| pono | Hullo! | 18:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Mc | hello ! | 18:00 |
| ted | \u0001ACTION waves\u0001 Whoo! Hoo! Meeting time. Am I the only one here? | 18:03 |
| Mc | I don't think so | 18:04 |
| pono | I'm here :) | 18:04 |
| ted | Checking the RC bridge and it seems to be sending messages as well. I guess changing the week messed everyone up. | 18:05 |
| Mc | here it's mostly a non-working day | 18:05 |
| ted | Ah, so perhaps people are with family. Anyway, I don't have much to say other than the votes stuff on the mailing list. I'll try to get those closed and the docs updated. And the financial report is here: https://gitlab.com/-/snippets/2205952 There's basically no change. SFC is still working on changing payment processors, hoping for this month or next. | 18:06 |
| Mc | I don't have access | 18:07 |
| ted | Mc: Do you have any thing from the dev meetings? Mc: try again, sorry forgot to click the public box. | 18:07 |
| Mc | not particularly, there are interrogations about the status of \ | 18:08 |
| ted | Was that something they were working on, or a long term idea? I thought it was just something they thought they should do eventually. | 18:08 |
| Mc | it was ticket 13916 | 18:09 |
| pono | We are trying to track down all the updates to the Apple licensing agreements. It's been a while since we last took a look and need our legal counsel to review all the new documents. I'll post (or have Pam) a reply when we have reviewed them. | 18:09 |
| ted | pono: in the end though do you expect us to change the way we build binaries? Or just keep up on the legal stuff? | 18:09 |
| pono | I don't anticipate needing to make any changes, but can't guarantee that. | 18:10 |
| Mc | pono: thanks for the update :) | 18:10 |
| ted | K, cool. So we'll continue the way we are until we hear otherwise 😃 | 18:10 |
| pono | +1 | 18:11 |
| Mc | there was an idea to organize a small hackfest, maybe virtual, maybe in-person for europeans if possible in january to get to 1.1.2 | 18:11 |
| ted | Mc: Did we need any review for the Windows store? Oh, that'd be a cool idea Is LGM happening this year? | 18:11 |
| Mc | dunno yet well | 18:12 |
| ted | K, we might considering doing a hackfest near that as well. That's always been successful. | 18:12 |
| Mc | I think it will happen between april and june but there has been no announcement yet | 18:12 |
| Tav | Hi all, sorry to be late. | 18:13 |
| ted | Also, when is FOSDEM, would it make sense to do something near that? Not sure if many of our European devs go or not. | 18:13 |
| Mc | afaict nothing was updated since everything was ok for us @windows - there is still the question of having the account include the SFC fiscal information, and to see what can be done around monetization fosdem will be virtual ( https://fosdem.org/2022/news/2021-10-22-fosdem-online-2022/ ) (Feb 5-6) | 18:13 |
| ted | Ah, okay. Makes sense. What is the conference in Germany that @moini had a hackfest with? It was a few years back. | 18:14 |
| Mc | kielux ? ( https://kielux.de/ ) | 18:15 |
| ted | Sounds right. Just seeing if there's something we could work near, makes planning easier. | 18:16 |
| Tav | We might have a harder time finding space to share... | 18:17 |
| Mc | it would seem there is a talk on Inkscape by Maren tomorrow at Tux Tage | 18:18 |
| ted | Not sure about Europe, but at least in Texas that isn't much an issue anymore. | 18:18 |
| Tav | Germany's covid rate is climbing fast right now. | 18:18 |
| ted | Hmm, not in Germany then. | 18:19 |
| Tav | But by spring it will probably be down again. | 18:19 |
| ted | Yeah, it might make more sense to plan for Spring than Jan/Feb. | 18:19 |
| RdH | Sorry to intercept, I was in another appointment. macOS signing: if we are ok to continue as before, I'm going to file a reimbursement request for this year (June 2021-2022). | 18:20 |
| Mc | sure | 18:20 |
| ted | RdH, +1 I guess we need a board vote. I'll do that after I close those others. It is $100, correct? | 18:21 |
| RdH | 99 €, so it's a bit more in $ | 18:22 |
| ted | Ah, yes. I figured Apple charged in USD. We should be able to do Euros. So nice of them to tax us in local currencies 😉 | 18:22 |
| Mc | when 1€>1$ US companies tend to charge europeans with 1:1 rate | 18:23 |
| doctormo | Eh 1:1 is about right these days :-) | 18:23 |
| ted | I'd like to say that's to make the marketing budget cheaper, but I doubt that's the reason. | 18:24 |
| Mc | \ | 18:24 |
| ted | So WRT to the sprint/get together thing, the biggest thing we need is a planner. Is that you Mc? Or is someone else working on it. | 18:25 |
| Mc | currently it's just an idea, we'd need to gauge interest | 18:25 |
| doctormo | Conclusion from yesterday's meeting: No organiser available currently. | 18:25 |
| ted | K, is that a \ | 18:26 |
| doctormo | It's an administrative task, so I was going to ask you to ask Josh ;-) | 18:26 |
| ted | If we need plane tickets 8wk out, we're already middle of Jan at the absolute earliest. | 18:27 |
