Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2021-05-07

tedg==== BOARD MEETING ====
https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php?title=Board_Meetings#Agenda
17:00
Mc\17:00
tedgHowdy folks!17:00
Mc@doctormo 0 minute is a bit of short notice to do it :p17:01
TavHi all!17:01
tedgFirst up:  SFC Update
So apparently Pono decided to take a little bit of my thunder.
I had dinner with Karen a week or so ago.
17:01
doctormoHow did it go?17:02
tedgIt was good and was able to voice some of our frustrations, and hopefully most of those will be handled by the hiring of Pono.
He is focused on just communication with PLCs
17:02
doctormoThat does seem like a really positive move.17:02
tedg(and helping them out)
Basically they had folks move on to other jobs and they know it hurt their communication.
And they've now managed to backfill that position.
17:02
doctormoThat's good.17:03
tedgYup, so it was positive. I also got a dump of the financials for this meeting just to update them.
But we're going to work on more continuous reporting.
https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/2116960
17:03
Mccool!17:03
doctormoGreat, even a single update will be good17:04
tedgBasically, in the last year we've spent nothing. No surprise as most of our spending has been hackfests and travel to LGM.
Neither of those happened.
17:04
Mcwe have banking fees ?17:04
tedgI think they're the credit card/paypal fees17:04
TavWe need to find good uses for this money!17:05
tedgBut anyway, progress. Still lots of work to go on that relationship.17:05
Mchow much of it is from sponsors ?17:05
tedgYes, and that was karen's point as well.17:05
Mc(Also, we should have -6500$ from outreachy, right ?)17:05
doctormoWe got $20k from RedHat don't forget17:05
tedgHer point is that as non-profits you basically need to show people you're spending their money on good stuff, and they'll donate.17:06
doctormoIt's my position that I'm super unhappy we aren't spending our money. I think we could use this for some serious work, some of the boring work.17:06
tedgI imagine the Outreachy hasn't hit the balance sheet yet? Right? That's when the project starts?17:06
Mc(also, can we have a more granual view than yearly ? to see if donations are linked to releases ?17:06
doctormoShould we be hiring someone to do something like cairo GPU or similar?17:07
tedgI think that some of those things are on the table. We need to get together solid proposals and decide.
Also, things like I see traffic on GL runners not working on win32. Perhaps we just buy runners?
17:07
Mc?17:08
tedgApparently they're timing out.
(I don't know, just some a comment on the GL master bug)
17:08
doctormo@ede123 Can you quote on that17:09
RdHPatrick will be asking MacStadium for a zero-cost machine (their open source program). They do offer Windows. And as we already have macOS CI...17:09
Mclatest is https://ci.appveyor.com/project/inkscape/inkscape/builds/39046655 and seems ok17:09
tedgCool, we could do \17:09
doctormotedg: could we set up a seperate financial review meeting, would you be available?17:10
tedgWe shouldn't shy away from things that have cost. They'll take longer to setup, but let's make sure we have stuff.
I'm not sure what a \
17:10
doctormoBasically we would invite more people from the wider community, people who aren't on the board and we can talk about spending. What should be be spending money on.17:11
RdHThat's ok. I will be asking for an ARM64 Mac in a year or two.17:11
ede123Oh, I see my name mentioned... Indeed I've been discussing macstadium with RdH.
I'm not against \
17:11
tedgAnything that's synchronous is going to limit participation. If you want to do a community survey that might make sense. I'd suggest Vectors for that.17:12
ede123No harm in being free as in beer ;-)17:12
tedgede123: sure, free is always better :-)17:12
McYeah I feel that infrastructure-wise people are quite happy to provide us with anything17:12
TavWe need people to do the work of coming up with ways to spend money. We've talked a lot about spending money on development in the past but it has never gone anywhere.17:13
TavI'm not sure this board is up to the task.17:13
doctormotedg: OK, I can do a survey. What would you ask?17:13
tedg@Tav, I'm not sure the board should be in charge of coming up with proposals, it is more about approving them. But, yes, it is a lot of work to put together a proposal with costs, deliverables, etc.17:14
ede123A Windows runner that I could configure for GitLab would indeed be nice and likely is the way forward. Personally I don't really care where it \17:14
doctormoThat's fair actually. I agree the board shouldn't be generator of ideas. I like the idea of having it community driven.17:14
tedg@doctormo, what questions do you have? :-)
Though, it might be interesting to do a more generic \
17:15
TavMoney to pay people to do releases, to do code reviews, and the less flashy code clean-up.17:15
doctormoa) \17:16
tedgThe hard part is always the measurability and accountability and pricing.17:16
Mcfinishing/maintaining a gpu vector rendering library :p17:16
tedgFor instance, getting all the invoicing and everything.17:17
doctormotedg: I think accountability should fall somewhat on existing and historical reputation too. Too much overhead and the process of contracting peopel tod o work will stall out on self referencing checking.17:17
TavNvidia showed me several years ago the entire New York Times being rendered in real-time as vector graphics on a tablet. It was quite impressive.17:18
tedgI'm not an expert on surveys, but I'll note there are a bunch of assumptions in your questions 😃
We have the overhead as a public organization.
