Inkscape Board Meeting Transcript for Friday, 2021-06-04

tedOkay, so let's kick things off.
===== BOARD MEETING =====
https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php?title=Board_Meetings#Agenda
First
up I've SFC items update.
17:01
c.rogerso/17:02
tedI got a financial update, we didn't spend any money this month. I forgot to put the summary in a pastebin.
I'll do that as soon as someone else is talking.
SFC is looking into the Paypal thing from Asia. Basically it is an issue with it being a non-profit Paypal account, and they have default restrictions.
So the SFC is looking into other ways to take those donations for all projects, us included.
17:02
ScislaCinteresting17:03
tedThe other issue I'm tracking there is some standard bank number instructions for non-Paypal users.
Mostly encouraging these things to be on the base SFC site for all projects, then we can copy-paste what we need.
I don't have any other SFC things on my list.
@Tav, mentoring programs update is on my list next
17:04
TavHi all.17:05
TavWe've got six GSoC projects. Looks like a good summer! Some of the students have already made some good progress.17:06
karenfwiw we don't make the bank information available on our website due to US banking issues and preventing fraud which eats up our time
we are super responsive when people ask for it though! dimesio is awesome :)
17:06
tedkaren: yeah, I was talking with pono about some standardized instructions there and a form. As there was concern that non-English speakers would have a hard time asking.17:07
c.rogersHey, great to see SFC reps at our board meeting. Hope this is a regular thing. :)17:07
Tav@doctormo can report on Outreachy.17:07
ted@Tav, cool, do we have status meetings setup?17:07
Tav+1 on the SFC being here!17:07
karen:)
not sure we can make it all the time, but we'll try to come as often as we can if you want us to :D
17:07
tedI guess I should mention, I know most folks probably know karen , but  pono is new and the PLC contact for SFC.17:08
TavMc is arranging for our first GSoC group video chat.17:08
c.rogersNice.17:08
c.rogersThanks @Mc17:08
ponoFeel free to reach out pono@sfconservancy.org if you have any questions17:08
karenwe should also offer - if you'd like to use our BBB, we can offer that for meetings like this17:08
TavShould define PLC.17:08
tedAh, yeah. So we've always called it the \17:09
karenright! it's less confusing that way overall17:11
tedNext up, developer group update. Mc17:11
TavI think Mc said he might be in a car and might have trouble connecting.17:12
c.rogersGot a message from him earlier saying there is no board meeting?17:12
c.rogersMaybe someone told him it wasn't happening?17:12
tedAh, yeah, @Tav, can you fill in?17:12
TavOur every eight day developer meetings continue to be reasonably well attended.17:12
tedCool, any 1.1 issues or just moving on to 1.2?17:13
TavI think commit activity might be a bit lower than normal, not unexpected due to the huge push to get 1.1 out.17:13
tedYeah, I know it has been said in other places, but just to repeat here, 1.1 is a really great release. Thanks to all who worked on it!17:14
TavI haven't been tracking 1.1 issues.17:14
c.rogersI've found 1.1 to be stable enough for production work on Linux. Keep getting sporadic reports of people having issues on various other platforms, but no more than any other release.17:14
c.rogersSo yea, I echo Ted's sentiment. :)17:15
tedMakes sense, so no immediate 1.1.1, but I'm sure over time.17:15
c.rogersWe got glowing praise from Linux Action News for the release as well.17:15
pono\\o/17:16
tedNice. I guess that segways into vectors, but do we track media attention somewhere?17:16
c.rogersEr sorry, \17:16
ryangorleyryangorley17:16
tedPerhaps I should ping @ryangorley 😃17:16
c.rogersLAN might have said something. I've heard at least two podcasts say great things about  it.17:17
karentopic that can be picked up anytime off meeting: do you all want to put an item about the release on conservancy's blog?17:17
tedThat's probably better to discuss in the Vectors meeting, but I can mention that on their agenda.17:18
karen:)17:18
c.rogershttps://youtu.be/-rzPtF9JYto?t=133217:19
c.rogersheh, maybe I should have adjusted the timestamp to 1337 ;)17:19
tedhttps://gitlab.com/inkscape/vectors/general/-/issues/219#note_593300466
Hehe
, that would be fun.