| doctormo | I don't think the idea is to have an in person event, but Mc, can you confirm? | 18:27 |
| Mc | I'd be open to invite people around, but mostly those who can cancel with minimal fees and issues, we can't know 2 month in advance how the situation will evolve | 18:28 |
| scislac[m] | So sorry to be running behind. Going to read the log real quick. | 18:29 |
| Tav | We talked about an online event, with maybe a little in person meeting at Mc's work place. | 18:29 |
| doctormo | So no planes needed, that's a net positive. | 18:29 |
| Mc | (+environment-friendly!) | 18:30 |
| doctormo | :-D | 18:30 |
| ted | Haha, yeah, that's the reason! | 18:30 |
| Tav | We also talked about paying for a pizza for each participant. | 18:30 |
| Mc | Tav is a few kilometers away if he's not in the US yes! | 18:30 |
| Tav | I'll almost certainly be going to Boston in January but don't know when. | 18:31 |
| ted | Yes, we've done that at work for team building events. I think what works best is something like an Uber Eats gift card. But I think that's a good idea. A shared meal, is always a good thing. Boston in January... not for the weather 🤣 | 18:31 |
| doctormo | For the Skiing | 18:32 |
| Tav | Downhill! | 18:32 |
| Mc | sunny days and -20°C | 18:32 |
| ted | Okay, seems like it is an idea that needs tracking right now but doesn't have actions associated with it yet. Is @ryangorley here to chat about Vectors stuff? | 18:33 |
| Tav | We need someone to manage the event. We talked about paying if necessary as running on-line events could be a lot of work. | 18:34 |
| ted | Hmm, okay, I wasn't invisioning something large enough to need a lot of management. Was thinking more hackfest. Open to hear what people are thinking through. s/through/though/ Seeing no Ryan, @doctormo do you have anything on the infrastructure agenda? Noticed the office instance is getting used for forms. | 18:36 |
| doctormo | For a general schedule, no structure, I think it should be possible to put together quickly. Although the last online hackfest had a lot more things, so it took more work. | 18:37 |
| ted | Well, Nextcloud, called office. Not Office capital. | 18:37 |
| doctormo | office.inkscape.org is working well, people are starting to use it. | 18:37 |
| Mc | nice (tell me if there are issues!) | 18:38 |
| ted | Cool, any luck on a password manager? | 18:38 |
| doctormo | https://inkscape.org/*membership/ has three new members, Chris, Maren and Sushant. I'm monitoring it closely. | 18:38 |
| doctormo | No update on password manager, it's a bust, there's very few options that fit the criteria for what we do. | 18:39 |
| ted | Uhg, so are just gonna keep doing the GPG thing? That's not beautiful. | 18:40 |
| doctormo | For now, it's hideous. open to suggestions. | 18:40 |
| ted | Does it make sense to use a non-OSS one then? Would Lastpass or something work? Not my first choice, but if there isn't an OSS solution... | 18:40 |
| Mc | meh (@non-OSS) | 18:41 |
| doctormo | I'm not open to running that myself, but I wouldn't oppose someone else stepping in to put it together. | 18:41 |
| RdH | There's also a password manager that integrates with our office.inkscape.org, I forgot to ask if that has ever been investigated | 18:41 |
| doctormo | @RdH I don't think we've investigated that. | 18:42 |
| ted | @doctormo, is there a list of requirements somewhere? | 18:42 |
| RdH | I'll look for a link. | 18:42 |
| pono | I've had some luck with Bitwarden https://bitwarden.com/ and pass https://www.passwordstore.org/ | 18:42 |
| scislac[m] | What was the issue with Bitwarden? | 18:43 |
| doctormo | BitWarden doesn't allow sharing of passwords, unless you buy the proprietary enterprise version. | 18:44 |
| doctormo | Makes it sort of pointless. | 18:44 |
| scislac[m] | Ahhhh | 18:44 |
| ted | Eh, bother. But that would be better than an all proprietary solution. | 18:45 |
| doctormo | So the goal isn't to provide contributors with a way to store their own passwords, the goal is: store and group manage access to shared passwords. | 18:45 |
| Mc | we can try the nextcloud app ( https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/passwords ) | 18:45 |
| doctormo | Mc: Lets! | 18:45 |
| RdH | That might be the thing that I was talking about | 18:46 |
| Mc | it looks good @doctormo I shared a password with you | 18:46 |
| doctormo | Works, thanks Mc | 18:47 |
| doctormo | OK problem solved. | 18:47 |
| doctormo | Also, awesome XKCD reference | 18:47 |
| Mc | hah, it's fun, it shows \ | 18:47 |
| ted | Heh, making the password FranceCanBeatBritanInFootball was clever. | 18:47 |
| Mc | there must be a search in a breached password database | 18:48 |
| doctormo | Thanks @RdH for the ref, I think we can play with this and see if it does the job. | 18:48 |
| ted | Cool, do we have any other infrastructure needs? Seems like we're doing well with the current hosting and VMs. Does that have a time limit? (or dollar amount, or whatever) | 18:49 |
| Mc | nope | 18:50 |