17:18
doctormoWe don't have the head to do the best over ;-)17:19
tedgI'd agree, which would make me look towards consulting companies that could provide project management as well.17:20
doctormoBut we can be fairly upfront: this is the project, it's not too large, this is the achivable, please report weekly at the developer meeting.17:20
doctormoJob done.17:20
doctormoOutside wouldn't be too bad, so long as their Free Software friendly of course.17:20
tedgSure, and at least for GL, Collabora has a bunch of expertise there.
But, that's for proposals. We could bike shed forever here on that.
I'm also curious if we couldn't get folks like the GNOME Foundation to pay part of core library improvements.
17:21
Mcif we rely on pathfinder, servo is part of the linux foundation now, too17:23
ScislaCI'd have to think there's some overlap of interest there tedg.17:23
doctormoA project to upstream some of our money to Gtk or etc wouldn't be a waste. with specific aims.17:24
Mcgnome is sort of investing into starting to maintaini cairo17:24
doctormoBut this is all speculation, asking the community is the right start point.17:24
Mcmaintaining*17:24
tedgYeah, so I think we can bat around proposals anytime, it doesn't need to be part of this meeting, so I'm gonna move on. Let some interested folks work on pulling things together.17:24
Mcbut cairo is not really gpu-friendly by design17:25
tedgNext up: Student programs. @Tav17:25
Mc(but yeah, \17:25
tedg(I think a GTK iOS backend, but I told people like me to stop talking 😃 )17:26
TavWe've gotten slots for students... need to allocate, etc. Can't say anything more at the moment.17:26
McWe are part of GSOC, we will have a mentor discussion tomorrow to allocate mentors to projects/students17:26
tedgCool. Did we gan an Outreachy student too?
get
17:26
doctormoYes, I'm the mentor and the details are private until the public announcement.17:27
Mcnot decided yet, @doctormo will decide in the next week probably as they applied to his project17:27
tedgAh, cool. Sounds good. So many secrets ;-)17:27
doctormoNot secret, just private :-P17:27
tedgNo board issues though.
So Developer update. Mc ?
17:27
doctormoDoesn't look like we need more money.17:28
Mcwell, the gsoc students will be announced on may 17th
dev meeting in 30 minutes :D 1.1beta has been going quite well with lots of bugfixes, and 1.1-rc is in a good shape afaik
so we still target a 1.1 release in ~2 weeks
17:28
tedgGreat. And I think the Vectors meeting was last week? They're up-to-date there?17:30
Mcyes, they decided on the release date :)17:30
tedgHaha, great!17:30
doctormoLooking good!17:31
tedgThat segways nicely into the Vectors report. @ryangorley17:31
Mc(@doctormo can tell more maybe, I'm not backlogging #team_vectors throughly)
( or ryan if he's around^^ )
17:31
tedgHmm, seems he's not.
We can table that to the end and see if he makes it.
Next up: Infrastructure @doctormo
17:33
doctormoMc has become more available, but I haven't asked him to set up our NextCloud instance.17:34
Mcah, right17:34
doctormoMc: Can you set up a NextCloud instance for us?17:34
doctormo:white_check_mark:17:34
Mciirc we had a space issue on alpha
need to check my logs
17:34
doctormoThe other item is password manager which @ryangorley needs to confirm it's what we want.17:35
doctormoAnd you've talked about windows CI builder.17:35
tedgDo we have a solution for bus factor here? No issue with Mc of course, but how are we storing the configurations?17:35
RdHMc: I wanted to help with alpha, but haven't gotten around to that yet17:35
RdH(that's what your logs will likely show you)17:35
Mc@RdH yep, I recall you were involved17:36
tedgIs there a regular meeting for people involved with infrastructure?17:37
doctormoNo regular meeting, we tie as an item at each of the other meetings.17:37
doctormoDeveloper, board, vectors17:37
doctormoSo far so good.17:38
tedg(perhaps quarterly)17:38
doctormoCan do, for review of sysadmin jobs?17:38
tedgYeah, more worried about making sure we've got common tools, etc.
Like I'm a believer that once someone has logged in with a shell the machine is broken.
Needs to have automatic setup, reconfig, etc.