Is Ryan in this room? Just curious if he made it over and my ping worked.
Otherwise can someone else give a Vectors update?
17:20
c.rogersI haven't had time to attend the last few meetings unfortunately.17:21
tedFinancial overview snippet: https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/213086417:22
c.rogersHaha, makes it looks like we have over 2 mill in the account.17:23
c.rogersI so wish that were the case.17:24
karenright? it is a substantial amount though.17:24
ryangorleySorry, my morning went off the rails... I'm here now17:24
karen(I dont' see how it makes it look like over 4m though)
er 2m not 4m :)
17:24
tedHehe, we should buy bitcoin. I'm sure we'd have $2m one day and none the next. 😉17:25
karen:D17:25
tedAh, cool. @ryangorley how did the release look on your end?17:25
c.rogersThe auto-generated link on rocketchat says $213086417:25
c.rogersYou may not see it on IRC17:25
tedThe snippet number17:26
karenwow the this week in linux converage is awesome
yeah the snippet number doesn't come up on IRC
17:26
c.rogers@karen See, told you the FOSS podcasts are worth listening too. ;)17:26
karenkaren17:26
ponore; hosting costs, I know there used to be hosting done at the OSUOSL, are there other donated infrastructure costs not being recorded in the budget?17:26
c.rogersOh, sorry, wrong karen haha17:26
ryangorley@ted I'd say the promotion side of things went more smoothly than any prior release. I worry a little about the workload on those producing the release notes, article, and video.17:27
tedted17:27
ryangorleyWe have our meeting tomorrow and I'm going to try to take the temperature on that stuff.17:27
tedpono: We don't have many. We have VM credits donated for most of it. And then CDN service as well.17:27
ryangorleyWe at least had a few weeks with a firm release, which really helped and we were grateful for.17:28
ryangorley*release date17:28
tedpono: I think by hearing the wind we may need to grab some CI services for Windows/Mac, but we'll see.17:28
c.rogersI think the video didn't get as much traction as last time because it appeared at the bottom of our articles.17:28
ted@ryangorley, great, glad that worked. We should work to ensure it happens regularly.17:29
c.rogersSo next time, I recommend placing it somewhere near the top. ;)17:29
ponoted: cool, maybe a conversation for another time17:29
tedHeh, I think it may have also just been a \17:30
c.rogersStill, something worth fixing. Especially, if going through a month worth of trouble to make said video content.17:31
tedI forgot to look for that.
Sorry, I didn't mean to say it wasn't worthwhile, just that may show why the numbers were lower as well.
17:31
ryangorley@ted I kind of dropped the ball on the email issue, but I'll pick that up again.17:32
c.rogersConsistency of releases tends to build audience.17:32
tedThat is very true.17:33
c.rogersSo if our numbers are down I would not write that off to in being not as big of a release. That's not really how the youtube algorithm works.17:33
tedAlso, did we need to announce moving from Freenode to Libera for IRC? I kinda feel like everyone who needs to know, knows. But...17:33
ryangorley@c.rogers I think we can do better getting promoting the video on social as well.17:34
c.rogers@ryangorley cool.17:34
tedK, that seems like vectors stuff.17:35
ryangorleyYes, thank you17:35
ted@doctormo, infrastructure update?
(not sure if he was able to make it)
K, last up I have a general item to talk about the meeting itself.
We'd chatted a bit about minutes and such, and there seemed to be generally confusion.
What I think wasn't perhaps clear is that this is a status and update meeting, not a decision making meeting.
Our charter says all votes need to be done on the mailing list.
After talking a bit about it, it was clear to me, but apparently not others and that was causing a lot of the confusion.
17:35
c.rogersI vote for all votes to be handled in the mailing list. Anyone with me? +117:38
tedSo I added a section to the wiki: https://wiki.inkscape.org/wiki/index.php?title=Board_Meetings#What_Happens17:39
karen\u0001ACTION chuckles\u000117:39
tedAnd I talked to Martin about his concerns with the minutes, and he believes a transcript in the wiki is enough for a status meeting, which this is.
So that is my intention to do.
Happy to hear other people's ideas on it, but I think that what the meeting actually could do was a large part of the confusion.