| ted | K, not gonna complain 😃 | 18:50 |
| Mc | all our current sponsors seem to be in a \ | 18:50 |
| ted | Okay, that was the last thing in the agenda, we've got 10 minutes. Anyone have anything additional? | 18:51 |
| RdH | At some point I might bring up macOS hardware (ARM) again... while Windell has provided me with the opportunity to build, I haven't gotten a working version of Inkscape yet. And debugging remotely via ssh... nope.\n(But no need to rush.) | 18:52 |
| doctormo | tshirt requests are being collected, a list review will happen after 22nd Nov, please fill out the form. A vote for money will happen after the list review. | 18:53 |
| ted | Makes sense. I think that'd be reasonable. (T-shirts and ARM OSX HW) | 18:53 |
| Mc | someone mentioned, like, today, a question about ARM windows hw | 18:53 |
| ted | Oh, is MS still doing that? I thought they gave up. | 18:54 |
| Mc | afaik windows arm runs 32b win executables without issues but it's a translation, like rosetta thing | 18:54 |
| ted | I'll mention Inkscape runs well on the RPi 4 under Linux 😉 | 18:54 |
| doctormo | We're getting very close to request the funding for the paid macOS speed problem. @RdH do you have any update on that? | 18:55 |
| Mc | ted: iirc samsung does it with a snapdragon 8x (arm) chip | 18:55 |
| ted | Mc: I thought they had a \ | 18:56 |
| Mc | yup | 18:57 |
| doctormo | ted: That's a very Gtk centric solution. | 18:58 |
| Mc | as long as it works… | 18:58 |
| doctormo | We're nowhere near a Gtk4 transition, we have Gtk3 problems that are *very serious* today. We could quit macOS releases for a few years, but we should consider fixing the issue in Gtk3. | 18:59 |
| RdH | Or you're already at the main dilemma. | 18:59 |
| ted | I'm not familiar, but I thought GTK3 to 4 was mostly about some deprecated APIs. How many of those do we use? | 18:59 |
| RdH | Tav has been investigating, it's a lot | 19:00 |
| doctormo | It's not a small transition for us. | 19:00 |
| RdH | Like toolbars and stuff that will have to be reworked completely | 19:00 |
| doctormo | But Actions moves us a great deal. | 19:00 |
| Mc | imo we're nearer to the gtk4 transition because we have a kind of idea of what has to be done, while I'd have no idea what is needed to make gtk3 fast for macOS if it appears that it's \ | 19:01 |
| RdH | Should we schedule a dedicated BBB meeting talking about that dilemma? | 19:01 |
| Mc | we could invite a gtk dev | 19:01 |
| doctormo | I'd be interested to attend RdH, let me know if you need help getting a BBB link or cal set up. | 19:02 |
| ted | I guess my comment would be is that we need some analysis on the two paths first. A meeting doesn't result in increased understanding of the problem. | 19:03 |
| RdH | It's an important decision about the direction we take, I think as many core developers should be present as possible | 19:03 |
| Tav | Sorry, I had to play chauffeur. The GTK4 transition will be a ton of work. | 19:03 |
| Mc | ( ted: @re:arm, it was https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-book-s/specs/ ) | 19:03 |
| re | re | 19:03 |
| RdH | It won't be a technical discussion IMHO | 19:03 |
| Mc | it might be easier to contract red hat to help us migrate :D | 19:04 |
| RdH | They can be contracted? | 19:04 |
| Mc | \ | 19:04 |
| RdH | :) | 19:04 |
| Mc | it's a company | 19:04 |
| ted | Mc: interesting, wonder what the sales are like. IBM has plenty of consultants. | 19:05 |
| RdH | Since no volunteer showed up - a few people said \ | 19:05 |
| Mc | pono: is such a thing even possible ? (asking red hat if it's possible to pay their gtk experts to help us migrate to gtk4) | 19:06 |
| ted | I imagine someone like Igalia would be more willing to take such a contract. | 19:06 |
| Tav | Gtk4 has some great features but it also has some major shortcoming that we'll need to workaround. I'm dealing with one now (tooltips or status bar updates for menu items). | 19:06 |
| Tav | I've solved the no icons in menus problem. Each of these things takes days to figure out. | 19:07 |
| pono | I don't have much experience dealing with Red Hat but can look into it. Igalia was the group that game to mind for me as well | 19:07 |
| ted | K, something that needs further investigation. | 19:09 |
| Mc | in france we also have linagora | 19:09 |
| pono | \u0001ACTION will check with Karen and get back to you\u0001 | 19:10 |
| Mc | but afaik the main gtk people are at red hat | 19:10 |
| ted | Yes, GTK has always been RH's library. But the other folks have been contracting GTK apps for a while. I think we're done with what we'll get done in this meeting today. A couple of exciting things to look into. Go ahead and tag ==== END OF MEETING ==== though Folks are welcome to keep chatting of course. Thank you everyone! | 19:11 |
| doctormo | this rocket does not stop. | 19:13 |
| Mc | :rocket: | 19:14 |
| pono | cheers :) | 19:14 |
| doctormo | Thanks for coming pono | 19:20 |
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