenda yet.Nov 06 10:40
bryceok, we can move onNov 06 10:40
bryce=== Board structure progress (ted) ===Nov 06 10:40
inkchatbot<Moini> Ah, Vectors update.Nov 06 10:40
tedgOh, Moini, do you want to update?Nov 06 10:41
brycetedg, you're upNov 06 10:41
inkchatbot<Moini> Nothing new, AFAIK, except for Ryan not being available.Nov 06 10:41
tedgOkay. So I've gotten some work on getting the charter digitized.Nov 06 10:41
tedgUnfortuantely I've just not gotten a lot of time for it.Nov 06 10:41
tedgI'm planning now on making it into a Git branch.Nov 06 10:41
tedgBecause it turns out, we made the resolutions very independent, so there's gonna be some judgement calls.Nov 06 10:42
inkchatbot<doctormo> For the drafting process?Nov 06 10:42
brycewould it make sense to narrow the focus so it won't need as much time?Nov 06 10:42
tedgSo I'd like everyone to see what I made (and correct mistakes I make) independently.Nov 06 10:42
tedgNaw, I think it's something we have to do. We've just let it atrophe.Nov 06 10:42
tedgBut now that I have working hot water heaters (literally plumber just left) I hope to have less going on and can work on it.Nov 06 10:43
tedgAnyway, so just an apology there.Nov 06 10:44
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> My house is also being renovated, @ tedg  - I can empathize.Nov 06 10:44
bryceok, on to next item thenNov 06 10:44
bryce=== Budget and Financial Report (ted) ===Nov 06 10:44
tedg@NPJ2000, when COVID is done, a beer an complain session 😉Nov 06 10:45
tedgSo, I thought that was all set and I was going to get a report this morning to share.Nov 06 10:45
tedgApparently I was wrong because I didn't get a report.Nov 06 10:45
inkchatbot<doctormo> No information from the SFC yet on fiscal situation?Nov 06 10:45
tedgI will follow up. I'm trying to just get a publicly sharable report (no personal informaiton in it)Nov 06 10:46
tedgBut we may have to build that ourselves.Nov 06 10:46
tedgWas hoping to find that out today, but clearly there is work to do there.Nov 06 10:46
inkchatbot<doctormo> Great, either way the data is accessible.Nov 06 10:46
tedgSo, I'll work out the bugs. Next month!Nov 06 10:46
brycethanks, and yeah hopefully future SFC data comes more readilyNov 06 10:47
bryce=== Adjust board meeting times? (doctormo) ===Nov 06 10:47
brycedoctomo?Nov 06 10:47
inkchatbot<doctormo> The meeting for the board needs to be fixed at a UTC time,Nov 06 10:47
tedgWhy does it need to be?Nov 06 10:48
Mcs/needs to/could/Nov 06 10:48
inkchatbot<doctormo> The is to make it consistant with other meetings and international calendaring.Nov 06 10:48
inkchatbot<doctormo> A situation where an event floats around can cause not just confusion, but collisions with other meetings.Nov 06 10:48
tedgInternational calendaring has worked before and without UTC for years 😉Nov 06 10:49
bryceif it is set to UTC time, that would move it 1 hour earlier my time?Nov 06 10:49
bryceif that's correct, I would not be able to attend Nov 06 10:49
inkchatbot<doctormo> It doesn't have to, it would just move it when the summer time hits.Nov 06 10:49
inkchatbot<doctormo> So adjusting the current time out by one hour today, means it's the same time until next summer time.Nov 06 10:49
inkchatbot<doctormo> then it pushes forward by an hour.Nov 06 10:50
tedgBut we can have the automatically if we anchor it to a timezone that does daylight savings we get that for free?Nov 06 10:50
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> Ah hoc scheduling with a glimpse toward the future could work, too?Nov 06 10:50
tedgLike the computers will do it for us.Nov 06 10:50
inkchatbot<doctormo> The other important point is I'd like to make sure that *whatever* the situation, the website calendar is considered canonical.Nov 06 10:51
brycewhat website calendar?Nov 06 10:52
inkchatbot<doctormo> This meeting clearly has copies, and that has a future danger of causing confusion (for any number of reasons) say if we need to adjust the time for bryce by a few hours one month.Nov 06 10:52
inkchatbot<doctormo> bryce: https://inkscape.org/cals/event/2/Nov 06 10:52
tedgI guess I kinda like the wiki page being canonical. Seems easier to work with.Nov 06 10:52
Mcdoes not have an ical linkNov 06 10:52
bryceno I don't think we make the website define the meeting time, we define the meeting time and the website can reflect thatNov 06 10:52
tedgAlso if we move to a different CMS we don't need it to support calendaring (which seems weird for a CMS)Nov 06 10:53
inkchatbot<doctormo> tedg: the website is not a CMSNov 06 10:53
tedgWhat do you consider it?Nov 06 10:53
inkchatbot<doctormo> A websiteNov 06 10:53
Mc^^Nov 06 10:54
tedgHmm, seems like it's gotten too custom then IMHO.Nov 06 10:54