17:38
McAnd I find that weird ^^17:40
tedgSo the team should agree. I don't need to agree with the team :-)17:40
McAs we probably won't need to autoconfigure 200 nextcloud servers, having one working should probably be fine :)17:40
tedgOkay. Just seems like we have tasks and request to track there. If what's working is working I won't belabor the point.17:42
Mcanyway I afree we need to be on the same page, and that meeting can be the way to go17:42
doctormoQuarterly review meeting set up: https://inkscape.org/cals/event/22/17:42
tedgNext up I have: Where should we meet? @c.rogers
I went ahead and made #inkscape-board on Freenode to grab the namespace.
Is that what we want?
17:43
doctormoYes17:44
tedgAny objections?17:44
doctormo@c.rogers Stop reading the backlog and say yes or no ;-)17:45
Mcwhy separate from inkscape-devel ?17:45
c.rogersHaha17:45
c.rogersSorry.17:45
doctormoMc: because board discussions are a bit heated and need a space.17:45
tedgMc: there was some concern about traffic17:45
doctormo@jabiertxof Is it easy to set up the rocket chat bridge for #board_room ?17:46
tedgMc: But I'm more sold on the idea that folks don't need to keep up with devel to participate in the board. Like we shouldn't expect board members to be devs.17:46
c.rogersYea, #inkscape-board is okay, as long as we can somehow tell people it's for infrastructure discussions too.17:46
doctormo@c.rogers I added the infrastructure meeting to the board team on the website, so I already consider it sort of that type of thing.17:46
c.rogers#board-room was geed because it kind of implies other people can be there,17:46
TavI can see one advantage of moving meetings, it will be easier to look at past meetings using Rocket Chat.17:47
Mctedg: ah that's a more compelling argument17:47
Tav... since we are currently bad at posting minutes.17:47
c.rogersYes, and is maybe more inviting than team-devel17:47
doctormo@c.rogers The name in rocket chat doesn't have to be the same... because rocket chat is just for inkscape.17:47
tedgYeah, a personal goal is to write better minutes. I think that a chat log really isn't adequate.17:48
Mcyou can call it #secret_room17:48
c.rogersYea, I'm talking about in rocketchat.17:48
doctormoI wish I had a few writers who's entire job was digestion of all chat into a weekly email :-D17:48
doctormoblog post and social media announcement ;-)17:48
tedgWould they have a chat room to chat about how to do that?17:48
doctormohaha17:48
c.rogersWell making a room for that discussion would make it way easier to sort through.17:48
doctormo@c.rogers Can you make the rocket chat room for us and we'll get the birdge installed?17:49
tedgCool, so I think we're happy with that. I'll update the wiki and such to make sure people know.
@doctormo, I'm assuming you'll update the calendar on the website ;-)
17:49
c.rogersokay vote on the name A. #board_room     B. #inkscape_board17:50
c.rogersA17:50
c.rogersB17:50
TavB17:50
tedgB17:50
ryangorleyOops, sorry I lost track of time~17:50
c.rogersAh, hehe17:51
tedg@ryangorley, cool, let's get a couple more votes and then you can go.17:51
doctormotedg: sure will ;-)17:51
McB17:52
c.rogersOkay, B it is by simple majority17:52
doctormoI love that chris set up a thumbsup vote on rocket chat that Mc, and tedg will have no idea is there.17:52
c.rogershaha17:52
tedgAh, didn't realize. It just comes across as letters.17:52
c.rogersI'll remeber that for next time.17:53
tedgAnyway, @ryangorley, you're up!17:53
c.rogerseveryone voted B17:53
ryangorleyCool17:53
tedgTell us about Vectors!17:53
ryangorleyWe've got things lined up to promote the 1.1 release. We're still planning on an evening of the 24th, morning 25th depending on timezone to maximize visibility in press inboxes17:54
ryangorleyWe're wondering what we need to do to get a press@inkscape.org email inbox that we can send those from.17:55
ryangorleyPersonal emails don't carry as much weight. Email accounts are cheap. Not sure if this is possible but it would be very nice.17:55
tedgDo we have SMTP setup? Like in a way that we could send messages from our server? Worried it'll end up in spam boxes otherwise.17:56
Mcsome dns config, and some email config on a vm
I think we have a smtp server on lists.inkscape.org
17:56
tedgCould we do \17:56
doctormoFor SMTP addresses we sent a support ticket to OSUOSL17:57
doctormoLet me know and I can sent the ticket in.17:57
ryangorleyWhy do we have to support our own email server. It's like $5/mo. to let someone else do that, right?17:57
Mc?17:57
tedg@doctormo do you think that's possible in two weeks?17:57
doctormoCan but try.17:57
doctormoI can add an urgent, just make sure I know where the emails are being redirected to.17:57
c.rogers#inkscape_board  is up!17:57
c.rogersThe room is currently public. Let me know if you want to change that.17:58
tedgYeah, it seems like mail addresses wouldn't conflict with lists, right?
@c.rogers, no public is good. Thanks!