17:39
c.rogersCould be.17:40
tedHopfully updating the Wiki (and telling people here) will help.17:40
c.rogersYea. I personally find it great to be able to access the actual meeting stuff there.17:40
c.rogersMakes it easy to go back and see what was said.17:41
tedI need to figure out how to make it look nicer, but that's a clean up issue.17:41
c.rogersEsp for people on IRC who are not connected all the time.17:41
tedI also don't want things on alpha, which seems like it is more of a playground.17:41
c.rogersyep, full of dancing bugs. ;)17:41
c.rogersI... may have filled it with dancing bugs. Sorry.17:42
tedHeh, yeah. And we don't want to have it need to work either.17:42
c.rogershttps://alpha.inkscape.org/bug-migration/fieldguide.html17:42
tedCool, so that's the meeting agenda.
Anything else before I put the end of meeting marker?
17:43
TavWhat is the status of replacing Bryce?17:43
c.rogersI also did a little preliminary research on Spreadshirt alternatives.17:43
c.rogersAre we still interested in moving Inkscape Merch?17:44
c.rogersOr are we reasonably happy with our pile of money at the minute?17:44
ted@Tav, so I was going to put up the post about chaging the contributor stuff this weekend. I talked with @ryangorley about it and even though we were ready, right around the release seemed like a bad time.17:44
ponoc.rogers Let me know what you find, I've been looking at different online merchants but am pretty green to the market17:44
ted@Tav, then we'll draft the charter change and run an election.
@c.rogers, I think so. From spreadshirt we made something like $30 this year. So the only way to go is up!
17:44
karenoh are folks unhappy with spreadshirt?17:45
c.rogers@pono heh, was going to ask you if SFC had any preferred vendors. I suppose that means \17:45
TavWhat is the plan for coming up with a plan to spend our donations?17:45
Mchi all !17:45
karenspreadshirt is at the moment our preferred vendor :D17:45
c.rogersAH, my work here is done. :P17:46
ponohaha, sounds like we figured it out :)17:46
tedHowdy Mc !17:46
Mc(still in a car, still trouble connecting, but in a 4G zone)17:46
c.rogersI just wish their platform weren't hot garbage. lol17:46
karenTav: that is the main reason I was sure to join this meeting. I just want to make sure you all have the support you need to figure out a plan to spend the money well!17:46
ted@Tav, so we wanted to put together a budget, my understanding is that the developer folks are putting together a budget as is Vectors.17:47
c.rogers@pono if you can find us some better vendor, I'd be all for it. The issue with spreadshirt is lack of control over the auto-generation of products.17:47
ryangorleyIt will be a discussing item tomorrow17:47
ryangorleyfor Vectors17:47
karenwe're open to other platforms, to be clear. We'd want to be cognicant of ethical implications related to the merch, usability, etc.17:47
Mc@transcripts they were versioned in gitlab which is a reasonably stable place, then uploaded to alpha17:47
ponoc.rogers formatting or images and such?17:47
tedMc: ah, I see. Could we link to Gitlab?