Mcit has always been very, very customNov 06 10:54
tedgAnyway, that's off topic.Nov 06 10:55
bryceback to utc vs daylight savings, there are changes afoot in the US to move to a fixed time anywayNov 06 10:56
inkchatbot<Tav> And in Europe too...Nov 06 10:56
bryceso it may be better to just leave things as is until that's clarified.  The situation may end up solving itself.Nov 06 10:56
inkchatbot<doctormo> One day the world will be perfect ;-)Nov 06 10:56
tedgI think the meeting should be anchored to a timezone a board member lives in. Whether that be US or EU. I don't care which as much.Nov 06 10:56
brycefor example, my own state has already voted to end it, but is blocked by federal stuff.Nov 06 10:56
inkchatbot<doctormo> Right I'm setting it to c.rogers timezone, BST. It'll be this time again next time. Please subscribe to the ical for all events (not just a board meeting).Nov 06 10:57
brycetedg, I agree and also don't care whom it's linked to.  California may make more sense than OregonNov 06 10:57
inkchatbot<ScislaC> @ bryce  your state also legalized shrooms, so there's that. ;)Nov 06 10:58
bryceyes there's that....Nov 06 10:58
Mcand paris makes more sense than californiaNov 06 10:58
ReneDHSorry I'm scratching my head that you can't settle for UTCNov 06 10:58
tedgI'm not going to subscibe to the ical.Nov 06 10:58
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> Didn't they just decriminalize them at the state level?Nov 06 10:58
McReneDH: I tend to agree :) Nov 06 10:58
tedgUTC isn't real life. It's a computer thing. It's like saying we should count in binary.Nov 06 10:59
inkchatbot<doctormo> Subscription to all calendars here: https://inkscape.org/cals/Nov 06 10:59
tedgOr do the meetings in EsperantoNov 06 10:59
brycealright, we're at the hour.Nov 06 10:59
brycethe item can carry to next meeting.Nov 06 10:59
inkchatbot<Tav> We skipped at item: Community DevelopmentNov 06 10:59
bryceoh sorryNov 06 11:00
inkchatbot<doctormo> We always skip items, we're really bad at these meetings.Nov 06 11:00
bryce=== Community and developer development. (Tav) ===Nov 06 11:00
inkchatbot<NPJ2000> We all have various schedules - having a early morning / late night shift ought to be able to incorporate most of the work when it is an eight to eleven hour difference?Nov 06 11:00
brycemy bad, go ahead TavNov 06 11:00
inkchatbot<Tav> I put together a web page: https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php?title=Community_DevelopmentNov 06 11:00
bryceTav that looks greatNov 06 11:01
tedgCool, are we actively seeking people to put there? Some folks my not want to put themselves.Nov 06 11:01
inkchatbot<Tav> I'm thinking that we should allocate $1000 to the project: 25 books $40. (Probably that is very conservative.)Nov 06 11:01
tedgMake sure people feel seen.Nov 06 11:02
inkchatbot<Tav> We could add peoples names... I would be afraid of forgetting someone....Nov 06 11:02
tedgDoes that include shipping?Nov 06 11:02
inkchatbot<doctormo> @ Tav  sounds reasonable to me.Nov 06 11:02
bryceI expect SFC will also want to have someone validate that the people on the list do indeed meet the qualifications.  Can you serve that role? (and document in the page)Nov 06 11:02
inkchatbot<Tav> Sure...Nov 06 11:02
tedgSeems like with shipping some may be more than $40Nov 06 11:02
tedgI guess 20 @ $50 is probably okay too. Not sure we'll get to 20 either.Nov 06 11:03
inkchatbot<Tav> Depends upon where they are ordered. Amazon has free shipping most places (1 cent in France).Nov 06 11:03
bryceor just bump the estimate up to $2000.  We probably won't meet it and there's no particular reason to impose too strict a top limitNov 06 11:03
tedg+Nov 06 11:04
tedg+1Nov 06 11:04
bryceand yes I recall there were some shipping situations last year that were a bit more expensive than othersNov 06 11:04
inkchatbot<Tav> $2000 sounds good. The $1000 was just an estimated cost.Nov 06 11:04
inkchatbot<doctormo> time to send a vote I think. Get the budget set up.Nov 06 11:06
bryceTav, would you like me to go ahead and draft a vote on this?  I can probably do that today.Nov 06 11:06
inkchatbot<Tav> @ bryce  Yes, that sounds good.Nov 06 11:06
brycealrightNov 06 11:06
bryce=== Any Other Business ===Nov 06 11:06
bryceanything else before we close?Nov 06 11:07
tedgNope, thanks bryce !Nov 06 11:07
Mcnope, thanksNov 06 11:07
Mcsee you next month ?Nov 06 11:07
brycealright, thanks and have a good weekend everyone!Nov 06 11:07
inkchatbot<Tav> Is someone going to post the minutes?Nov 06 11:07
inkchatbot<ScislaC> Thanks everyoneNov 06 11:07
bryceI can take care of thatNov 06 11:07
inkchatbot<Tav> See y'all.Nov 06 11:08
bryce== End of Meeting ==Nov 06 11:08

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