17:58
Mcshould not conflict17:58
c.rogersCool.17:58
Mc(different domains anyway)17:58
tedgSo, I don't want to suggest this, but GApps for domains would get email? Something like that FOSS?17:59
ryangorleyWe can handle the emails as we have in the past, but it seemed like a question to bring up now.17:59
Mciirc the list of ml is hard-listed in procmail so it might be possible to handle both on the same server17:59
doctormoDoes NextCloud have email yet?17:59
Mcyes but only the client :p17:59
ryangorleyNo17:59
tedgThey have a mail client17:59
ryangorley^^17:59
ryangorleyKolab is a FOSS friendly company that does email. There are others like Fastmail that are good. Just not sure we need to create more infrastructure overhead to maintain a couple project email addresses.18:00
doctormoOK, well let me know via email when you get the details worked out and I'll get it sent as an urgent ticket.18:00
tedghttps://protonmail.com/business/pricing
So
I think someone with some sort of hosting already setup makes sense.
18:00
doctormo(If we do this, it might be good for webmaster@ too, if they sell a bulk package of 5)18:01
doctormoI know we have webmaster list but it was not working at all.18:01
tedgcontact has been mostly spam...18:01
ryangorleyAnother reason to not host our own email, honestly.18:02
ryangorleyWe can continue this conversation outside the meeting. I don't want to derail things.18:03
tedgYes, makes sense. But yeah, I think a provider for mail would be good.
We may be tight on timing though.
18:03
ryangorleyThat's fine. At worst we do what we have in the past, which has worked okay.18:04
ryangorleyJust as a gee-whiz item, we'll have a couple people from the project presenting at LGM this year (virtually)18:04
tedgGreat! 🎉
Are we going to promote those talks?
18:04
Mcwe should promote LGM in general too :)
(but yeah, Inkscape talks in particular)
18:05
ryangorleyYeah, I'm sure we will promote both.18:06
doctormotedg: Do we have voting a new board member on the agenda?18:06
doctormoIt's still in motion right?18:06
tedgYes, we wanted to get the contributor thing all fixed up first. I got an action item with @ryangorley from Vectors on that.18:07
Mcwe should first have an answer from SFC about the interprettion of the charter ?18:07
ryangorleyLast thing is just to let the board know that we're going to invite comment on @tedg article on the board mailing list. I'm not sure who accepts people to that list, but that volume may go up. I signed up for the list, but I don't think the \18:07
ryangorleyI guess this is related to the last three comments...18:07
tedgMc: I talked with Karen a bit about that. And she was very open to us proving the text we want. \18:08
Mcshe's the best :)18:08
tedgThey'll want to review, etc. But liked the idea.18:08
doctormoGreat. Do we have a draft or is this a document for our NextCloud :-D18:09
tedgI'm planning on discussing that with pono, I don't think he'll have answers right away, but he can get them faster.18:09
c.rogersKaren does great voiceovers.18:09
Mc@ryangorley I'm not sure I understand: you want to be able to post on the board discussion mailing list ?18:09
tedgMy plan was to see the feedback we got on the original \18:09
ryangorley^^ The feedback from people would be on the board mailing list.18:10
tedgWhich, I didn't think we required approval to be on that list?18:10
jabiertxofthere is plan to add more irc-bridges in the future? I can work for one more or work for undefined numbers. I think one I can setup this weekend (hope)18:10
tedg(just standard anti-spam approval)18:10
irker825[inkscape] Thomas Holder pushed  new commit to master: https://gitlab.com/inkscape/inkscape/-/compare/75564469...90ba2a5b18:10
McI thought there were only board memebers on that list
-e
18:10
tedgIt's public. So I'm not sure the benefit of that. There are only board members on the SFC list which is private.18:11
Mcas in \18:11
tedgI guess I'm not worried about that, I don't think many people will override the list with discussion. But I'm happy to suggest somewhere else if you think that's valuable.
Generally board things attract little interest.
18:12
doctormoMc: the sfc list is private but the lists.inkscape.org is public, we have two18:13
McI know18:14
jabiertxof@doctormo dont see dev meeting on list: https://inkscape.org/*developer/calendar/18:14
Mcthat's because the time is past :P18:14
tedgAh, we're going over. I lost track of time.
Sorry about that.
18:14
doctormoKeep moving forwards!18:14
doctormoWe're in https://digimedia1.r2.enst.fr/b/mar-9wm-vj2 hanging out waiting for the developer meeting to start :-D18:15
jabiertxofthere is one on the past, anyway18:15
ryangorleyThis is all of the Vectors items we need to discuss. Thanks for the time!18:15
tedgLet's close this out and I'll work with @ryangorley and Mc to figure out the list issue.18:15
Mcdo we have remaining agenda items ?18:15
tedgSorry everyone.
Nope
18:15
Mcnp & thanks :)18:16
tedgThanks everyone!
===== END BOARD MEETING ====
18:16

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