@c.rogers, I got a t-shirt from Topatoco the other day and it was great. I was noting they do a lot of webcomics, which may releate to our market: https://topatoco.com/
17:48
c.rogers@pono What spreadshirt does is it takes one design and for each item you check, be it a mug, a shirt etc, makes 20 or 30 variations. We'd like to have more than one design, and the current way it works makes it impossible to do that effectively. It's a hot mess.17:49
Tavkaren, I'm a bit worried that we've been trying to spend our money for some years now and have not even been close to being successful other than the hackfests. I don't think iit is ethical to ask for donations and not to use them.17:49
tedThough, besides being a happy customer I don't know more.17:49
c.rogersYes, that was something I was going to bring up too: Can we use some of the funds to fund development of Inkscape. If so, what are the requirements?17:50
tedWe can, we just need to be able to come up with achievable goals and get bids on the work, etc.17:51
c.rogersI think most users who donate expect that the funds will go to help develop Inkscape, and currently none of it does.17:51
ponoc.rogers gotcha, I'll take a look at it to see what you mean and get back to you17:51
tedWe can't just throw $1000 at the wall and hope it sticks.17:51
c.rogersYea, we'd need someone with a track record of doing good work. Someone in the project.17:51
TavI agree with the ted, but we need a realistic plan to move forward.17:51
tedThe hardest part there is coming up with a proposal that is well defined, measuring it so that you can release payment (perhaps in phases), etc.17:52
karenYes, I think undertaking a full effort to use the funds to improve Inkscape is due. And as Ted says, it has to be thought through fully to make sure it's fair, that there are no conflicts of interest and that it will in fact lead to a long term improvement in the community without bad feeling17:52
tedNot sure they need to be in the project specifically. For instance, there are several OSS contracting firms that could probably do it.17:52
c.rogerskaren, can you send us a list of the requirements from the SFC's side?17:52
karensome of our projects that have been successful in that area was for annoying work that no one really wants to do as a volunteer
@c.rogers: the requirements really are the ones I just listed, but getting the details right is a really important
17:53
c.rogersWe're gearing up to do a kickstarter for some user requested features that Martin wants to dedicate time to, but can't because it's a major time sink, and he has a family and rent to pay.17:54
c.rogersIt would be nice if we didn't have to do that.17:54
tedThe hardest part is being fair to the project as well as the person contracting. You want everythign that can be to be agreed up front.17:54
c.rogersYes, naturally.17:54
c.rogersSo a scope of the work, and quote for the price of it.17:54
karen+1 to ted, our main concerns are about fairness, avoiding a conflict of interest and maintaining transparency17:55
c.rogersand a timeline for completion.17:55
karenanyone who is interested in applying for the work should not really be involved in scoping it out17:55
tedYes, and I think they need to be able to invoice the SFC, right?17:55
karen(other than to discuss it with the people who are not conflicted)
right ted, we've got good mechanisms for invoicing
we employ 20+ contractors for our member projects in a typical year
not including the 100+ outreachy interns that is
17:55
c.rogersIf both of you think it would not be unfair to hire Martin for a specific feature that users are asking for, we can get you all the requirements.17:56
adam.belishow can we socpe it without experts whon are only one who knows how it should be done ?17:56
karenour conflict of interest policy is here: https://sfconservancy.org/projects/policies/conflict-of-interest-policy.html
there
's a section entitled \
17:57
c.rogersokay, but according to our very own cyborg lawyer, would it be okay to pay martin to do this work?17:58
ted@adam.belis, I think it isn't about not talking to them, it is more about ensuring that we're not in a situation where someone is paying themselves. \17:58
karen(am I remembering correctly that Martin is on the PLC?)17:58
adam.belisyes if he is not a person writhing it down :D17:58
c.rogersYes, that's correct.17:58
karenyeah, what I'm saying is we have to be careful about hiring PLC members, but it's possible and we even have a procedure spelled out for it17:59
adam.belisthis is lite head 21 situation17:59
TavI've got to take off for a few minutes...17:59
c.rogersWell \17:59
c.rogersSingle-serving sort of do this for money.17:59
tedThey're the same in this case. \18:00
c.rogerswith a very well defined scope.18:00
c.rogersOkay.18:00
tedI would say that hiring someone on the project also has issues with what happens if the contract goes sideways. Many more political consequences as well.18:00
karenyes, I was sloppy with my use of \18:00
c.rogersI'm concerned that there is resistance to trying things based on \18:01
karenthe other key part is that no one who is going to be potentially paid by Conservancy for this work should be voting on it18:01
c.rogersI think we have more to lose by doing nothing.18:01
c.rogersyes, of course. :)18:02
karen:)18:02
c.rogersMartin would abstain automatically though.18:02
adam.belisits kind a crazy taht we are afiad of ppl who contribute to the project regulary but its totaly fine to do that to outsiders18:02
c.rogersYou wouldn't even have to ask him. He's very fair-minded.18:02
tedSo while I don't want to kill the conversation, it is probably outside of the \18:03
c.rogersI also don't see why the development of user-requested features should be political in any way, unless people make it so.18:03
tedLet me call a close there, and people can keep talking as they wish.18:03
Mcdid we have other agenda items ?18:04
doctormoHere18:04
ted===== END BOARD MEETING =====18:04

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